Women's safety

Pross

rjsterry said:

This would seem to be relevant to the question of 'what can we do about it?'.

https://twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1375342907604017152?s=19

Link for those who don't like twitter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56529491

A friend told me after a few drinks that she was raped in her first year at Uni by two students on her course and had to see them more or less daily until she graduated. Didn't report it for the usual, understandable, reason that it was her word against theirs and there were two of them.

As far as I'm aware even her husband doesn't know as she's told a previous boyfriend when things got serious and he left her.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

Schools never seem to involve the police though. Physical assault, drug dealing etc. are always managed within the school. Not saying that is right, just that it is always the case.

They were called quite regularly to my daughters' school, I'd originally assumed some of the tales they came home with were exaggerated as it always had a reputation as a decent school and is fed my mainly suburban and rural middle class areas. However, my mate was in charge of the local police station for a while and confirmed most of the stories. Another friend was "embedded" at a different comprehensive school in the area with his own office there.

pblakeney

webboo said:

One of my mates got expelled from the local fee paying grammar school for drug dealing 50 years ago. He was selling Oxo cubes to the rich kids.

I'm wondering if the expulsion was for "drug dealing" or conning the silly rich kids.
What's worse, being caught as a drug user or being outed as stupid?

john80

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

This would seem to be relevant to the question of 'what can we do about it?'.

https://twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1375342907604017152?s=19

Link for those who don't like twitter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56529491

If the claims are true and the school did not address them then I don't see why your next stop would be the police. Bob keeps pestering me for naked selfies, I have reported this to the school and yet it continues. This is a clear crime is it not. The police would be within their rights to walk into that school and start seizing phones. When Bob and his mates phones are found to have pictures of naked girls on them good luck explaining that away. There is probably a 50:50 split of girls in that class and yet they can't get together as a group and with their parents and change the culture. There seems to be a view that justice and cultural change comes easy and by others driving it. What would Rosa Parks have to say about this.

So the school gets a pass and it's the teenagers' fault/responsibility for the school not dealing with it properly? I mean the school should be getting the police involved anyway to investigate at least some of these claims.

The school don't get a pass. They get the police presence and maybe even a media storm when they seek to cover things up. Schools have agendas and it often is not aligned with the best interest of pupils like any organisation.

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

This would seem to be relevant to the question of 'what can we do about it?'.

https://twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1375342907604017152?s=19

Link for those who don't like twitter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56529491

If the claims are true and the school did not address them then I don't see why your next stop would be the police. Bob keeps pestering me for naked selfies, I have reported this to the school and yet it continues. This is a clear crime is it not. The police would be within their rights to walk into that school and start seizing phones. When Bob and his mates phones are found to have pictures of naked girls on them good luck explaining that away. There is probably a 50:50 split of girls in that class and yet they can't get together as a group and with their parents and change the culture. There seems to be a view that justice and cultural change comes easy and by others driving it. What would Rosa Parks have to say about this.

So the school gets a pass and it's the teenagers' fault/responsibility for the school not dealing with it properly? I mean the school should be getting the police involved anyway to investigate at least some of these claims.

The school don't get a pass. They get the police presence and maybe even a media storm when they seek to cover things up. Schools have agendas and it often is not aligned with the best interest of pupils like any organisation.

I mean obviously, but they have a legal duty of care to their students. It shouldn't be up to children to hold the people who are supposed to be caring for them to account.

john80

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

This would seem to be relevant to the question of 'what can we do about it?'.

https://twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1375342907604017152?s=19

Link for those who don't like twitter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56529491

If the claims are true and the school did not address them then I don't see why your next stop would be the police. Bob keeps pestering me for naked selfies, I have reported this to the school and yet it continues. This is a clear crime is it not. The police would be within their rights to walk into that school and start seizing phones. When Bob and his mates phones are found to have pictures of naked girls on them good luck explaining that away. There is probably a 50:50 split of girls in that class and yet they can't get together as a group and with their parents and change the culture. There seems to be a view that justice and cultural change comes easy and by others driving it. What would Rosa Parks have to say about this.

So the school gets a pass and it's the teenagers' fault/responsibility for the school not dealing with it properly? I mean the school should be getting the police involved anyway to investigate at least some of these claims.

The school don't get a pass. They get the police presence and maybe even a media storm when they seek to cover things up. Schools have agendas and it often is not aligned with the best interest of pupils like any organisation.

I mean obviously, but they have a legal duty of care to their students. It shouldn't be up to children to hold the people who are supposed to be caring for them to account.

This is the problem with boundary shifts and technology. I look back on my youth and am thankful that camera phones were not available. The point is that if you want to drive the problem down then sometimes you have to out it. This is uncomfortable for those pushing back. It always has been and it always will.

rick_chasey

I’m sure we’re all grateful teenage john80 did not have a camera phone

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

This would seem to be relevant to the question of 'what can we do about it?'.

https://twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1375342907604017152?s=19

Link for those who don't like twitter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56529491

If the claims are true and the school did not address them then I don't see why your next stop would be the police. Bob keeps pestering me for naked selfies, I have reported this to the school and yet it continues. This is a clear crime is it not. The police would be within their rights to walk into that school and start seizing phones. When Bob and his mates phones are found to have pictures of naked girls on them good luck explaining that away. There is probably a 50:50 split of girls in that class and yet they can't get together as a group and with their parents and change the culture. There seems to be a view that justice and cultural change comes easy and by others driving it. What would Rosa Parks have to say about this.

So the school gets a pass and it's the teenagers' fault/responsibility for the school not dealing with it properly? I mean the school should be getting the police involved anyway to investigate at least some of these claims.

The school don't get a pass. They get the police presence and maybe even a media storm when they seek to cover things up. Schools have agendas and it often is not aligned with the best interest of pupils like any organisation.

I mean obviously, but they have a legal duty of care to their students. It shouldn't be up to children to hold the people who are supposed to be caring for them to account.

This is the problem with boundary shifts and technology. I look back on my youth and am thankful that camera phones were not available. The point is that if you want to drive the problem down then sometimes you have to out it. This is uncomfortable for those pushing back. It always has been and it always will.

I think it's a bit more than just a few naked selfies doing the rounds. In any case camera phones have been around for 20 years; it's not a new tech problem it's a people not doing their job problem.

DeVlaeminck

Just watched a documentary about miss world in 1970 and the women's lib protests around it. It's interesting how in some ways at least things have moved on quite a bit - but would girls at school back then have been subject to anything like the culture described at Highgate School ?

john80

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

This would seem to be relevant to the question of 'what can we do about it?'.

https://twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1375342907604017152?s=19

Link for those who don't like twitter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56529491

If the claims are true and the school did not address them then I don't see why your next stop would be the police. Bob keeps pestering me for naked selfies, I have reported this to the school and yet it continues. This is a clear crime is it not. The police would be within their rights to walk into that school and start seizing phones. When Bob and his mates phones are found to have pictures of naked girls on them good luck explaining that away. There is probably a 50:50 split of girls in that class and yet they can't get together as a group and with their parents and change the culture. There seems to be a view that justice and cultural change comes easy and by others driving it. What would Rosa Parks have to say about this.

So the school gets a pass and it's the teenagers' fault/responsibility for the school not dealing with it properly? I mean the school should be getting the police involved anyway to investigate at least some of these claims.

The school don't get a pass. They get the police presence and maybe even a media storm when they seek to cover things up. Schools have agendas and it often is not aligned with the best interest of pupils like any organisation.

I mean obviously, but they have a legal duty of care to their students. It shouldn't be up to children to hold the people who are supposed to be caring for them to account.

This is the problem with boundary shifts and technology. I look back on my youth and am thankful that camera phones were not available. The point is that if you want to drive the problem down then sometimes you have to out it. This is uncomfortable for those pushing back. It always has been and it always will.

I think it's a bit more than just a few naked selfies doing the rounds. In any case camera phones have been around for 20 years; it's not a new tech problem it's a people not doing their job problem.

Much as I admire your view that teachers can patrol the safety of their pupils on the internet and between each other I think teachers only get involved when they identify a problem. At this point it is probably too late.

david37

pblakeney said:

webboo said:

One of my mates got expelled from the local fee paying grammar school for drug dealing 50 years ago. He was selling Oxo cubes to the rich kids.

I'm wondering if the expulsion was for "drug dealing" or conning the silly rich kids.
What's worse, being caught as a drug user or being outed as stupid?

at least his parents could probably afford to send him to a decent school afterwards rather than condemn him by sending him to a school fully of silly poor kids.

pblakeney

david37 said:

pblakeney said:

webboo said:

One of my mates got expelled from the local fee paying grammar school for drug dealing 50 years ago. He was selling Oxo cubes to the rich kids.

I'm wondering if the expulsion was for "drug dealing" or conning the silly rich kids.
What's worse, being caught as a drug user or being outed as stupid?

at least his parents could probably afford to send him to a decent school afterwards rather than condemn him by sending him to a school fully of silly poor kids.

One for the irony thread?

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

This would seem to be relevant to the question of 'what can we do about it?'.

https://twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1375342907604017152?s=19

Link for those who don't like twitter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56529491

If the claims are true and the school did not address them then I don't see why your next stop would be the police. Bob keeps pestering me for naked selfies, I have reported this to the school and yet it continues. This is a clear crime is it not. The police would be within their rights to walk into that school and start seizing phones. When Bob and his mates phones are found to have pictures of naked girls on them good luck explaining that away. There is probably a 50:50 split of girls in that class and yet they can't get together as a group and with their parents and change the culture. There seems to be a view that justice and cultural change comes easy and by others driving it. What would Rosa Parks have to say about this.

So the school gets a pass and it's the teenagers' fault/responsibility for the school not dealing with it properly? I mean the school should be getting the police involved anyway to investigate at least some of these claims.

The school don't get a pass. They get the police presence and maybe even a media storm when they seek to cover things up. Schools have agendas and it often is not aligned with the best interest of pupils like any organisation.

I mean obviously, but they have a legal duty of care to their students. It shouldn't be up to children to hold the people who are supposed to be caring for them to account.

This is the problem with boundary shifts and technology. I look back on my youth and am thankful that camera phones were not available. The point is that if you want to drive the problem down then sometimes you have to out it. This is uncomfortable for those pushing back. It always has been and it always will.

I think it's a bit more than just a few naked selfies doing the rounds. In any case camera phones have been around for 20 years; it's not a new tech problem it's a people not doing their job problem.

Much as I admire your view that teachers can patrol the safety of their pupils on the internet and between each other I think teachers only get involved when they identify a problem. At this point it is probably too late.

It requires a proactive rather than reactive approach. You don't wait until there's a problem before doing something - as you say, that's already too late. And it's not just use of the internet/social media, although that is of course part of it and needs to be part of the curriculum from primary school age (which thankfully it seems to be).

webboo

pblakeney said:

webboo said:

One of my mates got expelled from the local fee paying grammar school for drug dealing 50 years ago. He was selling Oxo cubes to the rich kids.

I'm wondering if the expulsion was for "drug dealing" or conning the silly rich kids.
What's worse, being caught as a drug user or being outed as stupid?

He was the scholarship kid.

DeVlaeminck

Cool name - sounds like some Wild West outlaw.

shirley_basso

Was there white chocolate involved?

seanoconn

david37 said:

pblakeney said:

webboo said:

One of my mates got expelled from the local fee paying grammar school for drug dealing 50 years ago. He was selling Oxo cubes to the rich kids.

I'm wondering if the expulsion was for "drug dealing" or conning the silly rich kids.
What's worse, being caught as a drug user or being outed as stupid?

at least his parents could probably afford to send him to a decent school afterwards rather than condemn him by sending him to a school fully of silly poor kids.

Interesting. What’s your background David? Thick rich kid or thick poor kid?

rjsterry

Seems like the DfE are taking this seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/dfe-warns-schools-could-be-closed-over-culture-claims

john80

rjsterry said:

Seems like the DfE are taking this seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/dfe-warns-schools-could-be-closed-over-culture-claims

So you close the school. Then what? Going to make an interesting conversation between 1200 kids parents who are now homeschooling again.

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

Seems like the DfE are taking this seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/dfe-warns-schools-could-be-closed-over-culture-claims

So you close the school. Then what? Going to make an interesting conversation between 1200 kids parents who are now homeschooling again.

I think that's the last resort. I'll assume I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be trying to let schools off one of their fundamental roles.

briantrumpet

It's drummed into us, frequently: first duty is to keep pupils safe and free from abuse of any kind; after that we can do all the educational stuff. We have an absolute legal duty to report any suspicions we have to our safeguarding officer, whatever the consequences.

john80

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

Seems like the DfE are taking this seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/dfe-warns-schools-could-be-closed-over-culture-claims

So you close the school. Then what? Going to make an interesting conversation between 1200 kids parents who are now homeschooling again.

I think that's the last resort. I'll assume I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be trying to let schools off one of their fundamental roles.

I am not letting them off but rather merely pointing out the failure of policy. Perhaps a better use of resources would be to have a standby team of school management that your deploy and essentially sack the people responsible for the failings. The argument has as much validity as shutting an A&E because care was poor and leaving people to die in the car park as a act of spite whilst leaving a government funded facility vacant.

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

Seems like the DfE are taking this seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/dfe-warns-schools-could-be-closed-over-culture-claims

So you close the school. Then what? Going to make an interesting conversation between 1200 kids parents who are now homeschooling again.

I think that's the last resort. I'll assume I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be trying to let schools off one of their fundamental roles.

I am not letting them off but rather merely pointing out the failure of policy. Perhaps a better use of resources would be to have a standby team of school management that your deploy and essentially sack the people responsible for the failings. The argument has as much validity as shutting an A&E because care was poor and leaving people to die in the car park as a act of spite whilst leaving a government funded facility vacant.

From my limited experience of seeing the local junior school go into special measures and then be converted to an academy with a new management team, I would imagine any physical closure of the school would be very limited and coordinated with school holidays.

shirley_basso

Not all men....

https://twitter.com/ginamartinuk/status/1369725871142092804?s=20

pinkbikini

You’re walking home at night. You have to walk along a pavement crawling with snakes. Not all of them are venomous.

elbowloh

pinkbikini said:

You’re walking home at night. You have to walk along a pavement crawling with snakes. Not all of them are venomous.

Who said Snakes? Why did it have to be snakes?

seanoconn

elbowloh said:

pinkbikini said:

You’re walking home at night. You have to walk along a pavement crawling with snakes. Not all of them are venomous.

Who said Snakes? Why did it have to be snakes?

God I hate snakes.

Hating men generally probably clouds ones judgment slightly.

david37

pinkbikini said:

You’re walking home at night. You have to walk along a pavement crawling with snakes. Not all of them are venomous.

you could use the same argument to justify victimising any group you choose.

david37

seanoconn said:

elbowloh said:

pinkbikini said:

You’re walking home at night. You have to walk along a pavement crawling with snakes. Not all of them are venomous.

Who said Snakes? Why did it have to be snakes?

God I hate snakes.

Hating men generally probably clouds ones judgment slightly.

being an idiot probably doesnt help you much either.

rjsterry

Such a joy watching the Met trying to pretend he was never really a police officer despite actually using his warrant card, and handcuffs to abduct Sarah Everard.