Macroeconomics, the economy, inflation etc. *likely to be very dull*

1…1617192122…65

Comments

  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144

  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    I just think we are coming up Short and are looking at a Fall.

    Post Musk Hoover it!!!!!!!!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    Big old US infrastructure spend there, completely worth it though, brilliant. I just fear most of ours would be p1ss1ng down the drain, akin to HS2.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    edited July 2022
    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    edited July 2022
    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    edited July 2022
    focuszing723 said:

    If interest rates are low it encourages people to take on debt rather than save, isn't that obvious!?

  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    Ummm, Government are there to govern the population, you don't think that is linked.

    Why do you think the Governor of the BoE said "Don't ask for a pay rise"!??!?!?!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    Did you not say that we can borrow as much as we like because we have our own currency and set our own interest rates?

    What if you have index linked gilts?

    Is there a level of debt cost that does matter?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.
    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    That's point is though Rick, that's a dangerous mindset to have. Which you wouldn't entertain yourself. It's as reckless as saying interest rates are going to be low for the foreseeable future, so don't worry about mounting up debt...

    !! YOU WOULD NOT DO THAT YOURSELF !!

    P O L O

    Why do you have one? Because you are sensible and it's good enough.

  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    That's point is though Rick, that's a dangerous mindset to have. Which you wouldn't entertain yourself. It's as reckless as saying interest rates are going to be low for the foreseeable future, so don't worry about mounting up debt...

    !! YOU WOULD NOT DO THAT YOURSELF !!

    P O L O

    Why do you have one? Because you are sensible and it's good enough.

    People buy houses all the time, fully aware that interest won't stay at ~1% for the life of the mortgage.

    I bet the average homeowners level of debt servicing vs wage growth is pretty shocking once you add in cars and credit cards.

    Not very relevant to a country though.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited July 2022
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
    Well after 15 years of no growth I think you can’t be sure there will be growth in the future without some substantial changes in policy.

    But that’s what happens when you stop prioritising sustainable growth for a decade in the hunt for austerity.

    To use Focuszing logic, if I’m confident I can make loads of profits by borrowing to invest in a bunch of machines, I would borrow, as long as the lending costs didn’t wipe out my profit margin.
    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    Pog didn't win by the way, as predicted. Interest rates will say low forever...
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
    Well after 15 years of no growth I think you can’t be sure there will be growth in the future without some substantial changes in policy.

    But that’s what happens when you stop prioritising sustainable growth for a decade in the hunt for austerity.

    To use Focuszing logic, if I’m confident I can make loads of profits by borrowing to invest in a bunch of machines, I would borrow, as long as the lending costs didn’t wipe out my profit margin.
    No, no, no...

    I don't trust the Government to p1ss it up against the wall on a load of useless projects, very different (HS2 for one). Did you miss my mention of the Hoover Dam as an example of a good infrastructure spend?

    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    Did you not say that we can borrow as much as we like because we have our own currency and set our own interest rates?

    What if you have index linked gilts?

    Is there a level of debt cost that does matter?
    My point was that the limitations you or I have on our borrowing do not apply to governments. A different set of limitations apply to them. An important one being maintaining the value of the currency.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
    Well after 15 years of no growth I think you can’t be sure there will be growth in the future without some substantial changes in policy.

    But that’s what happens when you stop prioritising sustainable growth for a decade in the hunt for austerity.

    To use Focuszing logic, if I’m confident I can make loads of profits by borrowing to invest in a bunch of machines, I would borrow, as long as the lending costs didn’t wipe out my profit margin.
    No, no, no...

    I don't trust the Government to p1ss it up against the wall on a load of useless projects, very different (HS2 for one). Did you miss my mention of the Hoover Dam as an example of a good infrastructure spend?

    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
    Not sure why you think HS2 is useless other than it not being a Musk project. And I hear the trains are powered by horses.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
    Well after 15 years of no growth I think you can’t be sure there will be growth in the future without some substantial changes in policy.

    But that’s what happens when you stop prioritising sustainable growth for a decade in the hunt for austerity.

    To use Focuszing logic, if I’m confident I can make loads of profits by borrowing to invest in a bunch of machines, I would borrow, as long as the lending costs didn’t wipe out my profit margin.
    No, no, no...

    I don't trust the Government to p1ss it up against the wall on a load of useless projects, very different (HS2 for one). Did you miss my mention of the Hoover Dam as an example of a good infrastructure spend?

    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
    Not sure why you think HS2 is useless other than it not being a Musk project. And I hear the trains are powered by horses.
    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
    Well after 15 years of no growth I think you can’t be sure there will be growth in the future without some substantial changes in policy.

    But that’s what happens when you stop prioritising sustainable growth for a decade in the hunt for austerity.

    To use Focuszing logic, if I’m confident I can make loads of profits by borrowing to invest in a bunch of machines, I would borrow, as long as the lending costs didn’t wipe out my profit margin.
    No, no, no...

    I don't trust the Government to p1ss it up against the wall on a load of useless projects, very different (HS2 for one). Did you miss my mention of the Hoover Dam as an example of a good infrastructure spend?

    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
    Not sure why you think HS2 is useless other than it not being a Musk project. And I hear the trains are powered by horses.
    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144

    Look, I'm getting bored now. Just know I'm right and warned you bunch of pot head horse eaters that interest rates can go back up "HISTORIC NORMS" charts n' stuff.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Did actually have some horse this week. Nomnomnom
    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    edited July 2022
    rick_chasey said:

    Did actually have some horse this week. Nomnomnom

    Fookin horse eaters, I bet you dragged on the erb too.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    focuszing723 said:


    Look, I'm getting bored now. Just know I'm right and warned you bunch of pot head horse eaters that interest rates can go back up "HISTORIC NORMS" charts n' stuff.

    Should you not be outraged because someone has been scribbling with marker pen on your horse.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,605
    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    Ummm, Government are there to govern the population, you don't think that is linked.

    Why do you think the Governor of the BoE said "Don't ask for a pay rise"!??!?!?!
    Possibly because he's massively out of touch?
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    edited July 2022
    I
    Jezyboy said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Doesn’t matter if you’re growing faster

    A Ferrari goes quicker and is more swanky than a Polo, why don't you practice what you preach?
    If I’m focused on becoming rich, then a Ferrari can be an option.

    If I focus on cost saving I’ll never have a Ferrari as I’ll only be able to afford a polo. Right?
    Gawd, you've just kicked yourself in the b0ll0cks with that. So you don't get into debt yourself, but you want others too?

    Top of the pyramid stuff.
    Please stop muddling government borrowing with personal debt. They are not the same thing at all.
    Please stop forgetting the example it sets.
    It doesn't. Try issuing your own currency. And setting your own interest rate.
    -76 '
    I wish I believed in MMT, like religion it must be very comforting
    It's not about believing anything: just avoiding the false comparisons between personal borrowing and government borrowing.

    There's no need to keep conflating the two and the comparison adds to misunderstanding. It encourages people to talk governments 'spending other people's money' or 'taxpayers' money'.
    Ummm, Government are there to govern the population, you don't think that is linked.

    Why do you think the Governor of the BoE said "Don't ask for a pay rise"!??!?!?!
    Possibly because he's massively out of touch?
    It was a daft thing to say in public. It doesn't change the fact he's right though.

    Weeeeeeee, let's all have an inflationary pay rise. Ummmmm...
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    focuszing723 said:

    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
    Well after 15 years of no growth I think you can’t be sure there will be growth in the future without some substantial changes in policy.

    But that’s what happens when you stop prioritising sustainable growth for a decade in the hunt for austerity.

    To use Focuszing logic, if I’m confident I can make loads of profits by borrowing to invest in a bunch of machines, I would borrow, as long as the lending costs didn’t wipe out my profit margin.
    No, no, no...

    I don't trust the Government to p1ss it up against the wall on a load of useless projects, very different (HS2 for one). Did you miss my mention of the Hoover Dam as an example of a good infrastructure spend?

    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
    Not sure why you think HS2 is useless other than it not being a Musk project. And I hear the trains are powered by horses.
    rjsterry said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Yes there is but it depends on growth and how much debt is inflation linked.

    So if you can convince yourself that we are due some unprecedented growth then it is ok to carry on borrowing?

    If my sums are right then 20% of Govt spending is on debt and you are happy, what is your upper limit?

    For the sake of realism assume growth stays at 2%
    Well after 15 years of no growth I think you can’t be sure there will be growth in the future without some substantial changes in policy.

    But that’s what happens when you stop prioritising sustainable growth for a decade in the hunt for austerity.

    To use Focuszing logic, if I’m confident I can make loads of profits by borrowing to invest in a bunch of machines, I would borrow, as long as the lending costs didn’t wipe out my profit margin.
    No, no, no...

    I don't trust the Government to p1ss it up against the wall on a load of useless projects, very different (HS2 for one). Did you miss my mention of the Hoover Dam as an example of a good infrastructure spend?

    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
    Not sure why you think HS2 is useless other than it not being a Musk project. And I hear the trains are powered by horses.
    How many billions were lost due to feckless grants during Covid? They've just been written off!
    Lots. What has that to do with HS2 which was underway long before Covid existed.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    focuszing723 said:


    Look, I'm getting bored now. Just know I'm right and warned you bunch of pot head horse eaters that interest rates can go back up "HISTORIC NORMS" charts n' stuff.

    If BR existed in 1821 you would be insisting that interest rates *had* to be 5% because they had been that for the last hundred years. There is no trend that applies for the whole of that graph. All it tells you is that governments adjust the rate to make things go faster or slow them down.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    focuszing723 said:


    That fact that those salient charts don't get at least 10 likes proves the horse eatery round these parts, not to mention pot.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    What’s with the weed obsession?

    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,144
    rick_chasey said:

    What’s with the weed obsession?

    Wasn't that the libs main policy during the last election?

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