Other sports worth following
Comments
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surrey_commuter said:
Don't know enough about the subject so could I ask whether that is just a turn of phrase or whether we have been "unlucky"shirley_basso said:I quite like F1.
I am a keen sailor - but like others - only on regular monohull yachts and dinghies.
From experience in planing dinghies (Lazer 3000, 29er) you start going so fast, get planing, reducing drag and thus creating apparent wind. When you get a foiling hull you basically generate so little drag that you create insane amounts of apparent wind.
GB sailors have had a pretty unlucky 6m with the Vendee and now the AC.
Congrats to the Kiwis.
Vendee: British hopeful Alex Thomson, while leading, suffered near-catastrophic damage to his yacht, repaired it, then damaged another part and had to retire. Best female hopeful, Sam Davies, also suffered catastrophic failure and had to reture.
Americas Cup - annihilated during the practise races, did well during the Prada Cup, then Italy came back strong and trounced them in the final.
My take on the Vendee - it's too much down to luck, unfortunately, as damage to boats is so catastrophic as they are going so fast.
On the AC - the boat simply wasn't good enough, but the team more than made up for it on the more tactical races. Where the wind was consistant from one direction, tactics played a smaller part so it was a drag race and simply put, we couldn't keep up.0 -
Do you know what apparent wind is - i.e when you move forward, the wind appears to move to your front?rick_chasey said:
So they're going faster when the wind isn't directly behind them?morstar said:
Imagine you are water skiing.rick_chasey said:Yeah I'm not familiar with the physics of sailing 3x the speed of the wind, I have to say.
If you just follow straight behind the boat, you go exactly the same speed as the boat and travel the same distance.
Now start going in zig zags behind the boat.
You are now travelling further than the boat but boat speed remains the same, you now have to travel those zig zags faster than the boat.
Sailing is the same principle.
(I should add I do actually have a Dutch keelboat sailing licence. The vocab is quite different)
Cycling on a still day - wind feels like it comes from the front
Strong crosswinds - wind feels like cross-front (hence echelons rather than perfect horizontal lines across the road).
Sailing is much the same - you don't get much apparent wind on keelboats but it definitely is there and its very noticeable (and visible) if you are racing and have good instruments.
The faster you go, the more apparent wind you create, so the faster you can go - up to a point.
And yes - wind behind you is almost never the fastest point of sail.0 -
Yeah it makes sense.
I've always been in slow big fat keel boats so sailing close to the wind was always slow as the water drag was massive and sailing 'ruim' i.e. 3/4s downwind was always fastest.
I guess with these foil boats the water drag is actually really low so you can really build up some speed. Also explains why their sails are always tightly drawn, as at those speeds you're always sailing close to the wind.0 -
the sails act as a drag, when NZ put a smaller jib in a stronger wind they really motoredrick_chasey said:Yeah it makes sense.
I've always been in slow big fat keel boats so sailing close to the wind was always slow as the water drag was massive and sailing 'ruim' i.e. 3/4s downwind was always fastest.
I guess with these foil boats the water drag is actually really low so you can really build up some speed. Also explains why their sails are always tightly drawn, as at those speeds you're always sailing close to the wind.0 -
I wouldn't sit down and watch 2 hours of F1 these days (did a bit as a kid in the Prost / Senna days) but the Netflix 'Drive to Survive' series is a brilliant insight into the whole circus, and works even better if you don't know the race results. The 2020 season series lands on Friday.First.Aspect said:
I seem to be the only person who likes F1.brundonbianchi said:Formula E is pretty entertaining. Lots of proper racing, no Hamilton hour. That’s a winner.
I find it interesting that on a forum where the tiniest bit of tech is evaluated from a performance perspective, when in all likelihood it doesn't make the slightest difference, a sport where every bit of tech makes a performance difference is so derided.1 -
Also it's much better to have a small sail, well powered up, than to have a larger sail which isnt perfectly set.surrey_commuter said:
the sails act as a drag, when NZ put a smaller jib in a stronger wind they really motoredrick_chasey said:Yeah it makes sense.
I've always been in slow big fat keel boats so sailing close to the wind was always slow as the water drag was massive and sailing 'ruim' i.e. 3/4s downwind was always fastest.
I guess with these foil boats the water drag is actually really low so you can really build up some speed. Also explains why their sails are always tightly drawn, as at those speeds you're always sailing close to the wind.
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The only question is whether I can make this season last more than a week.yorkshireraw said:
I wouldn't sit down and watch 2 hours of F1 these days (did a bit as a kid in the Prost / Senna days) but the Netflix 'Drive to Survive' series is a brilliant insight into the whole circus, and works even better if you don't know the race results. The 2020 season series lands on Friday.First.Aspect said:
I seem to be the only person who likes F1.brundonbianchi said:Formula E is pretty entertaining. Lots of proper racing, no Hamilton hour. That’s a winner.
I find it interesting that on a forum where the tiniest bit of tech is evaluated from a performance perspective, when in all likelihood it doesn't make the slightest difference, a sport where every bit of tech makes a performance difference is so derided.1 -
Yeah makes sense.surrey_commuter said:
the sails act as a drag, when NZ put a smaller jib in a stronger wind they really motoredrick_chasey said:Yeah it makes sense.
I've always been in slow big fat keel boats so sailing close to the wind was always slow as the water drag was massive and sailing 'ruim' i.e. 3/4s downwind was always fastest.
I guess with these foil boats the water drag is actually really low so you can really build up some speed. Also explains why their sails are always tightly drawn, as at those speeds you're always sailing close to the wind.
Have to say, it's a looong way from this:
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It's probably a lot to do with balance - and not being overpowered.
I'll concede it's not the same, but in yachts, you can go faster in more wind with smaller sails up, as the boat is better balanced (front to rear and not being blown over sideways, which slows you down) and importantly, the sails are full and set properly.
When it's marginal between two sails, it's a heck of a lot of work pulling them down and putting them up again, but great fun.0 -
seanoconn said:
Golf, Players Championship.
How often does Lee Westwood lead or feature on the leaderboard after the first couple of rounds only to blow it by the last round! All the talent but very little of the grit required. Should have won a major by now.
Says age is catching up with him but that doesn’t account for the last 10 years.
Not good enough with the flat stick under pressure.
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Very true over the years although for once on Sunday it was his long game that deserted him, he was awful off the tee. He actually made a few good par saves with the putter.tetley10 said:seanoconn said:Golf, Players Championship.
How often does Lee Westwood lead or feature on the leaderboard after the first couple of rounds only to blow it by the last round! All the talent but very little of the grit required. Should have won a major by now.
Says age is catching up with him but that doesn’t account for the last 10 years.
Not good enough with the flat stick under pressure.0 -
The issue sailing has is that whilst the speeds and cost is going up the participation is falling. If you can't sail a high performance dinghy well then you won't even be able to get a foiling boat such as a moth around the course. The barriers to entry have got higher rather than lower and that is not good for any sport.0
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Agreed, but when you watch the best, when they need a putt, you never think they are going to miss. Watching LW, i'm surprised when he makes one.mrb123 said:
Very true over the years although for once on Sunday it was his long game that deserted him, he was awful off the tee. He actually made a few good par saves with the putter.tetley10 said:seanoconn said:Golf, Players Championship.
How often does Lee Westwood lead or feature on the leaderboard after the first couple of rounds only to blow it by the last round! All the talent but very little of the grit required. Should have won a major by now.
Says age is catching up with him but that doesn’t account for the last 10 years.
Not good enough with the flat stick under pressure.
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Still made plenty of small change from the game though, so he can't be too bad.0
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A case of the perception not matching reality. My non-sporty daughter enjoyed sailing so much on an Ellen MacCarthur Trust break that we looked into joining a local sailing club. It was far more accessible than I'd realisedrick_chasey said:Ah yes sailing, that famously working class sport.
http://www.llandegfedd.org.uk/club/membership.htm0 -
Maybe if you take your head out your arse and look back to the sixties when you could build a mirror in you living room for not much money and win the nationals if you had talent. I guess it is easier for you to pull the elitist card. You can still buy a GP14 for less than a lot of bikes at sportives and win your regional events. Again you will need some talent. Do you have any.rick_chasey said:Ah yes sailing, that famously working class sport.
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Sure. Sailing is spenny. You can always rely on a rich person to help people out, but let's not pretend it's not spenny.ddraver said:Whilst John calms down, you can also sail on someone else's yacht. Many keen boat owners are happy to have a keen young crew that turns up every week
I learned to sale in these which was all very civilised - make your picnic in the morning, sale all day, wash it late afternoon while a few of the guys make dinner, lovely.
Even that wasn't cheap.0 -
The link to a sailing club near me I posted above shows youth / junior membership being £20 per year and family membership being £95 per year which gives access to use of boats, instruction / race coaching and entry to club races. I don't know how cheap you want something to be!rick_chasey said:
Sure. Sailing is spenny. You can always rely on a rich person to help people out, but let's not pretend it's not spenny.ddraver said:Whilst John calms down, you can also sail on someone else's yacht. Many keen boat owners are happy to have a keen young crew that turns up every week
I learned to sale in these which was all very civilised - make your picnic in the morning, sale all day, wash it late afternoon while a few of the guys make dinner, lovely.
Even that wasn't cheap.
It really doesn't help a sport move away from being seen as elitist when people keep wrongly saying it isn't accessible.0 -
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Hanging out regularly on the coast of Argyll means you get to see a lot of very nice yachts sailing around.
But I don't know how many times I've seen yachts motoring up the Sound of Jura in perfect sailing conditions.
My opinion is that these boats should be confiscated and given over to the use of people who would actually appreciate them.
(this one is clearly OK)1 -
The Mirror was still being built into the late 70s - my father built M54566 in the living room over a winter - he loved building it. Thankfully it was small enough to get out the french doors, and easy enough to transport on the roof of the car.john80 said:
Maybe if you take your head out your censored and look back to the sixties when you could build a mirror in you living room for not much money and win the nationals if you had talent. I guess it is easier for you to pull the elitist card. You can still buy a GP14 for less than a lot of bikes at sportives and win your regional events. Again you will need some talent. Do you have any.rick_chasey said:Ah yes sailing, that famously working class sport.
Sailing per se needed be particularly expensive, and no more so than any other equipment based sport.
Yachting however is a different league altogether as far as owneship goes.0 -
I suspect many owners of said yachts have no idea how to actually sail them!bompington said:Hanging out regularly on the coast of Argyll means you get to see a lot of very nice yachts sailing around.
But I don't know how many times I've seen yachts motoring up the Sound of Jura in perfect sailing conditions.
My opinion is that these boats should be confiscated and given over to the use of people who would actually appreciate them.
(this one is clearly OK)0 -
Lovely.bompington said:Hanging out regularly on the coast of Argyll means you get to see a lot of very nice yachts sailing around.
But I don't know how many times I've seen yachts motoring up the Sound of Jura in perfect sailing conditions.
My opinion is that these boats should be confiscated and given over to the use of people who would actually appreciate them.
(this one is clearly OK)
I've not spent as much time in Scotland as I should have.
I had never been on holiday in Scotland until about 3 years ago when we stayed on Seil and also time on Mull. We then went again a couple of years back up to Inverness and up the coast a bit looking for dolphins. We were supposed to go to Skye and around the highlands last year, but obviously that got cancelled.
I think if we could, we'd now go at least once a year.0 -
I've seen a few videos on youtube of people who do up old under 40ft sailing yachts. They pretty much learn how to sail by themselves testing the boat in their country, then make the trip across the Atlantic. I do admire that.0
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Who are those guys who sailed from the Netherlands, with the hope of sailing across the atlantic, but had to be rescued about 7 times and then accidentally set their boat on fire?0
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Honestly, sailing in the North Sea or English Channel, super stressful.
Did it once, where I was the skipper. Never again.0
