Ardennes* races **Spoilers**
Comments
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Then there has also been Matthews/Yates, Matthews/Barguil, Sagan/Buchmann (4th), Alaphilippe/Viviani. A bit weaker than 2012 admittedly.TheBigBean said:
Right, I picked one year to do some analysis on this - 2012.blazing_saddles said:
I’d better qualify that by saying it depends how one views Contador in his last couple of seasons riding with Sagan at Tinkoff.TheBigBean said:
I'd need to see some analysis on that to believe it. Obviously having a whole team devoted to it is great, but I think some riders must have won without much support.blazing_saddles said:
I disagree.TheBigBean said:
On any other team, he would have been going for the green jersey.rick_chasey said:
Good question, so what indeed.blazing_saddles said:
So?rick_chasey said:
WvA was given the opportunity to win two stages last tourblazing_saddles said:
It's worth remembering at this point that even WVA is expected to ride as a Jumbo domestique at the Tour.TheBigBean said:
Any other team apart from DQS. I want to see riders compete in the races that they are good at. I don't want to see Kwiatkowski riding as a domestique for one of five GC riders in the three GTs each year. I don't want to see Froome being called back to wait etc.blazing_saddles said:
Just out of interest, which team/S would you prefer to see a young talent ride for?TheBigBean said:
That's my feeling when a rider moves to Ineos.rick_chasey said:
My heart always sinks when I see thatRichN95. said:pinno said:<
Given his talent, will Ineos hone him as a Tour rider? If so, that may preclude him from a long term classics contender.
Ineos/Sky have had a poor classics history. Do they build half a squad around a classics rider given Pidcocks potential?
He's said himself that long term he sees himself as primarily a GT rider but he's in no hurry to specialise.
Pidcock has star potential and it would be good if he got to choose his races. I just fear someone will come up with the great idea that he should be a mountain domestique at a GT. I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Other than Tadej Pogacar, is there another young rider with potential who hasn't first had to cut his teeth as a support rider in GTs?
The closest I would say is Egan Bernal.
Also, is it really such a bad thing?
Ineos have two young "mountain domestiques", riding in support of GT, who have already won GTs as a result.
Tom Pidcock dominated the Baby Giro he won, so I think both he and Ineos have a clear understanding of what he is good at and his long term goals.
As for Kwiatkowski, I am not sure he can be afforded the same luxury as a Peter Sagan or Julian Alaphilippe.
One of those opportunities was handed to him by Bora.
I guess all I mean is his leash isn't very tight at Jumbo. He's given the chance to win stages he's right for, and on the stages he's not he's put to work.
FWIW I would have expected if he was at ineos to not have had a tilt at the sprint finishes.
Go back as far as you like and one thing becomes clear: the teams who won the green jersey, targeted it, because they had no serious GC contender.
The rest stands.
Sky. 1st and 2nd in GC. 4th in Green
Lotto–Belisol. 4th in GC. 2nd in Green
Liquigas–Cannondale. 3rd in GC. 1st in Green.0 -
The winner being Sagan's first maillot verde and Sky's 4th with Cavendish in 2012.TheBigBean said:
Right, I picked one year to do some analysis on this - 2012.blazing_saddles said:
I’d better qualify that by saying it depends how one views Contador in his last couple of seasons riding with Sagan at Tinkoff.TheBigBean said:
I'd need to see some analysis on that to believe it. Obviously having a whole team devoted to it is great, but I think some riders must have won without much support.blazing_saddles said:
I disagree.TheBigBean said:
On any other team, he would have been going for the green jersey.rick_chasey said:
Good question, so what indeed.blazing_saddles said:
So?rick_chasey said:
WvA was given the opportunity to win two stages last tourblazing_saddles said:
It's worth remembering at this point that even WVA is expected to ride as a Jumbo domestique at the Tour.TheBigBean said:
Any other team apart from DQS. I want to see riders compete in the races that they are good at. I don't want to see Kwiatkowski riding as a domestique for one of five GC riders in the three GTs each year. I don't want to see Froome being called back to wait etc.blazing_saddles said:
Just out of interest, which team/S would you prefer to see a young talent ride for?TheBigBean said:
That's my feeling when a rider moves to Ineos.rick_chasey said:
My heart always sinks when I see thatRichN95. said:pinno said:<
Given his talent, will Ineos hone him as a Tour rider? If so, that may preclude him from a long term classics contender.
Ineos/Sky have had a poor classics history. Do they build half a squad around a classics rider given Pidcocks potential?
He's said himself that long term he sees himself as primarily a GT rider but he's in no hurry to specialise.
Pidcock has star potential and it would be good if he got to choose his races. I just fear someone will come up with the great idea that he should be a mountain domestique at a GT. I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Other than Tadej Pogacar, is there another young rider with potential who hasn't first had to cut his teeth as a support rider in GTs?
The closest I would say is Egan Bernal.
Also, is it really such a bad thing?
Ineos have two young "mountain domestiques", riding in support of GT, who have already won GTs as a result.
Tom Pidcock dominated the Baby Giro he won, so I think both he and Ineos have a clear understanding of what he is good at and his long term goals.
As for Kwiatkowski, I am not sure he can be afforded the same luxury as a Peter Sagan or Julian Alaphilippe.
One of those opportunities was handed to him by Bora.
I guess all I mean is his leash isn't very tight at Jumbo. He's given the chance to win stages he's right for, and on the stages he's not he's put to work.
FWIW I would have expected if he was at ineos to not have had a tilt at the sprint finishes.
Go back as far as you like and one thing becomes clear: the teams who won the green jersey, targeted it, because they had no serious GC contender.
The rest stands.
Sky. 1st and 2nd in GC. 4th in Green
Lotto–Belisol. 4th in GC. 2nd in Green
Liquigas–Cannondale. 3rd in GC. 1st in Green.
Didn't Cav leave Sky and join QS to get full backing for the green jersey tilt?
Other than that you are stretching a point with 4th and 2nd. Especially classing Jurgen Van den Broeck as a serious contender for winning the Tour.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Well, it's true they haven't been won by the same team in the same year for a while, but I count Nibali as a potential tour winner on the basis that he won the tour.blazing_saddles said:
The winner being Sagan's first maillot verde and Sky's 4th with Cavendish in 2012.TheBigBean said:
Right, I picked one year to do some analysis on this - 2012.blazing_saddles said:
I’d better qualify that by saying it depends how one views Contador in his last couple of seasons riding with Sagan at Tinkoff.TheBigBean said:
I'd need to see some analysis on that to believe it. Obviously having a whole team devoted to it is great, but I think some riders must have won without much support.blazing_saddles said:
I disagree.TheBigBean said:
On any other team, he would have been going for the green jersey.rick_chasey said:
Good question, so what indeed.blazing_saddles said:
So?rick_chasey said:
WvA was given the opportunity to win two stages last tourblazing_saddles said:
It's worth remembering at this point that even WVA is expected to ride as a Jumbo domestique at the Tour.TheBigBean said:
Any other team apart from DQS. I want to see riders compete in the races that they are good at. I don't want to see Kwiatkowski riding as a domestique for one of five GC riders in the three GTs each year. I don't want to see Froome being called back to wait etc.blazing_saddles said:
Just out of interest, which team/S would you prefer to see a young talent ride for?TheBigBean said:
That's my feeling when a rider moves to Ineos.rick_chasey said:
My heart always sinks when I see thatRichN95. said:pinno said:<
Given his talent, will Ineos hone him as a Tour rider? If so, that may preclude him from a long term classics contender.
Ineos/Sky have had a poor classics history. Do they build half a squad around a classics rider given Pidcocks potential?
He's said himself that long term he sees himself as primarily a GT rider but he's in no hurry to specialise.
Pidcock has star potential and it would be good if he got to choose his races. I just fear someone will come up with the great idea that he should be a mountain domestique at a GT. I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Other than Tadej Pogacar, is there another young rider with potential who hasn't first had to cut his teeth as a support rider in GTs?
The closest I would say is Egan Bernal.
Also, is it really such a bad thing?
Ineos have two young "mountain domestiques", riding in support of GT, who have already won GTs as a result.
Tom Pidcock dominated the Baby Giro he won, so I think both he and Ineos have a clear understanding of what he is good at and his long term goals.
As for Kwiatkowski, I am not sure he can be afforded the same luxury as a Peter Sagan or Julian Alaphilippe.
One of those opportunities was handed to him by Bora.
I guess all I mean is his leash isn't very tight at Jumbo. He's given the chance to win stages he's right for, and on the stages he's not he's put to work.
FWIW I would have expected if he was at ineos to not have had a tilt at the sprint finishes.
Go back as far as you like and one thing becomes clear: the teams who won the green jersey, targeted it, because they had no serious GC contender.
The rest stands.
Sky. 1st and 2nd in GC. 4th in Green
Lotto–Belisol. 4th in GC. 2nd in Green
Liquigas–Cannondale. 3rd in GC. 1st in Green.
Didn't Cav leave Sky and join QS to get full backing for the green jersey tilt?
Other than that you are stretching a point with 4th and 2nd. Especially classing Jurgen Van den Broeck as a serious contender for winning the Tour.0 -
I've just switched over from Tour of the Alps and have it running on one screen whilst working. May have to mute if Blythe can't control CK's inane ramblings though.ddraver said:Who's gonna take one for the team and let us know when there's 2 km to go so we can tune in?
One of the people that actually like Carlton, this sounds like a job for you...0 -
CK claiming Roglic not the best puncheur.0
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I like carbon. Especially when they use it to make bicycle frames and bits.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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ok thanks. Out of interest does that mean we still (potentially) catch measles etc but just don't get the symptoms? Or is that a different type of innoculation?Mad_Malx said:
Vaccine does not prevent catching the virus (though likely reduces chances). It does decrease viral persistence/replication and hence the conversion to disease (dramatically). If viral load is reduced, your likelihood of transmission will be reduced too.yorkshireraw said:
UAE team have all been jabbed as well haven't they? Would be worrying if they'd genuinely come up +vebobmcstuff said:
Edit: that’s not well phrased but the point stands.
Apols for thread hijacking.... but FW only gets interesting with 1K to go....0 -
I agree.TheBigBean said:
Well, it's true they haven't been won by the same team in the same year for a while, but I count Nibali as a potential tour winner on the basis that he won the tour.blazing_saddles said:
The winner being Sagan's first maillot verde and Sky's 4th with Cavendish in 2012.TheBigBean said:
Right, I picked one year to do some analysis on this - 2012.blazing_saddles said:
I’d better qualify that by saying it depends how one views Contador in his last couple of seasons riding with Sagan at Tinkoff.TheBigBean said:
I'd need to see some analysis on that to believe it. Obviously having a whole team devoted to it is great, but I think some riders must have won without much support.blazing_saddles said:
I disagree.TheBigBean said:
On any other team, he would have been going for the green jersey.rick_chasey said:
Good question, so what indeed.blazing_saddles said:
So?rick_chasey said:
WvA was given the opportunity to win two stages last tourblazing_saddles said:
It's worth remembering at this point that even WVA is expected to ride as a Jumbo domestique at the Tour.TheBigBean said:
Any other team apart from DQS. I want to see riders compete in the races that they are good at. I don't want to see Kwiatkowski riding as a domestique for one of five GC riders in the three GTs each year. I don't want to see Froome being called back to wait etc.blazing_saddles said:
Just out of interest, which team/S would you prefer to see a young talent ride for?TheBigBean said:
That's my feeling when a rider moves to Ineos.rick_chasey said:
My heart always sinks when I see thatRichN95. said:pinno said:<
Given his talent, will Ineos hone him as a Tour rider? If so, that may preclude him from a long term classics contender.
Ineos/Sky have had a poor classics history. Do they build half a squad around a classics rider given Pidcocks potential?
He's said himself that long term he sees himself as primarily a GT rider but he's in no hurry to specialise.
Pidcock has star potential and it would be good if he got to choose his races. I just fear someone will come up with the great idea that he should be a mountain domestique at a GT. I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Other than Tadej Pogacar, is there another young rider with potential who hasn't first had to cut his teeth as a support rider in GTs?
The closest I would say is Egan Bernal.
Also, is it really such a bad thing?
Ineos have two young "mountain domestiques", riding in support of GT, who have already won GTs as a result.
Tom Pidcock dominated the Baby Giro he won, so I think both he and Ineos have a clear understanding of what he is good at and his long term goals.
As for Kwiatkowski, I am not sure he can be afforded the same luxury as a Peter Sagan or Julian Alaphilippe.
One of those opportunities was handed to him by Bora.
I guess all I mean is his leash isn't very tight at Jumbo. He's given the chance to win stages he's right for, and on the stages he's not he's put to work.
FWIW I would have expected if he was at ineos to not have had a tilt at the sprint finishes.
Go back as far as you like and one thing becomes clear: the teams who won the green jersey, targeted it, because they had no serious GC contender.
The rest stands.
Sky. 1st and 2nd in GC. 4th in Green
Lotto–Belisol. 4th in GC. 2nd in Green
Liquigas–Cannondale. 3rd in GC. 1st in Green.
Didn't Cav leave Sky and join QS to get full backing for the green jersey tilt?
Other than that you are stretching a point with 4th and 2nd. Especially classing Jurgen Van den Broeck as a serious contender for winning the Tour.
You have found one with Nibali, even if Sagan wasn't likely to command full team support back in 2012.
I would suggest that Telekom in 1996/97 would be where my theory no longer holds water."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Ridiculous piece of street furniture left in place that could have caused chaos. I saw it in the women's race but they were down to a very small group by then. The whole peloton reached it in the men's race and a few riders had to go through the bollards (one actually hit one but stayed upright).0
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Pidcock down.0
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Crash for Pidcock"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0
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Crash. Pidcock and Gilbert down, no major damage though.0
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Pidcock back at the team car and seems to have a damaged show - not great for sprinting up the Muur! 25k to go.0
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Did Blyth have to peel Kirby off the ceiling?
I have had to switch to the Dutch commentary"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
5 Ineos riders at the front (including Pidcock who has made it back). Among them is Yates - cue Carlton talking about Yates possibly going his own way.0
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He's still going on about it just because Yates is one rider over from the other 4.0
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Carlton sounds like he's already reaching orgasm and there are still 10kms to go.0
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I know everyone thinks it's just a sprint up the Mur but the peloton is properly lined out up this final climb.
Carapaz attacks over the top. Generates a bit of a reaction from Knox, Hague and Stannard0 -
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Roglic accelerates at 400m to go and no-one follows.
Alaphilippe eventually reacts with Valverde in his wheel.0 -
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Kirby "Alaphillippe looks like he's spent" just as he rounds Roglic for the win.0
