TDF 2021: Stage 9, Cluses > Tignes 144.9 km **Spoilers**

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Comments

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    mididoctors said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Probably didn't get enough on here for that ride because of everything going on behind, but O'connor managed his obvious issues with the cold and must have got his feeding perfect. Dropped on the descent, shaking out his hands in proper cold weather gloves, to come back and win by 5 minutes was a great ride.

    The weather was a big factor over two stages . We may be underestimating its effect on time gaps
    Valverde went from the leading group to the bus due to it.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,127
    tonyf34 said:

    Pross said:

    Lots of people still not understanding that the riders are racing for position on GC not just trying to win.

    Pog pulled back over a minute once he attacked - crazy!

    At the point where Ineos went to the front, what was the virtual position of Carapaz, they gained nothing from that point on their nearest rivals for the chance of a podium, okay, they gained on O'Connor, but are you saying that he is a threat to them for a podium position even if he is 3.5minutes ahead of Carapaz?

    What did Ineos gain from their nearest rivals by them going to the front?
    I've sympathy for your pov.

    It is a general rule that the YJ defends (or not) his jersey. UAE did do this to the best of their ability. After that, what?

    Having now watched the race I think Ineos should have tried to call Pog's bluff to see if he would chase, they did seem more like Pog's mountain train than his rivals but maybe we didn't see everything on the TV pictures.

    Ineos/Sky haven't always displayed good tactics in the past either.
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    If someone is going to beat Pogacar without him suffering misfortune, it must been done in one big blow late in the race so that he doesn't have much of a chance to get the lead back. It won't be done by taking a minute here and there.

    Still nearly impossible mind. Any chance of echelons this week?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    Are Ineos really interested in second place? Should have burnt off UAE's domestiques then sat up and let Pog do what he felt like. Probably wouldn't have looked very different, but he'd have had to work for a few km longer after he attacked, which makes any unlikely future collapse a tiny bit more likely.

    If they want second place, then just forget about him and attack Uran.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,486
    kingstongraham said:

    Are Ineos really interested in second place? Should have burnt off UAE's domestiques then sat up and let Pog do what he felt like. Probably wouldn't have looked very different, but he'd have had to work for a few km longer after he attacked, which makes any unlikely future collapse a tiny bit more likely.

    If they want second place, then just forget about him and attack Uran.

    Maybe that was what they were trying, just Pog got a bit excited seeing a bit of racing. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    Would have thought Carapaz would like to finish second in the tour.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    bobmcstuff said:

    It's the way Pog looks like he is on a different planet to everyone else, can attack at will and take time whenever he wants. I don't think Froome's 2018 attack was really quite like that, although it was stunning of course - as mentioned he pulled out more time on the descents than the climbs, it turned into more or less a TT between him and Dumoulin, and the Dumoulin group messed about waiting for Reichenbach, who can't descend anyway.

    Yates 2018 gave off a slightly similar vibe to Pog now (invulnerable, can attack and take time whenever he wants) but he obviously collapsed afterwards.

    They didn't just mess about waiting for Reichenbach coming off the Finestre. They pratted around on the descent from Cesana Torinese to Oulx too. I know that descent really, really well and I am such a geek I timed them. According to my garmin data, I've descended it quicker, solo and on open roads and I weigh a lot less than even GC contending/climbing pros and I'm not exactly super brave when it comes to descending.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    I think the only may to win this for anyone else is to race for second and inherit the lead through misfortune to Pogacar. I can't see Pogacar losing without a major catastrophe.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Are there ducks on the Finestre descent?
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Are there ducks on the Finestre descent?

    No ducks but there are chickens, and cows of course. Oh and the odd marmot.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    TheBigBean said:

    Would have thought Carapaz would like to finish second in the tour.

    Sure, once that's the only possibility. I think he'd risk it for any long shot at winning though.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Would have thought Carapaz would like to finish second in the tour.

    Sure, once that's the only possibility. I think he'd risk it for any long shot at winning though.
    Not sure about that. If he was that confident of his abilities he wouldn't have gone to Ineos. He was 2nd choice in his team for this tour.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    RichN95. said:



    Still nearly impossible mind. Any chance of echelons this week?

    The current forecast is.....

    Thursday stage to Nimes and they get mucho wind on Friday.
    Friday stage to Carcassone and the have a raging crosswind ..............



    ..........................Wednesday and Thursday.

    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Would have thought Carapaz would like to finish second in the tour.

    Sure, once that's the only possibility. I think he'd risk it for any long shot at winning though.
    If he already had a Tour podium I'd agree but I suspect given the current race situation he'd like to complete a full set of podium positions at GTs.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    edited July 2021
    phreak said:

    mididoctors said:

    rick_chasey said:

    joe2019 said:

    phreak said:



    Pogacar's VAM on Saturday was around 1850, which given they were saying on commentary it was into a headwind is quite something.


    That's a motley crew.
    How many kilos lighter and less draggy are the bikes and is their weight included in the watts/kg calculation?

    Bike kit has moved on a bit in 25 years.

    You would expect 90s riders to ride faster than 70s riders even without doping.
    Steel bikes into the 70s where pretty much 10 kg from ww2 to 1980 .. Alu bikes started trimming off weight in the 80s but the 90s bikes where still 9kg so not as much as you would imagine ... Carbon changed everything ..late 90s to 2000s weight fell off as did body weight .
    Pantani's (aluminum) Bianchi from 1998 was 6.9kg.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/features/retro-pro-bike-marco-pantanis-1998-bianchi-mega-pro-xl/

    Yeah but he was kinda small ..
    Van impes bike looks light too i see

    That is super light for that era thou
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:



    Still nearly impossible mind. Any chance of echelons this week?

    The current forecast is.....

    Thursday stage to Nimes and they get mucho wind on Friday.
    Friday stage to Carcassone and the have a raging crosswind ..............



    ..........................Wednesday and Thursday.

    I looked on the BBC site and it wasn't showing it being particulalry windy. Wouldn't have thought the weather would vary massively between two towns 200km apart but I know that part of the world has some strange systems and the wind in particular can be very varied.

    Looks like being pretty hot for those stages too, including the double Ventoux stage so if Pog genuinely doesn't like hot weather that could cause him some issues but probably not enough to reopen the race.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    I remember everyone getting a titanium flite saddle in the early 90s and thinking it was amazing how much lighter your bike felt ...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,127
    phreak said:



    Pantani's (aluminum) Bianchi from 1998 was 6.9kg.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/features/retro-pro-bike-marco-pantanis-1998-bianchi-mega-pro-xl/

    looks like my bike


    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Pross said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:



    Still nearly impossible mind. Any chance of echelons this week?

    The current forecast is.....

    Thursday stage to Nimes and they get mucho wind on Friday.
    Friday stage to Carcassone and the have a raging crosswind ..............



    ..........................Wednesday and Thursday.

    I looked on the BBC site and it wasn't showing it being particulalry windy. Wouldn't have thought the weather would vary massively between two towns 200km apart but I know that part of the world has some strange systems and the wind in particular can be very varied.

    Looks like being pretty hot for those stages too, including the double Ventoux stage so if Pog genuinely doesn't like hot weather that could cause him some issues but probably not enough to reopen the race.
    It's changed a bit since yesterday, but you get the idea the difference between Thursday and race day Friday.




    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    davidof said:

    phreak said:



    Pantani's (aluminum) Bianchi from 1998 was 6.9kg.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/features/retro-pro-bike-marco-pantanis-1998-bianchi-mega-pro-xl/

    looks like my bike


    8 speed?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Just saw the Pog attack.

    Lol.

    He’s done then in so hard they don’t even react to him.
    _
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Are Ineos really interested in second place? Should have burnt off UAE's domestiques then sat up and let Pog do what he felt like. Probably wouldn't have looked very different, but he'd have had to work for a few km longer after he attacked, which makes any unlikely future collapse a tiny bit more likely.

    If they want second place, then just forget about him and attack Uran.

    Maybe that was what they were trying, just Pog got a bit excited seeing a bit of racing. 😉
    From the sounds of the Ineos interviews they were racing - they were trying to set up a Carapaz attack to take time.

    At least they tried 🤷‍♂️

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