The Tokyo 2020/1 Olympics Thread *spoilers* (not the road race cycling)
Comments
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My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.0 -
It’s quite arrogant to presume you know what nationality the athletes really want to compete under.morstar said:
My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.
I am reminded of the US’ most preeminent Russian foreign affairs expert - has worked under 3 different administrations to advise the US on Putin et al.
She’s unmistakably from The North in the UK and speaks with a thick Northern accent. Testified against Trump.
Made it quite clear she had rejected Britain where she felt her regional accent and class would have held her back. For her, “we” and “us” is America who have given her the opportunity she would never have in the UK and the UK is very much “you” and “they”.
It’s not up to you to define what nationality someone makes you feel they are.0 -
You keepentioning something that happened 40 years ago.
It isn't that widespread a problem. There are not many world class athletes mercenary enough to become Bahraini in order to compete.
It seems to be most common in cricket and football, to be honest.0 -
Ahh FFS, you’re being deliberately obtuse now.rick_chasey said:
It’s quite arrogant to presume you know what nationality the athletes really want to compete under.morstar said:
My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.
No I don’t know that and I haven’t called out any individual athlete. In the presence of fierce competition for places, people will explore any and all avenues to compete. See doping for example.
I’m going out on my bike.0 -
It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.0 -
For Pyeongchang, Korea naturalised 16 athletes in order to boost its medal hopes. It is not uncommon.0
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lol - I wonder why they chose three years?kingstongraham said:It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.
Representing more than one country is a complete nonsense0 -
I am going to assume you do not have international heritage?morstar said:
Ahh FFS, you’re being deliberately obtuse now.rick_chasey said:
It’s quite arrogant to presume you know what nationality the athletes really want to compete under.morstar said:
My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.
No I don’t know that and I haven’t called out any individual athlete. In the presence of fierce competition for places, people will explore any and all avenues to compete. See doping for example.
I’m going out on my bike.
Nationality and identity can be and often is fluid!
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What do you think the Belarus sprinter should do next?surrey_commuter said:
lol - I wonder why they chose three years?kingstongraham said:It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.
Representing more than one country is a complete nonsense0 -
Typically they are athletes not good enough to represent their own country, so see it as a good way to go the Olympics and continue a career.kingstongraham said:It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.0 -
You are completely missing his point.rick_chasey said:
I am going to assume you do not have international heritage?morstar said:
Ahh FFS, you’re being deliberately obtuse now.rick_chasey said:
It’s quite arrogant to presume you know what nationality the athletes really want to compete under.morstar said:
My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.
No I don’t know that and I haven’t called out any individual athlete. In the presence of fierce competition for places, people will explore any and all avenues to compete. See doping for example.
I’m going out on my bike.
Nationality and identity can be and often is fluid!1 -
I would certainly feel a strong affinity for any country willing to give me 500k a year to run under their flag.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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You are completely missing his. This is a baby/bath water issue.TheBigBean said:
You are completely missing his point.rick_chasey said:
I am going to assume you do not have international heritage?morstar said:
Ahh FFS, you’re being deliberately obtuse now.rick_chasey said:
It’s quite arrogant to presume you know what nationality the athletes really want to compete under.morstar said:
My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.
No I don’t know that and I haven’t called out any individual athlete. In the presence of fierce competition for places, people will explore any and all avenues to compete. See doping for example.
I’m going out on my bike.
Nationality and identity can be and often is fluid!0 -
Singapore is where you want to be, but very performance driven. £500k for winning a gold medal at the Olympics.DeVlaeminck said:I would certainly feel a strong affinity for any country willing to give me 500k a year to run under their flag.
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Not all, it's why I can tell he is missing morstar's point of view.First.Aspect said:
You are completely missing his. This is a baby/bath water issue.TheBigBean said:
You are completely missing his point.rick_chasey said:
I am going to assume you do not have international heritage?morstar said:
Ahh FFS, you’re being deliberately obtuse now.rick_chasey said:
It’s quite arrogant to presume you know what nationality the athletes really want to compete under.morstar said:
My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.
No I don’t know that and I haven’t called out any individual athlete. In the presence of fierce competition for places, people will explore any and all avenues to compete. See doping for example.
I’m going out on my bike.
Nationality and identity can be and often is fluid!0 -
Plenty opportunities to win European medals as the 5th best in lots of countries outside Europe. And get paid for training, and get medical support.TheBigBean said:
Typically they are athletes not good enough to represent their own country, so see it as a good way to go the Olympics and continue a career.kingstongraham said:It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.0 -
Do you always assume people who don't agree are missing the point?TheBigBean said:
Not all, it's why I can tell he is missing morstar's point of view.First.Aspect said:
You are completely missing his. This is a baby/bath water issue.TheBigBean said:
You are completely missing his point.rick_chasey said:
I am going to assume you do not have international heritage?morstar said:
Ahh FFS, you’re being deliberately obtuse now.rick_chasey said:
It’s quite arrogant to presume you know what nationality the athletes really want to compete under.morstar said:
My argument has been that in the marathon for example, Kenya should have more places so that flags of convenience are less of a thing. This could be at the expense of other sports being dropped as the IOC are keen to manage athlete numbers.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
As it is mainly me discussing this from an anti perspective, it doesn’t really fit your portrayal of my argument.
I would rather the best marathon runners from East African nations compete under their own flags at the expense of second rate football and tennis tournaments.
No I don’t know that and I haven’t called out any individual athlete. In the presence of fierce competition for places, people will explore any and all avenues to compete. See doping for example.
I’m going out on my bike.
Nationality and identity can be and often is fluid!
The "problem" as such is pretty easy to understand, but Morstar doesn't have a solution that isn't rather worse than the problem, as far as I can tell at least.0 -
You've lost me there.kingstongraham said:
Plenty opportunities to win European medals as the 5th best in lots of countries outside Europe. And get paid for training, and get medical support.TheBigBean said:
Typically they are athletes not good enough to represent their own country, so see it as a good way to go the Olympics and continue a career.kingstongraham said:It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.0 -
I hope they are more aware of the biggest problems in their life than you.kingstongraham said:
What do you think the Belarus sprinter should do next?surrey_commuter said:
lol - I wonder why they chose three years?kingstongraham said:It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.
Representing more than one country is a complete nonsense
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I believe he means that if the 5th best Kenyan distance runners became European they would clean up in European competitionsTheBigBean said:
You've lost me there.kingstongraham said:
Plenty opportunities to win European medals as the 5th best in lots of countries outside Europe. And get paid for training, and get medical support.TheBigBean said:
Typically they are athletes not good enough to represent their own country, so see it as a good way to go the Olympics and continue a career.kingstongraham said:It's also not as easy as it used to be, once you have competed in a regional or world event for your country to then change nationality and go to the Olympics for a new country.
2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant
IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may
be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by
the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.
Would take a lot of money to make a world beating athlete give up on competing internationally for 3 years and then you need faith that they will come back as a world beating athlete.
Sports where it's not all about the olympics/worlds/continental champs, probably easier.0 -
Great Britain - who sent more female athletes than male for the first time - finished the Games with Lauren Price's boxing gold and Laura Kenny as flagbearer. But they were the only country in the top 10 for women's events in Tokyo whose female competitors have won less than 30% of their country's gold medals.
All male team/trans for Paris 2024 on the cards.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
While it may well have been a way around an embargo, changing your nationality is hardly a trivial thing. Surely 'legally' is the only way that counts anyway. Nationality is a legal designation, not something you 'feel'.morstar said:
Someone competing for the nation they actually consider home rather than one that will gain them Olympic entry.rick_chasey said:Wtf is a true flag
Don’t confuse this with anti-immigration. This is about sporting flags of convenience.
e.g. Zola Budd could in no way be considered British other than legally. Her heart, soul and residence was South African.
I’d rather she could compete as a South African than a fake Brit. I am pretty sure she felt the same. For clarity, her motivation was to get round a SA sporting embargo rather than athlete numbers.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How is that any different from getting the bods to develop an even more aerodynamic bike. Or for that matter, my colleagues applying for British citizenship so they just have less hassle with their everyday lives.morstar said:
To be fair, I don’t really think it is an IOC or sport governing bodies issue.*pblakeney said:
I don't get the objection.surrey_commuter said:
Wiggins grew up in Kilburn. Born in Belgium with an Australian father.pblakeney said:
British father so as British as Brad, or Chris, or....surrey_commuter said:
Sky Brown is a far more recent examplepblakeney said:Remember Zola Budd?
Froome is Kenyan. Could have competed for Kenya.
Has Sky Brown ever set foot in the UK? I don't know. Do you?
You either agree with the rules for everyone, or object to the rules for everyone.
If somebody has a legal nationality, that is all the IOC can go by.
I guess the issue is more about the athletes doing it solely for Olympic ambition and the adoptive nations encouraging it.
When somebody changes nationality solely for sporting reasons, it is hardly in the spirit of the competition.
*Other than where athlete number limitations overly restrict participation of very strong nations.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm not sure that in every case the person naturalises for the country. For example, Elizabeth Swaney tried to compete for Venezuela and then switched to Hungary which is where her grandparents were born. I don't think she actually legally became Hungarian, because she already met the criteria. In her case, she was after a country that would allow her to go to the Olympics. She's not a very good skier.rjsterry said:
While it may well have been a way around an embargo, changing your nationality is hardly a trivial thing. Surely 'legally' is the only way that counts anyway. Nationality is a legal designation, not something you 'feel'.morstar said:
Someone competing for the nation they actually consider home rather than one that will gain them Olympic entry.rick_chasey said:Wtf is a true flag
Don’t confuse this with anti-immigration. This is about sporting flags of convenience.
e.g. Zola Budd could in no way be considered British other than legally. Her heart, soul and residence was South African.
I’d rather she could compete as a South African than a fake Brit. I am pretty sure she felt the same. For clarity, her motivation was to get round a SA sporting embargo rather than athlete numbers.
In contrast, someone like Alexander Gamelin had no connection whatsoever with Korea beyond finding a US born dance partner with a Korean background. As a result, he needed to naturalise as Korean in order to compete for them. He did show a lot of passion for the country, but unfortunately split up with his partner shortly afterwards. Not sure whether her new partner will become Korean now.
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kingstongraham said:
Singapore is where you want to be, but very performance driven. £500k for winning a gold medal at the Olympics.DeVlaeminck said:I would certainly feel a strong affinity for any country willing to give me 500k a year to run under their flag.
Ok I can see a flaw in my plan.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
Not at all. It is certainly true that some posters more regularly miss the point than others though. For example, I remember you implicitly arguing that an elephant was just over twice the size of an ant.First.Aspect said:
Do you always assume people who don't agree are missing the point?0 -
I think you're missing the original point i.e. that richer nations may try to entice talent from poorer nations simply as a way to increase their medal haul. I would suggest this already happens in some sports (rugby being an obvious example for me). It's more or less the opposite of the point that you seem concerned about. No-one is suggesting that someone who is a citizen of a country shouldn't represent that country at the Olympics, merely that we shouldn't get to a position where people are getting citizenship simply to represent that country in sport.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...3 -
It was utterly shite. I was away for pretty much the whole thing so only had access to BBC coverage and I'm not sure if the ES / Discovery coverage was any better. One thing I found really annoying was watching things and not knowing if it was live or not, as someone else on here said surely they could have provided a 'live' caption for the live coverage. I watched a lot but it felt like it was the same events 4 or 5 times in a day with very little in the way of highlights of any other action. From a UK perspective the time zone really didn't help but I know that there will be issues for some part of the world wherever it is held. Australia tends to work out better as at least you can catch some live sport late at night if you're prepared to stay up for a bit, it felt like a lot of the live action was happening in the early hours.rick_chasey said:What is a much more pressing issue was the coverage which was the worst I’ve seen since I can remember following it properly which is Greece 2004.
I get the licensing issues screwed the bbc but beyond that what they did have they made a pig’s ear out of. Far too much talking about the sport over showing it.
Some of it can be explained away with the hosts not being there - hard to add colour when you’re not in the thick of it. But then why bother? Stick to the sport and the commentators who are there!
In addition, accepting that the organisers had some really difficult issues to overcome due to the pandemic, there were a few things that felt badly organised too. The boat incident in the triathlon, having to rearrange the time and location of the football final as it had been originally arranged when temperatures were at their worst and the 'external' events such as the triathlon didn't really showcase the city at its best (at least I assume they weren't the best parts of the city they could show).0 -
Thank you. You have summarised my position better than I appear to have done.Pross said:
I think you're missing the original point i.e. that richer nations may try to entice talent from poorer nations simply as a way to increase their medal haul. I would suggest this already happens in some sports (rugby being an obvious example for me). It's more or less the opposite of the point that you seem concerned about. No-one is suggesting that someone who is a citizen of a country shouldn't represent that country at the Olympics, merely that we shouldn't get to a position where people are getting citizenship simply to represent that country in sport.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...
I haven’t proposed any solutions or have any expectations this will stop.
I was simply discussing the topic on a discussion forum and can’t even recall what triggered the discussion.
It’s a behaviour I don’t consider to be in the spirit of sport and that is all.
I can legitimately hold opinions that I know will no have no impact on the world.0 -
It isn't the opposite of the point, its the inevitable consequence of it. We all know it happens, but there are objective rules that govern the extent to which it happens. For every "but Zola Budd" there are a number of legitimate examples. Such as, I don't know, Brad Wiggins, Andrew Strauss, John Barnes or Joe Bugner.Pross said:
I think you're missing the original point i.e. that richer nations may try to entice talent from poorer nations simply as a way to increase their medal haul. I would suggest this already happens in some sports (rugby being an obvious example for me). It's more or less the opposite of the point that you seem concerned about. No-one is suggesting that someone who is a citizen of a country shouldn't represent that country at the Olympics, merely that we shouldn't get to a position where people are getting citizenship simply to represent that country in sport.First.Aspect said:Always makes me feel like the people who want to have this debate somehow have an undefined "British enough" litmus test that they apply.
Personally, to avoid unintended consequences of determining how British someone is by feel, or the how much are you like me test, I would be in favour or a set of objective rules accepted across the world.
Oh, wait...0
