Hour record attempt

yorkshireraw

You'd have to assume Ganna would beat Boardman's 'best human performance' or whatever it's now termed (his 56km in the 'superman' position).

The big milestone you could see Ineos supporting (like the sub 2 hour marathon) would be 60km in 60 minutes, but that does seem a stretch even for Ganna under the current regs.

pinno

The non-linear graph of input to output is such that physiology dictates a persons chances.
Blythe and co never mentioned the compression on the lower back going into the corner banking and it's fatiguing effect, plus pain. Wiggins did, Voigt did.
Would Ganna's size (as mentioned above) accentuate that issue to the point where a 1 hour effort would be unbearable?

The effort and preparation for the hour makes it only open to an exceptional few and on exceptionally rare occasions. Because of that, why we should treat it as some form of pinnacle that many in their prime should 'have a pop at', I have no idea.

Does the person who beats the hour record have a higher status than someone who wins an Alpe d'Huez stage of the TdF? If you see where I am coming from.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Are the modern days of power meter science making pros reluctant to try the hour record until their career is on the downturn, to prevent their opponents getting decent performance data?

RichN95.

yorkshireraw said:

The big milestone you could see Ineos supporting (like the sub 2 hour marathon) would be 60km in 60 minutes, but that does seem a stretch even for Ganna under the current regs.

That milestone has sort of been done already. The hour record for an upright bike is 60.61km done in the 80s. I can't find a picture of the bike. The derny paced record is 66.114km.

The ultimate human powered record is over 92km

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

pinno said:

'The pinnacle of professional cycling'. What is that? In cyclocross, the World Time Trial Championship, one of the GT's, the track league, race across America, an Olympic gold medal in whatever discipline, one of the monuments?

Not sure I understand your statement.
What percentage of youth cyclists aspire to the World hour record over say, a GT or a monument?

Ugo is saying he'd like it to have that status, not that it does. So the best time triallists of their day would all want to have a go while in their prime . As Merckx, Moser, Rominger, Indurain and Boardman did, but now it's lesser riders and those near retirement. Ganna can change that.

Yes, this...
With all respect to Campenaerts, Dowsett and Bingham, they're not exactly the three best time triallists in the world right now, otherwise they would have made the podium at the Worlds/Olympics...

TheBigBean

That's the reason I don't really get the point of TT bikes. It seems pretty arbitrary what is allowed and what isn't, so I feel like they should just use road bikes or ride recumbents.

bobmcstuff

pinno said:

Blythe and co never mentioned the compression on the lower back going into the corner banking and it's fatiguing effect, plus pain. Wiggins did, Voigt did.
Would Ganna's size (as mentioned above) accentuate that issue to the point where a 1 hour effort would be unbearable?

Yes that's one of the things Campenaerts mentioned. That and heat dissipation - apparently that could result in power dropping off, and it's worse for bigger guys since Ganna would need to be putting out *a lot* of watts.

But Campenaerts did still say he thought Ganna could take it.

pblakeney

pinno said:

ugo.santalucia said:

A valiant attempt, but I would like the Hour to be the pinnacle of professional cycling... I would like to see an athlete in his prime having a go (eg Ganna or Van Aert), rather than a last hurrah before retirement, as it has often been the case.

Improbable, given how much organisation and time out from the road scene a rider has to take, plus the risk of failure, getting DS's to agree to it and finding sponsorship, facilitators etc etc etc.

Surely an attempt in December (as an arbitrary pick) wouldn't impact much on the rest of the season

ugo.santalucia

pblakeney said:

pinno said:

ugo.santalucia said:

A valiant attempt, but I would like the Hour to be the pinnacle of professional cycling... I would like to see an athlete in his prime having a go (eg Ganna or Van Aert), rather than a last hurrah before retirement, as it has often been the case.

Improbable, given how much organisation and time out from the road scene a rider has to take, plus the risk of failure, getting DS's to agree to it and finding sponsorship, facilitators etc etc etc.

Surely an attempt in December (as an arbitrary pick) wouldn't impact much on the rest of the season

Probably not, but even athletes need time off to spend with their families

ugo.santalucia

bobmcstuff said:

pinno said:

Blythe and co never mentioned the compression on the lower back going into the corner banking and it's fatiguing effect, plus pain. Wiggins did, Voigt did.
Would Ganna's size (as mentioned above) accentuate that issue to the point where a 1 hour effort would be unbearable?

Yes that's one of the things Campenaerts mentioned. That and heat dissipation - apparently that could result in power dropping off, and it's worse for bigger guys since Ganna would need to be putting out *a lot* of watts.

But Campenaerts did still say he thought Ganna could take it.

Bringing heat capacity in the equation seems a lot of bollox, to be honest...

RichN95.

bobmcstuff said:

Campenaerts did outline some reasons why Ganna may have some issues with the hour compared to him and Dowsett - Ganna is a much bigger guy so he would have issues with heat buildup/dissipation in the velodrome. There's also some stuff about G forces in the corners and power modulation through the corners which is again a bigger issue the more mass you have.

On this point, I remember when Andrej Sosenka, who is 6'7", did the record (the 'Merckx bike' one), he did it on the Moscow velodrome which is a 333m track rather than the usual 250km presumably to reduce this problem.

Pross

bobmcstuff said:

pinno said:

Blythe and co never mentioned the compression on the lower back going into the corner banking and it's fatiguing effect, plus pain. Wiggins did, Voigt did.
Would Ganna's size (as mentioned above) accentuate that issue to the point where a 1 hour effort would be unbearable?

Yes that's one of the things Campenaerts mentioned. That and heat dissipation - apparently that could result in power dropping off, and it's worse for bigger guys since Ganna would need to be putting out *a lot* of watts.

But Campenaerts did still say he thought Ganna could take it.

Ganna would just wrap the distance up within 15 minutes so that doesn't become and issue then use the next 45 to just top it up a bit

andyp

RichN95. said:

bobmcstuff said:

Campenaerts did outline some reasons why Ganna may have some issues with the hour compared to him and Dowsett - Ganna is a much bigger guy so he would have issues with heat buildup/dissipation in the velodrome. There's also some stuff about G forces in the corners and power modulation through the corners which is again a bigger issue the more mass you have.

On this point, I remember when Andrej Sosenka, who is 6'7", did the record (the 'Merckx bike' one), he did it on the Moscow velodrome which is a 333m track rather than the usual 250km presumably to reduce this problem.

More likely it was so he was tested by friendly anti-doping officials.

MattFalle

andyp said:

RichN95. said:

bobmcstuff said:

Campenaerts did outline some reasons why Ganna may have some issues with the hour compared to him and Dowsett - Ganna is a much bigger guy so he would have issues with heat buildup/dissipation in the velodrome. There's also some stuff about G forces in the corners and power modulation through the corners which is again a bigger issue the more mass you have.

On this point, I remember when Andrej Sosenka, who is 6'7", did the record (the 'Merckx bike' one), he did it on the Moscow velodrome which is a 333m track rather than the usual 250km presumably to reduce this problem.

More likely it was so he was tested by friendly anti-doping officials.

Same as Wiggins then....

blazing_saddles

Davide Formolo has broken the world hour record.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/davide-formolo-rides-just-918m-to-set-new-shortest-hour-record

RichN95.

I find that strangely impressive

It was all action

https://twitter.com/DoCiclismo/status/1460739583574949889

bobmcstuff

I think that would have been easier on a fixie rather than a normal bike... Easier to trackstand innit.

andyp

bobmcstuff said:

I think that would have been easier on a fixie rather than a normal bike... Easier to trackstand innit.

I imagine the rules forbid trackstands, otherwise a skilled rider would just park it up and do about 20 cms.

dave__1

RichN95. said:

salsiccia1 said:

Interesting. He's a decent TTer and everything, but does he have a realistic chance of taking it?

Edit: I should say I'd be delighted to see him do it.

I would suggest that Campanaerts isn't really that much better as a TTer, so sure he's got a shot.

The big one will be when Ganna has a go. Late 2021 perhaps. He could threaten Boardman's 1996 record.

Rominger's hour is perhaps beyond Ganna. Rominger on 8.3kg bike with 60x13. The front wheel at 26inch is outwith today's rules but even boardman used 28 when 26 allowed

dave__1

Rominger was Ferrari prepared though

I see Armstrong this month saying clean Madond he did 450w for 30 minutes and on EPO 500w.

m.r.m.

At what weight?

bobmcstuff

Armstrong was around 75kg race weight wasn't he?

Not super relevant without the climb time as well, it's around 30 mins up there right for the top guys? Although 6.7 watts per kilo for anything over a few minutes is pretty wild tbh.

Edit: ah sorry I didn't read properly, missed the duration above.

dave__1

bobmcstuff said:

Armstrong was around 75kg race weight wasn't he?

Not super relevant without the climb time as well, it's around 30 mins up there right for the top guys? Although 6.7 watts per kilo for anything over a few minutes is pretty wild tbh.

Edit: ah sorry I didn't read properly, missed the duration above.

Armstrong says he clocked 7w per kg on epo/500 watts at 160lbs/72kg for 30 minutes on madone

Non epo he says 6.5w kg/450 for 30 minutes same climb. He says epo10%er
He said also his race weight 160lb to 165lb. Heavy guy.

I would guess Rominger was fast clean but cause of Ferrari it is best his record is gone

ugo.santalucia

pinno said:

Does the person who beats the hour record have a higher status than someone who wins an Alpe d'Huez stage of the TdF? If you see where I am coming from.

In my books yes... I remember all hour record holders since Merckx... I have no idea who won the Alpe d'Huez, other than Pantani, Armstrong... maybe Sastre?

ugo.santalucia

Interestingly, if I doped with EPO and improved by 10%... I would probably finish 140th, rather than 169th at the National Hill Climb Championship... hardly worth the hassle, to be honest

pblakeney

ugo.santalucia said:

Interestingly, if I doped with EPO and improved by 10%... I would probably finish 140th, rather than 169th at the National Hill Climb Championship... hardly worth the hassle, to be honest

That only applies if you were the only one doping.
And nobody else already is. 😉

pinno

ugo.santalucia said:

Interestingly, if I doped with EPO and improved by 10%... I would probably finish 140th, rather than 169th at the National Hill Climb Championship... hardly worth the hassle, to be honest

Have you tried 6 cans of Monster, 3 double espresso's and a fist full of gels before hand?

pinno

ugo.santalucia said:

pinno said:

Does the person who beats the hour record have a higher status than someone who wins an Alpe d'Huez stage of the TdF? If you see where I am coming from.

In my books yes... I remember all hour record holders since Merckx... I have no idea who won the Alpe d'Huez, other than Pantani, Armstrong... maybe Sastre?

You took my quote out of context slightly.

It's only open to a few who have:
The physiology required
The time
The sponsorship
The facility/facilities to prepare

It's like saying Mohammed Ali was the best boxer in the world.
Well, no - Sugar Ray Leonard was in a different weight category's so we cannot compare.

This particular pinnacle that is the hour record is beyond the reach of a majority of cyclists professional or otherwise and therefore is simply a niche event. In no way am I attempting to diminish it's status and at no point have I implied that.

Although looking at the World Hour and best human effort rules, it's a bit of a UCI driven mess.

Mad_Malx

pinno said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Interestingly, if I doped with EPO and improved by 10%... I would probably finish 140th, rather than 169th at the National Hill Climb Championship... hardly worth the hassle, to be honest

Have you tried 6 cans of Monster, 3 double espresso's and a fist full of gels before hand?

you will definately be in a hurry to get to the ablutions

m.r.m.

pinno said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Interestingly, if I doped with EPO and improved by 10%... I would probably finish 140th, rather than 169th at the National Hill Climb Championship... hardly worth the hassle, to be honest

Have you tried 6 cans of Monster, 3 double espresso's and a fist full of gels before hand?

Sounds like a Tom Dumoulin meal plan. 😉