2020 UCI Road World Championships, Imola - Sept 24th - 27th *Spoilers*

focuszing723

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

bobmcstuff said:

rick_chasey said:

*eyeroll*

I get why you want to encourage innovation at the top end, and no alternative is necessarily better, but when riders are not winning because their kit isn't 'fast' enough - me no like.

That's inescapable in the TT game, where aerodynamics is king.

To be fair though most teams just buy whatever is the fastest and de-badge it (GCN had something about this with one of the Ineos TT bikes where they were using an Aerocoach disc wheel and a something else front wheel, despite having... Shimano?... wheel sponsors).

I thought below post from Dowsett was quite interesting:

here with a story. This pic was from a great stage 8 of the 2013 giro. I’m not going to sit here and say “back then it was better back then because of xy&z” I wanted to talk about how the TT game has changed. Then and now. For the record I enjoy now much more, it’s tougher to be competitive but I enjoy the process so much more.
•
I’d put money on a hunch that no current rider could win a top tier TT in 2020 with this setup, of course you could then, and many won races with worse setups and some teams even now have worse setups than this still, but to be competitive in 2020 this pictured wouldn’t cut the mustard. This bike was a pinarello graal with an 8cm handlebar stem flipped to point upwards, bolt on handlebars, cables everywhere. Very staple lycra overshoes with very standard socks hanging out the top because fashion. The helmet was a stab in the dark because Kiriyenka used the same, the skinsuit was simply the smallest I could fit into, not a trip, fancy fabric or intentionally placed/thickened seam in sight
•
Now everything is measureable and quantifiable, access to testing is much more abundant and data is accessible. The net result is speeds are much higher. Outside of the pro scene you can see this by the speeds of the domestic TT scene. This became highly apparent to me at a test run at the maldon 10 just recently. That course has been a testing ground over the years, refining pacing and technique mostly, gauging fitness and bike position by trial and error. I always take race kit, but that’s gone up a notch and I took all the top end race kit recently as a worlds practice run.
•
Every component being rigourously tested for speed in a tunnel or on track, my position being refined in the tunnel and being told what position to make comfortable and work instead of directing my position myself. An 18 round there eluded me for a long time until a warm still ‘float night’ last year. But last week, not ideal conditions, bit cold, taking zero risks in the turn, satisfactory but not mind blowing watts, 18.59 was a surprise. And shows how much the game has changed. And I love it.

Even to me, who knows hardly anything about it, he looks pretty amateur in that photo compared to today.

Say what! That must be some p1ss take.

Which bit?

The bit about taking aerodynamics seriously by Dowsett.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

He knows what he's doing when it comes to aero.

Ummm.....

yorkshireraw

Was wondering Tom D flatted when he nearly stacked it - looked like he was coasting round a subsequent corner - maybe trying to work out if he needed to change bikes or could ride in the last couple of K? Lost a fair bit of time in the end

elbowloh

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

bobmcstuff said:

rick_chasey said:

*eyeroll*

I get why you want to encourage innovation at the top end, and no alternative is necessarily better, but when riders are not winning because their kit isn't 'fast' enough - me no like.

That's inescapable in the TT game, where aerodynamics is king.

To be fair though most teams just buy whatever is the fastest and de-badge it (GCN had something about this with one of the Ineos TT bikes where they were using an Aerocoach disc wheel and a something else front wheel, despite having... Shimano?... wheel sponsors).

I thought below post from Dowsett was quite interesting:

here with a story. This pic was from a great stage 8 of the 2013 giro. I’m not going to sit here and say “back then it was better back then because of xy&z” I wanted to talk about how the TT game has changed. Then and now. For the record I enjoy now much more, it’s tougher to be competitive but I enjoy the process so much more.
•
I’d put money on a hunch that no current rider could win a top tier TT in 2020 with this setup, of course you could then, and many won races with worse setups and some teams even now have worse setups than this still, but to be competitive in 2020 this pictured wouldn’t cut the mustard. This bike was a pinarello graal with an 8cm handlebar stem flipped to point upwards, bolt on handlebars, cables everywhere. Very staple lycra overshoes with very standard socks hanging out the top because fashion. The helmet was a stab in the dark because Kiriyenka used the same, the skinsuit was simply the smallest I could fit into, not a trip, fancy fabric or intentionally placed/thickened seam in sight
•
Now everything is measureable and quantifiable, access to testing is much more abundant and data is accessible. The net result is speeds are much higher. Outside of the pro scene you can see this by the speeds of the domestic TT scene. This became highly apparent to me at a test run at the maldon 10 just recently. That course has been a testing ground over the years, refining pacing and technique mostly, gauging fitness and bike position by trial and error. I always take race kit, but that’s gone up a notch and I took all the top end race kit recently as a worlds practice run.
•
Every component being rigourously tested for speed in a tunnel or on track, my position being refined in the tunnel and being told what position to make comfortable and work instead of directing my position myself. An 18 round there eluded me for a long time until a warm still ‘float night’ last year. But last week, not ideal conditions, bit cold, taking zero risks in the turn, satisfactory but not mind blowing watts, 18.59 was a surprise. And shows how much the game has changed. And I love it.

Even to me, who knows hardly anything about it, he looks pretty amateur in that photo compared to today.

Say what! That must be some p1ss take.

Which bit?

The bit about taking aerodynamics seriously by Dowsett.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

He knows what he's doing when it comes to aero.

Especially these ones

ddraver

^yeah I reckon so too. Looked like he'd knocked the effort off

rick_chasey

If I ever see WvA in the flesh.

blazing_saddles

rick_chasey said:

If I ever see WvA in the flesh.

She had much the same reaction.

DeadCalm

Thomas now red hot favourite for the Giro on that form. His non-selection for the Tour looking like a blessing in disguise.

gsk82

DeadCalm said:

Thomas now red hot favourite for the Giro on that form. His non-selection for the Tour looking like a blessing in disguise.

He definitely is.

I think theres now a big 4 in terms of grand tour general classification riders; Thomas, Roglic, Pogacar, Bernal. Thomas was my favourite for the tour until he came back from the break slow. I even put £10 on it.

blazing_saddles

Have to admit that when I was setting up the thread that Mercatone Uno's HQ is in Imola and so is home to this:

tailwindhome

I didn't know Pantani was a Pokémon

focuszing723

It looks like a pill to me 8-/

Matti66

Giant paper weight

proto

WvA did a pretty decent time for a s̶p̶r̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶C̶X̶ ̶r̶a̶c̶e̶r̶ ̶c̶l̶i̶m̶b̶e̶r̶ domestique!

ocdupalais

In the GB women squad there are 6 riders.
2 are called Anna.
2 are called Lizzie.
I bet the Barnes sisters are feeling a bit conspicuous that they’re both not called Hannah.
Or Alice.

RichN95.

ocdupalais said:

In the GB women squad there are 6 riders.
2 are called Anna.
2 are called Lizzie.
I bet the Barnes sisters are feeling a bit conspicuous that they’re both not called Hannah.
Or Alice.

Sadly the perfect British cyclist died in 1960

No_Ta_Doctor

I reckon there's about a 75% chance of the Women's RR being won by someone with a V in their name.

zest28

gsk82 said:

DeadCalm said:

Thomas now red hot favourite for the Giro on that form. His non-selection for the Tour looking like a blessing in disguise.

He definitely is.

I think theres now a big 4 in terms of grand tour general classification riders; Thomas, Roglic, Pogacar, Bernal. Thomas was my favourite for the tour until he came back from the break slow. I even put £10 on it.

Thomas was never slow. He was faster than other Ineos riders who went to the Tour so he was good enough to join.. There were other reasons Thomas did not go to the Tour ( probably because he did not want to help Bernal).

You also saw other Ineos riders basically not helping Bernal. Only when Bernal quit, the other Ineos riders all of sudden started showing themselves.

All the "Thomas was not good enough to ride the Tour" is just covering up what is really happening behind the scenes.

Kauto5

zest28 said:

gsk82 said:

DeadCalm said:

Thomas now red hot favourite for the Giro on that form. His non-selection for the Tour looking like a blessing in disguise.

He definitely is.

I think theres now a big 4 in terms of grand tour general classification riders; Thomas, Roglic, Pogacar, Bernal. Thomas was my favourite for the tour until he came back from the break slow. I even put £10 on it.

Thomas was never slow. He was faster than other Ineos riders who went to the Tour so he was good enough to join.. There were other reasons Thomas did not go to the Tour ( probably because he did not want to help Bernal).

You also saw other Ineos riders basically not helping Bernal. Only when Bernal quit, the other Ineos riders all of sudden started showing themselves.

All the "Thomas was not good enough to ride the Tour" is just covering up what is really happening behind the scenes.

Why would the other Ineos riders not want to put it all on the line for Bernal? Because of his age? That was certainly something that Thomas mentioned as him having a problem with in his documentary about the 2019 Tour. They all seem to speak highly of him as a person, maybe he's not a string enough personality to get everyone behind him?

gsk82

The two previous posts are just rubbish. The 2 riders who showed themselves after Bernal dropped out were the 2 who were there supporting him most before he did.

Thomas didn't say he didn't want to ride for Bernal. He didn't want to go to the tour as a support rider, knowing he wasn't fit enough to win, when he could wait 6 weeks and have a go for his own win at the giro. He's 34, he's been top 2 in his previous 2 tours. He has every right to demand leadership of a grand tour.

blazing_saddles

Thomas ruing the fact that he had no info during his ride, as his Garmin went AWOL.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/geraint-thomas-left-to-rue-missing-garmin-after-fourth-place-finish-in-worlds-time-trial/

zest28

Kauto5 said:

zest28 said:

gsk82 said:

DeadCalm said:

Thomas now red hot favourite for the Giro on that form. His non-selection for the Tour looking like a blessing in disguise.

He definitely is.

I think theres now a big 4 in terms of grand tour general classification riders; Thomas, Roglic, Pogacar, Bernal. Thomas was my favourite for the tour until he came back from the break slow. I even put £10 on it.

Thomas was never slow. He was faster than other Ineos riders who went to the Tour so he was good enough to join.. There were other reasons Thomas did not go to the Tour ( probably because he did not want to help Bernal).

You also saw other Ineos riders basically not helping Bernal. Only when Bernal quit, the other Ineos riders all of sudden started showing themselves.

All the "Thomas was not good enough to ride the Tour" is just covering up what is really happening behind the scenes.

Why would the other Ineos riders not want to put it all on the line for Bernal? Because of his age? That was certainly something that Thomas mentioned as him having a problem with in his documentary about the 2019 Tour. They all seem to speak highly of him as a person, maybe he's not a string enough personality to get everyone behind him?

No idea, but you could clearly see it. Carapez was doing absolutely nothing. But when Bernal dropped out, all of a sudden he had the legs to win stages.

My guess is, nobody really respects Bernal (Froome also decided to leave Ineos as he does not want to ride for Bernal).

zest28

gsk82 said:

The two previous posts are just rubbish. The 2 riders who showed themselves after Bernal dropped out were the 2 who were there supporting him most before he did.

Thomas didn't say he didn't want to ride for Bernal. He didn't want to go to the tour as a support rider, knowing he wasn't fit enough to win, when he could wait 6 weeks and have a go for his own win at the giro. He's 34, he's been top 2 in his previous 2 tours. He has every right to demand leadership of a grand tour.

Please, Carapez was doing nothing and he wasn't even helping Bernal that much. Just look how JV were helping out Roglic.

Caparez had the legs to do much more than he had been showing up until Bernal dropped out.

webboo

I see Zesties encyclopaedic knowledge of cycling racing continues to grow. I wonder why Sir Dave hasn’t signed him up.

zest28

webboo said:

I see Zesties encyclopaedic knowledge of cycling racing continues to grow. I wonder why Sir Dave hasn’t signed him up.

Who needs Sir Dave when all you need is the best rider. The 21-year old Pogacar without team support absolutely destroyed Sir Dave despite having the biggest budget in the sport.

In the end, it is all about who has the strongest legs.

webboo

I think you might find it’s not about who has the strongest legs as you never see a race being won by a power lifter.
Do carry on.

bobmcstuff

webboo said:

I see Zesties encyclopaedic knowledge of cycling racing continues to grow. I wonder why Sir Dave hasn’t signed him up.

Mind blowing isn't it.

zest28

webboo said:

I think you might find it’s not about who has the strongest legs as you never see a race being won by a power lifter.
Do carry on.

Pogacar was very weak right? Smashing everybody at 6.9W/kg in the climbs. We are talking about power numbers similar to Lance Armstrong and Contador here. The kid is a freak.

Pogacar won because he had the strongest legs, nobody was close to his power numbers. And JV couldn't handle those power numbers Pogacar was capable off. If Bernal had the legs of Pogacar, he would not have been destroyed by JV. Has nothing to do with Sir Dave.

And please, start doing some cycling yourself so that you stop embarrassing yourself making dumb comments bringing in powerlifters.

salsiccia1

zest28 said:

And please, start doing some cycling yourself so that you stop embarrassing yourself making dumb comments bringing in powerlifters.

So only people who do cycling themselves are qualified to comment on this, is that right? If we're going down that road, does this mean that only riders who have ridden elite-level or people who've been a DS can comment with credibility?

DeVlaeminck

To be fair when GotTheTeeShirt or Brian Smith used to post people did used to give their posts a bit more respect.

blazing_saddles

Anyhow, the women's race is on.............or rather it's supposed to be.
The front of the peloton riding like they are still in the neutral zone and the back already leaking a fair few riders.
They will be climbing off at the end of the first lap.

Nice and windy too, so maybe some echelon action later if the Dutch haven't already disposed of the rest.