Macroeconomics, the economy, inflation etc. *likely to be very dull*

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Do you not think a more likely scenario is Britain ends up in a sort of economic purgatory like the Japanese economy?

Rather than panicking about sovereign default.

more worried about an ever increasing amount of govt expenditure going on servicing debt.

In a similar vein I think there is trouble ahead when punters figure out how much of their council tax is used to fund pensions.

It's less than the historic average on debt servicing.

but leaping like a salmon

TheBigBean

You continue to ignore the amount of the debt service that they receive back from the Bank of England.

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Do you not think a more likely scenario is Britain ends up in a sort of economic purgatory like the Japanese economy?

Rather than panicking about sovereign default.

more worried about an ever increasing amount of govt expenditure going on servicing debt.

In a similar vein I think there is trouble ahead when punters figure out how much of their council tax is used to fund pensions.

It's less than the historic average on debt servicing.

but leaping like a salmon

It is probably the best performance a Western economy has had through a highest category economic disaster ever. What on earth do you expect?

Have you forgotten quite how cataclysmic corona was/is?

It makes the GFC look like a walk in the park.

The global response of vast amounts of stimulus, either direct or via furlough, has kept the long-term damage down to a minimum. Of course there is a price to pay.

But had the response been preoccupied by concerns about the level of debt servicing the whole thing would be a disaster.

I really think you're overly distracted by this, to the point you miss the scale of the rest of it all.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

You continue to ignore the amount of the debt service that they receive back from the Bank of England.

I am convinced that is the central bank equivalent of a Ponzi scheme.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Do you not think a more likely scenario is Britain ends up in a sort of economic purgatory like the Japanese economy?

Rather than panicking about sovereign default.

more worried about an ever increasing amount of govt expenditure going on servicing debt.

In a similar vein I think there is trouble ahead when punters figure out how much of their council tax is used to fund pensions.

It's less than the historic average on debt servicing.

but leaping like a salmon

It is probably the best performance a Western economy has had through a highest category economic disaster ever. What on earth do you expect?

Have you forgotten quite how cataclysmic corona was/is?

It makes the GFC look like a walk in the park.

The global response of vast amounts of stimulus, either direct or via furlough, has kept the long-term damage down to a minimum. Of course there is a price to pay.

But had the response been preoccupied by concerns about the level of debt servicing the whole thing would be a disaster.

I really think you're overly distracted by this, to the point you miss the scale of the rest of it all.

and yet again you create a straw man argument that I have never made

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Do you not think a more likely scenario is Britain ends up in a sort of economic purgatory like the Japanese economy?

Rather than panicking about sovereign default.

more worried about an ever increasing amount of govt expenditure going on servicing debt.

In a similar vein I think there is trouble ahead when punters figure out how much of their council tax is used to fund pensions.

It's less than the historic average on debt servicing.

but leaping like a salmon

It is probably the best performance a Western economy has had through a highest category economic disaster ever. What on earth do you expect?

Have you forgotten quite how cataclysmic corona was/is?

It makes the GFC look like a walk in the park.

The global response of vast amounts of stimulus, either direct or via furlough, has kept the long-term damage down to a minimum. Of course there is a price to pay.

But had the response been preoccupied by concerns about the level of debt servicing the whole thing would be a disaster.

I really think you're overly distracted by this, to the point you miss the scale of the rest of it all.

and yet again you create a straw man argument that I have never made

I don't think it is straw man. We're still coming out of a recession, so of course govt debt servicing is increasing. I mean, duh. That's the pay off.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

You continue to ignore the amount of the debt service that they receive back from the Bank of England.

I am convinced that is the central bank equivalent of a Ponzi scheme.

Whether you agree with it or not £895bn of the UK government debt doesn't really exist and is therefore interest free. Any position considered should net these off.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Do you not think a more likely scenario is Britain ends up in a sort of economic purgatory like the Japanese economy?

Rather than panicking about sovereign default.

more worried about an ever increasing amount of govt expenditure going on servicing debt.

In a similar vein I think there is trouble ahead when punters figure out how much of their council tax is used to fund pensions.

It's less than the historic average on debt servicing.

but leaping like a salmon

It is probably the best performance a Western economy has had through a highest category economic disaster ever. What on earth do you expect?

Have you forgotten quite how cataclysmic corona was/is?

It makes the GFC look like a walk in the park.

The global response of vast amounts of stimulus, either direct or via furlough, has kept the long-term damage down to a minimum. Of course there is a price to pay.

But had the response been preoccupied by concerns about the level of debt servicing the whole thing would be a disaster.

I really think you're overly distracted by this, to the point you miss the scale of the rest of it all.

and yet again you create a straw man argument that I have never made

I don't think it is straw man. We're still coming out of a recession, so of course govt debt servicing is increasing. I mean, duh. That's the pay off.

what about all the other deficits, such as the £60bn in the pre-covid budget?

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1468856688631504898?s=21

TheBigBean

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

That is too logical to be implemented.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

Only if downsizing (in value).

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

pblakeney

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Possibly. Then consider council tax, heating, cleaning, inheritance tax, etc.
Buy the home you want that you can afford, not an investment.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

I wouldn't have thought so, they would still be getting money. Much like saying there is no point in working because of income tax.

surrey_commuter

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Possibly. Then consider council tax, heating, cleaning, inheritance tax, etc.
Buy the home you want that you can afford, not an investment.

there is already a problem of people being reluctant to downsize despite all of those reasons, I just see adding a hefty tax bill as making it worse

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

I wouldn't have thought so, they would still be getting money. Much like saying there is no point in working because of income tax.

I am struggling to find the data but I read somewhere that since they bumped up stamp duty there has been a huge decrease in property sales.
Is it going to be a tax on the difference between purchase and sold prices or will you allow deductions for improvements/maintenance?

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

I wouldn't have thought so, they would still be getting money. Much like saying there is no point in working because of income tax.

I am struggling to find the data but I read somewhere that since they bumped up stamp duty there has been a huge decrease in property sales.
Is it going to be a tax on the difference between purchase and sold prices or will you allow deductions for improvements/maintenance?

The same as it is for all other properties.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

rjsterry

...

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

Taxing profit rarely distorts a market.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

I fail to see the logic in struggling financially with an oversized property that could be sold for a profit.

surrey_commuter

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

I fail to see the logic in struggling financially with an oversized property that could be sold for a profit.

thinking with the heart and not the head

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

I fail to see the logic in struggling financially with an oversized property that could be sold for a profit.

thinking with the heart and not the head

I struggle to understand this. Imagine someone is sitting on a £1m capital gain. They could sell, spend £300k on a nice warm flat, take £700k in profit less £140k capital gains (£560k of cash for them), then go on an annual cruise and live it up. Or they could be cold, poor and pay £200k capital gains tax when they die anyway.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

I fail to see the logic in struggling financially with an oversized property that could be sold for a profit.

thinking with the heart and not the head

I struggle to understand this. Imagine someone is sitting on a £1m capital gain. They could sell, spend £300k on a nice warm flat, take £700k in profit less £140k capital gains (£560k of cash for them), then go on an annual cruise and live it up. Or they could be cold, poor and pay £200k capital gains tax when they die anyway.

cold and poor living in the house that they have lived in for 50 years and that their children now bring their grandchildren to stay with all of their friends around them along with everything that they know.

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

I fail to see the logic in struggling financially with an oversized property that could be sold for a profit.

thinking with the heart and not the head

I struggle to understand this. Imagine someone is sitting on a £1m capital gain. They could sell, spend £300k on a nice warm flat, take £700k in profit less £140k capital gains (£560k of cash for them), then go on an annual cruise and live it up. Or they could be cold, poor and pay £200k capital gains tax when they die anyway.

cold and poor living in the house that they have lived in for 50 years and that their children now bring their grandchildren to stay with all of their friends around them along with everything that they know.

Isn’t that what equity release loans are for?

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

I fail to see the logic in struggling financially with an oversized property that could be sold for a profit.

People don't act logically. It's their home. Probably the one inanimate object they feel most strongly about.

pblakeney

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

If I ruled, there would be capital gains tax on main residences, but you would be allowed to defer it when buying a new more expensive property.

You'd only pay it when you sold the property then?

As above, when downsizing.

would hat not make people even less likely to downsize?

Indeed. It would add a massive distortion to the property market and ensure even more elderly people end up with oversized properties that they can't afford to maintain. Just look at the effort people went to to avoid a bit of extra stamp duty a few years back.

I fail to see the logic in struggling financially with an oversized property that could be sold for a profit.

thinking with the heart and not the head

I struggle to understand this. Imagine someone is sitting on a £1m capital gain. They could sell, spend £300k on a nice warm flat, take £700k in profit less £140k capital gains (£560k of cash for them), then go on an annual cruise and live it up. Or they could be cold, poor and pay £200k capital gains tax when they die anyway.

cold and poor living in the house that they have lived in for 50 years and that their children now bring their grandchildren to stay with all of their friends around them along with everything that they know.

Yeahbut, the tax being discussed would have zero effect on that thought process.
Their choice.