Ardennes* races **Spoilers**

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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    m.r.m. said:

    RichN95. said:

    Also:

    "Without Liège, it gives us more time to recover and prepare for the mountain bike," Pidcock’s coach, Kurt Bogaerts, told Cyclingnews earlier in the season. "The unknown is how long he can hold his form, especially after a busy cyclo-cross schedule in the winter."
    Pidcock is currently listed on the startlist for LBL on procycling stats.

    I know. He's doing it. I said that up the page
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    He's done a total of 13 race days since the middle of February. I don't think that's excessive, especially as he's only ridden one stage race.

    Van Aert has done 14 days since the beginning of March.

    In the same period as Pidcock, Lotto-Soudal's Stefano Oldani has done 31 race days. He's just 23.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    At the risk of being the "Dan Martin was racing the Alps" guy, what would Sagan's palmares look like if he hadn't been detrimentally over-raced? Merckx would be nervous...
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  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,620
    andyp said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    He's done a total of 13 race days since the middle of February. I don't think that's excessive, especially as he's only ridden one stage race.

    Van Aert has done 14 days since the beginning of March.

    In the same period as Pidcock, Lotto-Soudal's Stefano Oldani has done 31 race days. He's just 23.
    But there's racing and there's being in races.

    Van aert is 26.5, he should be fine with the workload. Pidcock should be given some good periods of rest. If any team is going to put his welfare before team goals it's Ineos.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    edited April 2021
    andyp said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    He's done a total of 13 race days since the middle of February. I don't think that's excessive, especially as he's only ridden one stage race.

    Van Aert has done 14 days since the beginning of March.

    In the same period as Pidcock, Lotto-Soudal's Stefano Oldani has done 31 race days. He's just 23.
    He may have done more race days but has been at the business end of none of them whereas Pidcock and WVA are in the 'expected to win' category, and have had a cyclocross season, and in WVA's case spent last summer dragging the peloton up every mountain pass in France.

    Obvs I'm no physiologist, I just think that adds up.







    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    How heavy is a cross season, compared to winter training to be good for the classics? They only race an hour or two a week.

    I get that having a few weeks off is valuable, even just from a psychological perspective
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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    edited April 2021
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    At the risk of being the "Dan Martin was racing the Alps" guy, what would Sagan's palmares look like if he hadn't been detrimentally over-raced? Merckx would be nervous...
    I'd need to go back and look at results, and maybe my memory is distorted, but it's always been my perception that Liquigas wrung a lot out of him and it took a couple of years to get back to top top form

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    edited April 2021
    Maybe something happened I don't remember, but there was a drop off in 2014 as compared to 2013






    Edit

    Maybe is was just Kwiatkowski happened :)
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    tailwindhome said:

    Maybe something happened I don't remember, but there was a drop off in 2014 as compared to 2013






    Edit

    Maybe is was just Kwiatkowski happened :)

    Yes I remember Boonen saying something about riders maturing at different speeds - he hit his top top form quite early on in his career. If you compare him to Cancellara for example, who arguably had a higher "top" form, he matured much later in his career.

    I think the same could possibly be said for the likes of Sagan etc.

    WvA isn't that young though, remember. He's already 26.
    _
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Which year was it that if Sagan and GVA were in a two up sprint they'd both finish second?

    There was also a point where Sagan grew out of towing others to the line. His strategy changed because he was getting mugged
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,501
    There's another phenomenon though; the Sagan's, the WvA's, the MvdP's, the Boonen's, the Cancellara's become marked men. Forced to do the bulk of the work in a breakaway, always followed, always stuck to when chasing down a break, always followed in an attack.
    I think this has something to do with the perception that the rainbow colours are cursed.

    As an aside, in the Tour of the Alps, Nico Roche being referred to as a 'veteran'. Makes me feel old.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 599
    With you there Pinno. Now in my head I know more and more riders as “oh that’s xxxx’s son / daughter”.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    pinno said:

    There's another phenomenon though; the Sagan's, the WvA's, the MvdP's, the Boonen's, the Cancellara's become marked men. Forced to do the bulk of the work in a breakaway, always followed, always stuck to when chasing down a break, always followed in an attack.
    I think this has something to do with the perception that the rainbow colours are cursed.

    As an aside, in the Tour of the Alps, Nico Roche being referred to as a 'veteran'. Makes me feel old.

    Same with Dan Martin. His mum and dad used to attend my club awards night when he would have been infant school age. He's now coming up to 35!
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    bm5 said:

    With you there Pinno. Now in my head I know more and more riders as “oh that’s xxxx’s son / daughter”.

    There must be someone here that remembers Poulidor racing and is now watching his grandson
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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    tailwindhome said:

    andyp said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    He's done a total of 13 race days since the middle of February. I don't think that's excessive, especially as he's only ridden one stage race.

    Van Aert has done 14 days since the beginning of March.

    In the same period as Pidcock, Lotto-Soudal's Stefano Oldani has done 31 race days. He's just 23.
    He may have done more race days but has been at the business end of none of them whereas Pidcock and WVA are in the 'expected to win' category, and have had a cyclocross season, and in WVA's case spent last summer dragging the peloton up every mountain pass in France.

    Obvs I'm no physiologist, I just think that adds up.








    Gonna add in here the assertion that 2021 WVA is paying for that 20th place at the Tour
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    tailwindhome said:

    andyp said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    He's done a total of 13 race days since the middle of February. I don't think that's excessive, especially as he's only ridden one stage race.

    Van Aert has done 14 days since the beginning of March.

    In the same period as Pidcock, Lotto-Soudal's Stefano Oldani has done 31 race days. He's just 23.
    He may have done more race days but has been at the business end of none of them whereas Pidcock and WVA are in the 'expected to win' category, and have had a cyclocross season, and in WVA's case spent last summer dragging the peloton up every mountain pass in France.

    Obvs I'm no physiologist, I just think that adds up.








    Gonna add in here the assertion that 2021 WVA is paying for that 20th place at the Tour
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    tailwindhome said:

    tailwindhome said:

    andyp said:

    tailwindhome said:

    This is something Ineos need to be careful with.

    I always believed Sagan was over-raced early in his career snd it had a detrimental effect.

    I think Jumbo are doing the same with WVA.

    He's done a total of 13 race days since the middle of February. I don't think that's excessive, especially as he's only ridden one stage race.

    Van Aert has done 14 days since the beginning of March.

    In the same period as Pidcock, Lotto-Soudal's Stefano Oldani has done 31 race days. He's just 23.
    He may have done more race days but has been at the business end of none of them whereas Pidcock and WVA are in the 'expected to win' category, and have had a cyclocross season, and in WVA's case spent last summer dragging the peloton up every mountain pass in France.

    Obvs I'm no physiologist, I just think that adds up.








    Gonna add in here the assertion that 2021 WVA is paying for that 20th place at the Tour
    He also tried to win Tirreno–Adriatico GC, and whilst a noble second, it must have hurt.

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    pinno said:

    There's another phenomenon though; the Sagan's, the WvA's, the MvdP's, the Boonen's, the Cancellara's become marked men. Forced to do the bulk of the work in a breakaway, always followed, always stuck to when chasing down a break, always followed in an attack.
    I think this has something to do with the perception that the rainbow colours are cursed.

    As an aside, in the Tour of the Alps, Nico Roche being referred to as a 'veteran'. Makes me feel old.

    Weirdly, I think the Vans help each other here. At least they're splitting all the work between two...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Can't do an lbl spoiler thread from my phone, but a couple of interesting* facts

    No rider has been on the podium twice in the last 5 editions.

    Of the current pro peloton, only Valverde, Kwiatkowski and *ahem* Rebellin have been on the podium more than once.

    Only 17 riders have won it more than once, over the 106 editions. These riders have 44 wins between them. 62 riders have a single win.

    Does this make it the most open, or hardest to win monument?





    *For a nondeterminate value of interesting
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  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Can't do an lbl spoiler thread from my phone, but a couple of interesting* facts

    No rider has been on the podium twice in the last 5 editions.

    Of the current pro peloton, only Valverde, Kwiatkowski and *ahem* Rebellin have been on the podium more than once.

    Only 17 riders have won it more than once, over the 106 editions. These riders have 44 wins between them. 62 riders have a single win.

    Does this make it the most open, or hardest to win monument?





    *For a nondeterminate value of interesting

    Also interesting that despite having far and away the most winners, there have only been two Belgian winners in the past 30 years.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Always feel the TV director needs to spend more time at the back of the peloton.
    _
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    Pidcock back off the Ineos startling according to the Ineos Instagram- feeling the effects of his crash apparently and wants to rest up for the MTB

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