Women's safety
Comments
-
Erm, I cycle to work. This is not unfamiliar.shirley_basso said:
You're missing the point.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
Women are attacked and harrassed wherever they go - in the workplace, nightclubs, shops, the street, taxis etc. Almost every single woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted. They also rarely report the cases as there's relatively little than can be done (bad) or worse - have started to accept it as a fact of life.
As for Seanoconn's comment - what can you say? Pretty selfish outlook. Aren't we all glad you haven't been grabbed by the censored , sworn at and chased down the street in broad daylight by by some aggressive stranger.
You’re also missing the point of my post.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
I'd be interested to hear what a woman would say to that response! Also, in case you hadn't realised, women cycle to work too, as well as putting up with all the other sh!t. I'm sure being a women in lycra is a much more simple affair than being a 6ft man.
Also - what if the alternative to cycling to work was being housebound?0 -
That would be of limited use in most of the cases of street violence I have come across. For example, when my colleague was stabbed, he was surrounded by a group of six kids with a knife. When a former colleague spent a week in hospital, he presumes that there were quite a few them, but has no memory.seanoconn said:
Risk management.rick_chasey said:
No, but it's a helpful way to visualise how some women feel about walking around at night.blazing_saddles said:Is it appropriate to ask how many supporting this article would also advocate her solution of a night time curfew on men ?
I ask as I am interested as to how folks see this working.
I’m 6ft reasonably strong and fit. I feel confident that I wouldn’t be easy prey but I also manage/reduce risk by avoiding certain quiet areas at night. When my circumstances change due to ill health/age, I’ll modify my behaviour to further reduce the risk of being a target.
Perhaps one point is that women are more likely to be attacked by individuals than gangs. The one woman I know who was attacked, was attacked by a single man.
As I said upthread, street violence is very different from sexual harassment.
0 -
The point your fury is too blinded to see is thus.shirley_basso said:I'd be interested to hear what a woman would say to that response! Also, in case you hadn't realised, women cycle to work too, as well as putting up with all the other sh!t. I'm sure being a women in lycra is a much more simple affair than being a 6ft man.
Also - what if the alternative to cycling to work was being housebound?
I manage my risk accordingly. Not because I’m a big bloke and don’t have to worry, stuff the rest. My children don’t walk the streets at night, my wife doesn’t walk alone on quiet streets at night. Should she have to worry and take precautions no, does she have to worry and take precautions yes.
I don’t belt along the road on my bike without fear because I’m in the right and shouldn’t worry. I take precautions ride carefully and manage risk.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
I have no fury. Just surprise.
Children you can understand - they will grow out of it.
This point you make "Should she have to worry and take precautions no, does she have to worry and take precautions yes." - this is the main point of the thread. It's clearly not fair - and worth a discussion. What can one do? I have no idea. But in my wokeness [sic] I have become all too aware of the issue, whereas before I was totally oblivious as to how bad it was.
1 -
You have no idea, I have no idea. They have no idea.shirley_basso said:I have no fury. Just surprise.
Children you can understand - they will grow out of it.
This point you make "Should she have to worry and take precautions no, does she have to worry and take precautions yes." - this is the main point of the thread. It's clearly not fair - and worth a discussion. What can one do? I have no idea. But in my wokeness [sic] I have become all too aware of the issue, whereas before I was totally oblivious as to how bad it was.
My post was in reply to another about walking alone at night. Without a current solution, you reduce the risk by not walking on your own on quiet streets at night. Not a selfish point IMHO.
Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
A few women i know do that for the entirety of their journey if they're walking alone, just in case.shirley_basso said:
Or to both of you - try this angle - let's say that a woman saw you and immediately was terrified of you - regardless if you were benign or wanted to help. She immediately started putting her keys between her knuckles to use as a weapon, started looking to escape routes etc etc. Is there no part of you that would want to change how half the population potenially saw you?0 -
The difference is the "lower level" stuff though. If you were followed around by gangs of youths giving you abuse or just tracking you around the streets you aren't being attacked and probably wouldn't report it but it might make you less inclined to walk through that area. That's the issue women are saying they are facing on a daily basis. That said, it's not something my wife, daughters or sisters have ever really mentioned to me so I'm not sure if it doesn't happen that much with them or if it is just so commonplace they don't even mention it (my older daughter did say something about inappropriate comments somewhere recently and she works daily with offenders so isn't exactly a snowflake). I should really ask off the back of this I suppose as I've always assumed they would mention these things but maybe they don't. I know some of the women I run with mention getting wolf whistles and comments on most of their runs though and some won't run in the evening without company.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.0 -
Look I am not trying to antagonise you here but you must see that there is a threshold issue here. How many boys got into a fight at school as an experience. This is an assault and therefore I would hazard a guess that most men that you speak to have been assaulted. If we brought in verbal abuse we would find that it must be easily at 100% of males have been verbally abused. So when you say that every woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted it is a very low bar and is not helpful to the discussion.shirley_basso said:
You're missing the point.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
Women are attacked and harrassed wherever they go - in the workplace, nightclubs, shops, the street, taxis etc. Almost every single woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted. They also rarely report the cases as there's relatively little than can be done (bad) or worse - have started to accept it as a fact of life.
Just because a woman isn't raped or murdered - doesn't mean they haven't been chased, attacked, sworn at, grabbed and assaulted. Women are ALWAYS having to think about 'what if' - and have started to view every single man as a possible threat.
Is that fair / right / equal?
I find your inability to see this from someone elses viewpoint quite odd.
As for Seanoconn's comment - what can you say? Pretty selfish outlook. Aren't we all glad you haven't been grabbed by the censored , sworn at and chased down the street in broad daylight by by some aggressive stranger.
Or to both of you - try this angle - let's say that a woman saw you and immediately was terrified of you - regardless if you were benign or wanted to help. She immediately started putting her keys between her knuckles to use as a weapon, started looking to escape routes etc etc. Is there no part of you that would want to change how half the population potenially saw you?
As for your last paragraph when I go about my daily business and I doubt many if any women are scared of me. So what do you want me to change when I get in my car to go to an engineering office everyday or go to the shops in my middle aged clothes. You are starting to get into the fever pitch where what are we to do as males. It is funny that when I was in school the girls invariably fancied the taller and stronger than average classmate who was beating up the geeky nerd. Surely if they are all bricking themselves they would be chasing the non threatening nerd. You have literally no solutions that are credible.
The issue is massively more complicated than men are the problem hand wringing. We are walking into a ticking time bomb of negative attitudes to women simply by allowing free and easy access to porn with what is likely a glib chat in school for a couple of hours about consent. We have a more equal society for women than we have ever had yet are things improving. If we keep lowering the threshold then maybe it never will. Girls are doing better in school than boys yet we still have a relatively high number of self conscious teenage girls seemingly willing to do anything for their boyfriends. Go figure as I don't get it.1 -
The difference between the risks you face on a bike and the risks a women walking alone faces is deliberate behaviour.seanoconn said:
The point your fury is too blinded to see is thus.shirley_basso said:I'd be interested to hear what a woman would say to that response! Also, in case you hadn't realised, women cycle to work too, as well as putting up with all the other sh!t. I'm sure being a women in lycra is a much more simple affair than being a 6ft man.
Also - what if the alternative to cycling to work was being housebound?
I manage my risk accordingly. Not because I’m a big bloke and don’t have to worry, stuff the rest. My children don’t walk the streets at night, my wife doesn’t walk alone on quiet streets at night. Should she have to worry and take precautions no, does she have to worry and take precautions yes.
I don’t belt along the road on my bike without fear because I’m in the right and shouldn’t worry. I take precautions ride carefully and manage risk.
Yes there are utter two-hats in cars who would go out of their way to harm you on your bike, but most of the risk comes from poor / distracted driving. I'd say this is 'un-deliberate' risk placed on you by the driver (in most cases).
If a man is harassing / assaulting / chasing / shouting etc at a woman in the street that is all deliberate - he's not doing that as a consequence of looking at his phone.
I don't think the two are situations are comparative.0 -
They don't report or talk about it as it's sadly become a part of their existence.Pross said:
The difference is the "lower level" stuff though. If you were followed around by gangs of youths giving you abuse or just tracking you around the streets you aren't being attacked and probably wouldn't report it but it might make you less inclined to walk through that area. That's the issue women are saying they are facing on a daily basis. That said, it's not something my wife, daughters or sisters have ever really mentioned to me so I'm not sure if it doesn't happen that much with them or if it is just so commonplace they don't even mention it (my older daughter did say something about inappropriate comments somewhere recently and she works daily with offenders so isn't exactly a snowflake). I should really ask off the back of this I suppose as I've always assumed they would mention these things but maybe they don't. I know some of the women I run with mention getting wolf whistles and comments on most of their runs though and some won't run in the evening without company.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
I'm surprised you haven't asked them. I asked my wife - she said it had happened a few times and just shrugged it off. To be fair I haven't asked my sister - I'm afraid of what she might say.
She is a successful business owner (where most of her profession are females) and still gets treated by a second class citizen by some clients.0 -
I get it and thank you for your comments. I am not in the business of self flagellating either - I don't blame myself for how women are treated or feel - but this incident has raised awareness of it. I also have no solutions. I am just trying to ask you to see it from a womens point of view, how horrific it is, and ask yourself - how did it get to this?john80 said:
Look I am not trying to antagonise you here but you must see that there is a threshold issue here. How many boys got into a fight at school as an experience. This is an assault and therefore I would hazard a guess that most men that you speak to have been assaulted. If we brought in verbal abuse we would find that it must be easily at 100% of males have been verbally abused. So when you say that every woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted it is a very low bar and is not helpful to the discussion.shirley_basso said:
You're missing the point.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
Women are attacked and harrassed wherever they go - in the workplace, nightclubs, shops, the street, taxis etc. Almost every single woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted. They also rarely report the cases as there's relatively little than can be done (bad) or worse - have started to accept it as a fact of life.
Just because a woman isn't raped or murdered - doesn't mean they haven't been chased, attacked, sworn at, grabbed and assaulted. Women are ALWAYS having to think about 'what if' - and have started to view every single man as a possible threat.
Is that fair / right / equal?
I find your inability to see this from someone elses viewpoint quite odd.
As for Seanoconn's comment - what can you say? Pretty selfish outlook. Aren't we all glad you haven't been grabbed by the censored , sworn at and chased down the street in broad daylight by by some aggressive stranger.
Or to both of you - try this angle - let's say that a woman saw you and immediately was terrified of you - regardless if you were benign or wanted to help. She immediately started putting her keys between her knuckles to use as a weapon, started looking to escape routes etc etc. Is there no part of you that would want to change how half the population potenially saw you?
As for your last paragraph when I go about my daily business and I doubt many if any women are scared of me. So what do you want me to change when I get in my car to go to an engineering office everyday or go to the shops in my middle aged clothes. You are starting to get into the fever pitch where what are we to do as males. It is funny that when I was in school the girls invariably fancied the taller and stronger than average classmate who was beating up the geeky nerd. Surely if they are all bricking themselves they would be chasing the non threatening nerd. You have literally no solutions that are credible.
The issue is massively more complicated than men are the problem hand wringing. We are walking into a ticking time bomb of negative attitudes to women simply by allowing free and easy access to porn with what is likely a glib chat in school for a couple of hours about consent. We have a more equal society for women than we have ever had yet are things improving. If we keep lowering the threshold then maybe it never will. Girls are doing better in school than boys yet we still have a relatively high number of self conscious teenage girls seemingly willing to do anything for their boyfriends. Go figure as I don't get it.
I guess I don't see it as men getting into a scuffle with each other because men can behave like prats (women fight and swear at each other just as well, if not better than men in some cases)
The point being addressed here is more like systematic downtreading of females due to their gender.
"Almost very woman has been sexually assualted in their life by a grown man who has acted like that because he knows he can get away with it"
- this could be from a sly grope on a packed train or taking upskirting photos through to someone pentrating a woman with his fingers into her through her pants in a nightclub - or grabbing them while they walk alone, or trapping them and making threatening remarks. (all of which have appeared on my LinkedIn feed)
Yes I am sure it happens the other way around but come on, do you really think it's quite as widespread?
Likewise I am not trying to antagonise you - but I am surprised you can't see this for what it is. This isn't "part of growing up" (your schoolboy analogy) or "boys being boys" (or girls being girls) - your one about people generally fighting.0 -
Are there no women who post on Cake Stop?0
-
You can't solve this through criminal punishment and the police. For one they struggle to deal with serious crime so they don't have the resources to do this and never will and you and others see there is a balance between what your taxes can pay for and the freedoms you would like to have. For second when you start to put the low level stuff in front of a jury they won't convict as it is a jury of society filled with their inherent bias.shirley_basso said:
I get it and thank you for your comments. I am not in the business of self flagellating either - I don't blame myself for how women are treated or feel - but this incident has raised awareness of it. I also have no solutions. I am just trying to ask you to see it from a womens point of view, how horrific it is, and ask yourself - how did it get to this?john80 said:
Look I am not trying to antagonise you here but you must see that there is a threshold issue here. How many boys got into a fight at school as an experience. This is an assault and therefore I would hazard a guess that most men that you speak to have been assaulted. If we brought in verbal abuse we would find that it must be easily at 100% of males have been verbally abused. So when you say that every woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted it is a very low bar and is not helpful to the discussion.shirley_basso said:
You're missing the point.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
Women are attacked and harrassed wherever they go - in the workplace, nightclubs, shops, the street, taxis etc. Almost every single woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted. They also rarely report the cases as there's relatively little than can be done (bad) or worse - have started to accept it as a fact of life.
Just because a woman isn't raped or murdered - doesn't mean they haven't been chased, attacked, sworn at, grabbed and assaulted. Women are ALWAYS having to think about 'what if' - and have started to view every single man as a possible threat.
Is that fair / right / equal?
I find your inability to see this from someone elses viewpoint quite odd.
As for Seanoconn's comment - what can you say? Pretty selfish outlook. Aren't we all glad you haven't been grabbed by the censored , sworn at and chased down the street in broad daylight by by some aggressive stranger.
Or to both of you - try this angle - let's say that a woman saw you and immediately was terrified of you - regardless if you were benign or wanted to help. She immediately started putting her keys between her knuckles to use as a weapon, started looking to escape routes etc etc. Is there no part of you that would want to change how half the population potenially saw you?
As for your last paragraph when I go about my daily business and I doubt many if any women are scared of me. So what do you want me to change when I get in my car to go to an engineering office everyday or go to the shops in my middle aged clothes. You are starting to get into the fever pitch where what are we to do as males. It is funny that when I was in school the girls invariably fancied the taller and stronger than average classmate who was beating up the geeky nerd. Surely if they are all bricking themselves they would be chasing the non threatening nerd. You have literally no solutions that are credible.
The issue is massively more complicated than men are the problem hand wringing. We are walking into a ticking time bomb of negative attitudes to women simply by allowing free and easy access to porn with what is likely a glib chat in school for a couple of hours about consent. We have a more equal society for women than we have ever had yet are things improving. If we keep lowering the threshold then maybe it never will. Girls are doing better in school than boys yet we still have a relatively high number of self conscious teenage girls seemingly willing to do anything for their boyfriends. Go figure as I don't get it.
I guess I don't see it as men getting into a scuffle with each other because men can behave like prats (women fight and swear at each other just as well, if not better than men in some cases)
The point being addressed here is more like systematic downtreading of females due to their gender.
"Almost very woman has been sexually assualted in their life by a grown man who has acted like that because he knows he can get away with it"
- this could be from a sly grope on a packed train or taking upskirting photos through to someone pentrating a woman with his fingers into her through her pants in a nightclub - or grabbing them while they walk alone, or trapping them and making threatening remarks. (all of which have appeared on my LinkedIn feed)
Yes I am sure it happens the other way around but come on, do you really think it's quite as widespread?
Likewise I am not trying to antagonise you - but I am surprised you can't see this for what it is. This isn't "part of growing up" (your schoolboy analogy) or "boys being boys" (or girls being girls) - your one about people generally fighting.
I want to live in a fair and balanced society and therefore I believe the solution is based in challenging cultural norms and education. For sure enforce the example of a women getting penetrated by a man in a nightclub as this is a serious sexual assault but expecting the lower level stuff to be sorted by the criminal justice system is a fools errand that won't resolve the issue facing women.
If women banded together and started posting up the shit they are dealing with and identifying the individuals locally a lot of this stuff would start to come down. When that wolf whistling builder has got his mug on the local facebook page he might think twice. We have never had a better technological edge to hold people accountable for their actions. I don't get why it is not used more. In my local area people who don't pick up their dog poo are being named and shamed on the local Facebook page and guess what they rarely get caught twice.1 -
I also wonder what one can do to improve (worsen?) people's chances of getting caught so they can't get away with it.0
-
The 'everyday' incidents that many women never even mention because they're so common definitely need highlighting to show the scale of the problem, and also highlight what is and isn't acceptable.john80 said:
You can't solve this through criminal punishment and the police. For one they struggle to deal with serious crime so they don't have the resources to do this and never will and you and others see there is a balance between what your taxes can pay for and the freedoms you would like to have. For second when you start to put the low level stuff in front of a jury they won't convict as it is a jury of society filled with their inherent bias.shirley_basso said:
I get it and thank you for your comments. I am not in the business of self flagellating either - I don't blame myself for how women are treated or feel - but this incident has raised awareness of it. I also have no solutions. I am just trying to ask you to see it from a womens point of view, how horrific it is, and ask yourself - how did it get to this?john80 said:
Look I am not trying to antagonise you here but you must see that there is a threshold issue here. How many boys got into a fight at school as an experience. This is an assault and therefore I would hazard a guess that most men that you speak to have been assaulted. If we brought in verbal abuse we would find that it must be easily at 100% of males have been verbally abused. So when you say that every woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted it is a very low bar and is not helpful to the discussion.shirley_basso said:
You're missing the point.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
Women are attacked and harrassed wherever they go - in the workplace, nightclubs, shops, the street, taxis etc. Almost every single woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted. They also rarely report the cases as there's relatively little than can be done (bad) or worse - have started to accept it as a fact of life.
Just because a woman isn't raped or murdered - doesn't mean they haven't been chased, attacked, sworn at, grabbed and assaulted. Women are ALWAYS having to think about 'what if' - and have started to view every single man as a possible threat.
Is that fair / right / equal?
I find your inability to see this from someone elses viewpoint quite odd.
As for Seanoconn's comment - what can you say? Pretty selfish outlook. Aren't we all glad you haven't been grabbed by the censored , sworn at and chased down the street in broad daylight by by some aggressive stranger.
Or to both of you - try this angle - let's say that a woman saw you and immediately was terrified of you - regardless if you were benign or wanted to help. She immediately started putting her keys between her knuckles to use as a weapon, started looking to escape routes etc etc. Is there no part of you that would want to change how half the population potenially saw you?
As for your last paragraph when I go about my daily business and I doubt many if any women are scared of me. So what do you want me to change when I get in my car to go to an engineering office everyday or go to the shops in my middle aged clothes. You are starting to get into the fever pitch where what are we to do as males. It is funny that when I was in school the girls invariably fancied the taller and stronger than average classmate who was beating up the geeky nerd. Surely if they are all bricking themselves they would be chasing the non threatening nerd. You have literally no solutions that are credible.
The issue is massively more complicated than men are the problem hand wringing. We are walking into a ticking time bomb of negative attitudes to women simply by allowing free and easy access to porn with what is likely a glib chat in school for a couple of hours about consent. We have a more equal society for women than we have ever had yet are things improving. If we keep lowering the threshold then maybe it never will. Girls are doing better in school than boys yet we still have a relatively high number of self conscious teenage girls seemingly willing to do anything for their boyfriends. Go figure as I don't get it.
I guess I don't see it as men getting into a scuffle with each other because men can behave like prats (women fight and swear at each other just as well, if not better than men in some cases)
The point being addressed here is more like systematic downtreading of females due to their gender.
"Almost very woman has been sexually assualted in their life by a grown man who has acted like that because he knows he can get away with it"
- this could be from a sly grope on a packed train or taking upskirting photos through to someone pentrating a woman with his fingers into her through her pants in a nightclub - or grabbing them while they walk alone, or trapping them and making threatening remarks. (all of which have appeared on my LinkedIn feed)
Yes I am sure it happens the other way around but come on, do you really think it's quite as widespread?
Likewise I am not trying to antagonise you - but I am surprised you can't see this for what it is. This isn't "part of growing up" (your schoolboy analogy) or "boys being boys" (or girls being girls) - your one about people generally fighting.
I want to live in a fair and balanced society and therefore I believe the solution is based in challenging cultural norms and education. For sure enforce the example of a women getting penetrated by a man in a nightclub as this is a serious sexual assault but expecting the lower level stuff to be sorted by the criminal justice system is a fools errand that won't resolve the issue facing women.
If women banded together and started posting up the censored they are dealing with and identifying the individuals locally a lot of this stuff would start to come down. When that wolf whistling builder has got his mug on the local facebook page he might think twice. We have never had a better technological edge to hold people accountable for their actions. I don't get why it is not used more. In my local area people who don't pick up their dog poo are being named and shamed on the local Facebook page and guess what they rarely get caught twice.
The issue with posting stuff on facebook etc is it leads to vigilante action - who knows for sure whether the bloke who's been flamed on there genuinely committed what he's accused of, or is his ex just annoyed at him and using the platform to get revenge.
Look at the cases of people falsely accused of being paedophiles etc., or the case of Christopher Jefferies.0 -
What precautions do you take in your day to day life to avoid being raped or sexually assaulted?david37 said:DeVlaeminck said:It's important to acknowledge that men do suffer domestic abuse, men do get raped and it is every bit as bad for them as for the women it happens to.
That said it's probably not something that affects you unless you've actually suffered it. I don't modify my behaviour to avoid getting attacked - I'd guess most women do. Ok I do modify it a bit - I wouldn't walk around some estates in London at night - but the extent to which I do is far less than most women.
what you're describing is perception of danger or threat. not necessarily the increased prevalence or potential of danger
Perhaps the answer is for people to toughen up“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
tailwindhome said:
What precautions do you take in your day to day life to avoid being raped or sexually assaulted?david37 said:DeVlaeminck said:It's important to acknowledge that men do suffer domestic abuse, men do get raped and it is every bit as bad for them as for the women it happens to.
That said it's probably not something that affects you unless you've actually suffered it. I don't modify my behaviour to avoid getting attacked - I'd guess most women do. Ok I do modify it a bit - I wouldn't walk around some estates in London at night - but the extent to which I do is far less than most women.
what you're describing is perception of danger or threat. not necessarily the increased prevalence or potential of danger
Perhaps the answer is for people to toughen up
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.2 -
Not really if you ignore the stuff with no evidence. Posting a video of a guy following a woman and shouting stuff at her is a difficult one to explain away.yorkshireraw said:
The 'everyday' incidents that many women never even mention because they're so common definitely need highlighting to show the scale of the problem, and also highlight what is and isn't acceptable.john80 said:
You can't solve this through criminal punishment and the police. For one they struggle to deal with serious crime so they don't have the resources to do this and never will and you and others see there is a balance between what your taxes can pay for and the freedoms you would like to have. For second when you start to put the low level stuff in front of a jury they won't convict as it is a jury of society filled with their inherent bias.shirley_basso said:
I get it and thank you for your comments. I am not in the business of self flagellating either - I don't blame myself for how women are treated or feel - but this incident has raised awareness of it. I also have no solutions. I am just trying to ask you to see it from a womens point of view, how horrific it is, and ask yourself - how did it get to this?john80 said:
Look I am not trying to antagonise you here but you must see that there is a threshold issue here. How many boys got into a fight at school as an experience. This is an assault and therefore I would hazard a guess that most men that you speak to have been assaulted. If we brought in verbal abuse we would find that it must be easily at 100% of males have been verbally abused. So when you say that every woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted it is a very low bar and is not helpful to the discussion.shirley_basso said:
You're missing the point.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
Women are attacked and harrassed wherever they go - in the workplace, nightclubs, shops, the street, taxis etc. Almost every single woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted. They also rarely report the cases as there's relatively little than can be done (bad) or worse - have started to accept it as a fact of life.
Just because a woman isn't raped or murdered - doesn't mean they haven't been chased, attacked, sworn at, grabbed and assaulted. Women are ALWAYS having to think about 'what if' - and have started to view every single man as a possible threat.
Is that fair / right / equal?
I find your inability to see this from someone elses viewpoint quite odd.
As for Seanoconn's comment - what can you say? Pretty selfish outlook. Aren't we all glad you haven't been grabbed by the censored , sworn at and chased down the street in broad daylight by by some aggressive stranger.
Or to both of you - try this angle - let's say that a woman saw you and immediately was terrified of you - regardless if you were benign or wanted to help. She immediately started putting her keys between her knuckles to use as a weapon, started looking to escape routes etc etc. Is there no part of you that would want to change how half the population potenially saw you?
As for your last paragraph when I go about my daily business and I doubt many if any women are scared of me. So what do you want me to change when I get in my car to go to an engineering office everyday or go to the shops in my middle aged clothes. You are starting to get into the fever pitch where what are we to do as males. It is funny that when I was in school the girls invariably fancied the taller and stronger than average classmate who was beating up the geeky nerd. Surely if they are all bricking themselves they would be chasing the non threatening nerd. You have literally no solutions that are credible.
The issue is massively more complicated than men are the problem hand wringing. We are walking into a ticking time bomb of negative attitudes to women simply by allowing free and easy access to porn with what is likely a glib chat in school for a couple of hours about consent. We have a more equal society for women than we have ever had yet are things improving. If we keep lowering the threshold then maybe it never will. Girls are doing better in school than boys yet we still have a relatively high number of self conscious teenage girls seemingly willing to do anything for their boyfriends. Go figure as I don't get it.
I guess I don't see it as men getting into a scuffle with each other because men can behave like prats (women fight and swear at each other just as well, if not better than men in some cases)
The point being addressed here is more like systematic downtreading of females due to their gender.
"Almost very woman has been sexually assualted in their life by a grown man who has acted like that because he knows he can get away with it"
- this could be from a sly grope on a packed train or taking upskirting photos through to someone pentrating a woman with his fingers into her through her pants in a nightclub - or grabbing them while they walk alone, or trapping them and making threatening remarks. (all of which have appeared on my LinkedIn feed)
Yes I am sure it happens the other way around but come on, do you really think it's quite as widespread?
Likewise I am not trying to antagonise you - but I am surprised you can't see this for what it is. This isn't "part of growing up" (your schoolboy analogy) or "boys being boys" (or girls being girls) - your one about people generally fighting.
I want to live in a fair and balanced society and therefore I believe the solution is based in challenging cultural norms and education. For sure enforce the example of a women getting penetrated by a man in a nightclub as this is a serious sexual assault but expecting the lower level stuff to be sorted by the criminal justice system is a fools errand that won't resolve the issue facing women.
If women banded together and started posting up the censored they are dealing with and identifying the individuals locally a lot of this stuff would start to come down. When that wolf whistling builder has got his mug on the local facebook page he might think twice. We have never had a better technological edge to hold people accountable for their actions. I don't get why it is not used more. In my local area people who don't pick up their dog poo are being named and shamed on the local Facebook page and guess what they rarely get caught twice.
The issue with posting stuff on facebook etc is it leads to vigilante action - who knows for sure whether the bloke who's been flamed on there genuinely committed what he's accused of, or is his ex just annoyed at him and using the platform to get revenge.
Look at the cases of people falsely accused of being paedophiles etc., or the case of Christopher Jefferies.
Joe Bloggs called me a fat slag last night outside the dog and duck has not got the same gravitas as a post nor is it likely to get much attention.0 -
totally this. its what really happens not what pansy virtuosity says happensjohn80 said:
Look I am not trying to antagonise you here but you must see that there is a threshold issue here. How many boys got into a fight at school as an experience. This is an assault and therefore I would hazard a guess that most men that you speak to have been assaulted. If we brought in verbal abuse we would find that it must be easily at 100% of males have been verbally abused. So when you say that every woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted it is a very low bar and is not helpful to the discussion.shirley_basso said:
You're missing the point.john80 said:
The problem you have with your argument is that these serious attacks on both men and women are rare. So if you know a 100 people that you went to Uni with and they all spent their time getting wasted and roaming the streets with scant regards to their surrounding then unless they act deliberately aggressively to others they are likely to never be assaulted or raped just on the numbers alone. This is why I think the issue is more about the fear of this than the reality. Around 700 homicides happened up to March of 2020 and about 1700 people died in 2019 in RTA's. You should be over twice as worried of being killed in your car or by a car than you are of being murdered and yet many women get in cars and allow themselves to be driven by men.shirley_basso said:
I can't tell if you're accidentally or deliberately missing the point.DeVlaeminck said:I can see how Caitlin Moran assumes men would know other men like the ones she describes - I admit I have in the past - but right now no I don't think I know any. In most social circles people that act in such a way would be ostracised - so if that's how they do act they hide it.
The other thing is I suspect women are no more likely to ostracise men with that kind of history than men are. As a man I don't think I'm better placed to solve the problem than she is. I'm not saying I don't have a responsibility but it's a responsibility as a person rather than as a man, a parent rather than as a father.
It's like the chivalry idea that came up earlier - not for me - in some ways the idea you should act differently towards someone just because of their sex has the same roots as this whole issue. Act decently towards everyone if you can and that includes offering protection to those who need it if you can.
To turn it around:
Why SHOULD women have to be with men or be in groups?
Men can stroll around on their own in the dark and it's fine (I have never been attacked / chased or anything - and I used to be the overly drunk reprobate who would wonder the streets wasted finding a taxi / kebab shop).
Women should be able to walk around when and where they want without being in fear.
YES there will be incidents BUT, to draw a parallel with men - it should be the exception, not the norm.
So in summary my view is that in a normal part of Britain women should not be that concerned about being killed or raped by a stranger and be more concerned by being harmed by those they know as this is where the real danger is statistically. Men should definitely be nipping in the bud when they can safely the cat calling and other behaviors that impact women's day to day lives but so do women. If 20 women on a train stood up to that clown hassling a women, videoed him and then worked together to report these instances to the police this it would seem to me is a better use of their time than breaking covid rules with their vigils.
Everyone is responsible for the environment around them not just men when it is clearly a minority that are hassling women.
Women are attacked and harrassed wherever they go - in the workplace, nightclubs, shops, the street, taxis etc. Almost every single woman you have ever met has been verbally or physically assaulted. They also rarely report the cases as there's relatively little than can be done (bad) or worse - have started to accept it as a fact of life.
Just because a woman isn't raped or murdered - doesn't mean they haven't been chased, attacked, sworn at, grabbed and assaulted. Women are ALWAYS having to think about 'what if' - and have started to view every single man as a possible threat.
Is that fair / right / equal?
I find your inability to see this from someone elses viewpoint quite odd.
As for Seanoconn's comment - what can you say? Pretty selfish outlook. Aren't we all glad you haven't been grabbed by the censored , sworn at and chased down the street in broad daylight by by some aggressive stranger.
Or to both of you - try this angle - let's say that a woman saw you and immediately was terrified of you - regardless if you were benign or wanted to help. She immediately started putting her keys between her knuckles to use as a weapon, started looking to escape routes etc etc. Is there no part of you that would want to change how half the population potenially saw you?
As for your last paragraph when I go about my daily business and I doubt many if any women are scared of me. So what do you want me to change when I get in my car to go to an engineering office everyday or go to the shops in my middle aged clothes. You are starting to get into the fever pitch where what are we to do as males. It is funny that when I was in school the girls invariably fancied the taller and stronger than average classmate who was beating up the geeky nerd. Surely if they are all bricking themselves they would be chasing the non threatening nerd. You have literally no solutions that are credible.
The issue is massively more complicated than men are the problem hand wringing. We are walking into a ticking time bomb of negative attitudes to women simply by allowing free and easy access to porn with what is likely a glib chat in school for a couple of hours about consent. We have a more equal society for women than we have ever had yet are things improving. If we keep lowering the threshold then maybe it never will. Girls are doing better in school than boys yet we still have a relatively high number of self conscious teenage girls seemingly willing to do anything for their boyfriends. Go figure as I don't get it.
0 -
Im not a loser. these issues don't present themselves.tailwindhome said:
What precautions do you take in your day to day life to avoid being raped or sexually assaulted?david37 said:DeVlaeminck said:It's important to acknowledge that men do suffer domestic abuse, men do get raped and it is every bit as bad for them as for the women it happens to.
That said it's probably not something that affects you unless you've actually suffered it. I don't modify my behaviour to avoid getting attacked - I'd guess most women do. Ok I do modify it a bit - I wouldn't walk around some estates in London at night - but the extent to which I do is far less than most women.
what you're describing is perception of danger or threat. not necessarily the increased prevalence or potential of danger
Perhaps the answer is for people to toughen up
My wife doesn't take any precautions either. She travelled extensively through South America. Other than being armed when appropriate she took no more precautions than males.
no one is denying there are arseholes in society. but there is a perception and screaming victimhood which doesn't reflect reality.
0 -
Who said it wasn't complicated?0
-
So to clarify - are you saying that only losers get raped or sexually assualted?0
-
Full English before the Fathers for Justice protest.blazing_saddles said:tailwindhome said:
What precautions do you take in your day to day life to avoid being raped or sexually assaulted?david37 said:DeVlaeminck said:It's important to acknowledge that men do suffer domestic abuse, men do get raped and it is every bit as bad for them as for the women it happens to.
That said it's probably not something that affects you unless you've actually suffered it. I don't modify my behaviour to avoid getting attacked - I'd guess most women do. Ok I do modify it a bit - I wouldn't walk around some estates in London at night - but the extent to which I do is far less than most women.
what you're describing is perception of danger or threat. not necessarily the increased prevalence or potential of danger
Perhaps the answer is for people to toughen up
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1 -
He's saying "not enough talk about david37 on this thread".shirley_basso said:So to clarify - are you saying that only losers get raped or sexually assualted?
0 -
Reallydavid37 said:
Im not a loser. these issues don't present themselves.tailwindhome said:
What precautions do you take in your day to day life to avoid being raped or sexually assaulted?david37 said:DeVlaeminck said:It's important to acknowledge that men do suffer domestic abuse, men do get raped and it is every bit as bad for them as for the women it happens to.
That said it's probably not something that affects you unless you've actually suffered it. I don't modify my behaviour to avoid getting attacked - I'd guess most women do. Ok I do modify it a bit - I wouldn't walk around some estates in London at night - but the extent to which I do is far less than most women.
what you're describing is perception of danger or threat. not necessarily the increased prevalence or potential of danger
Perhaps the answer is for people to toughen up
My wife doesn't take any precautions either. She travelled extensively through South America. Other than being armed when appropriate she took no more precautions than males.
Your wife never takes any precautions?
None at all?
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
are you anti catholic too?tailwindhome said:
Reallydavid37 said:
Im not a loser. these issues don't present themselves.tailwindhome said:
What precautions do you take in your day to day life to avoid being raped or sexually assaulted?david37 said:DeVlaeminck said:It's important to acknowledge that men do suffer domestic abuse, men do get raped and it is every bit as bad for them as for the women it happens to.
That said it's probably not something that affects you unless you've actually suffered it. I don't modify my behaviour to avoid getting attacked - I'd guess most women do. Ok I do modify it a bit - I wouldn't walk around some estates in London at night - but the extent to which I do is far less than most women.
what you're describing is perception of danger or threat. not necessarily the increased prevalence or potential of danger
Perhaps the answer is for people to toughen up
My wife doesn't take any precautions either. She travelled extensively through South America. Other than being armed when appropriate she took no more precautions than males.
Your wife never takes any precautions?
None at all?
0 -
no but losers attract problems. real or imagined.shirley_basso said:So to clarify - are you saying that only losers get raped or sexually assualted?
0 -
Aye. OK“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
-
You sound remarkedly like that loser Donald Trump.david37 said:
no but losers attract problems. real or imagined.shirley_basso said:So to clarify - are you saying that only losers get raped or sexually assualted?
0
