TDF 2020 - Stage 21: Mantes-la-Jolie - Paris Champs-Élysées 122 km *Spoilers*
Comments
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We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver1 -
Not sure I'm on board with the narrative that Roglic threw it away. Right now it looks like he didn't think he ever had it and is relieved the worst finally happened.0
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I’m so pleased for Sam Bennett..... such an unassuming guy.
Nice too to see Ritchie Porte on the podium. What a TdF, such a refreshing change from the Sky/Ineos borefest, and long may this continue.
So it seems Covid has some benefits in the form of shaking up sports events !0 -
Oh...ddraver said:
This makes me miss my dad. He always had a soft spot for Porte so he'd be gutted he didn'g get to see him make the podium. Bl00dy Covid.Correlation is not causation.3 -
Yes it made a huge relief to not see a team controlling things on the front day after day. It really felt so very different.shipley said:I’m so pleased for Sam Bennett..... such an unassuming guy.
Nice too to see Ritchie Porte on the podium. What a TdF, such a refreshing change from the Sky/Ineos borefest, and long may this continue.
So it seems Covid has some benefits in the form of shaking up sports events !3 -
Long it probably will continue. And after Pogacar wins his eighth consecutive Tour you will be nostalgic of the good old Sky daysshipley said:
Nice too to see Ritchie Porte on the podium. What a TdF, such a refreshing change from the Sky/Ineos borefest, and long may this continue.
Twitter: @RichN953 -
above_the_cows said:
This makes me miss my dad. He always had a soft spot for Porte so he'd be gutted he didn'g get to see him make the podium. Bl00dy Covid.
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver1 -
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Yeah, but they didn't win anything and didn't use Colnagos.rick_chasey said:
I preferred the team when they were Lampre...
Coincidence? #joke. 😉
How could I ride in kit with Willier all over it?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I'm just referring to my own prejudice against UAE, which, in my limited experience, is an absolute hole.1
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If you forget about the political atrocities, it's actually quite a fun place to visit, in your mid-20s0
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What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Presumably the token black lives matter reference the Tour did.daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
After all, why bother with the hard work of improving the situation when you can just make some stand for the cameras?1 -
BLM anti-racist thing.daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
Although I saw a few riders being interviewed pre-stage with No To Racism written on their masks and WvA spoke very passionately about it both pre and post stage in the interviews I saw so... I don't know what was planned and what was not done, but there was something even if it was not a TV spectacle as maybe planned.Correlation is not causation.1 -
daniel_b said:
What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.Twitter: @RichN953 -
Spot on. If hold a banner you must be clean.RichN95. said:daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.0 -
I didn't mean he had a choice - poor phraseology on my part. I meant that the organisation's rules are such that riders who haven't won a particular jersey finish the race wearing it, as if they have in fact won it (yes, I know the green may still be up for grabs on the Champs Elysees).pblakeney said:
He didn't have a choice, it's an obligation. Didn't look too happy to me.jimmyjams said:
Yes. And No. For whatever reason, Carapaz got things wrong yesterday.pblakeney said:Is it just me that felt a little sorry for Carapaz having to wear the polka today?
Does seem a bit odd being allowed to wear the jersey on the last stage, though, as if he had won it. At least he can tell his grandchildren 'I finished the Tour in the polka dot jersey' and it won't be a lie (and they won't bother researching the exact details).
But similar has happened in the past too (last time 2015), same with the white jersey (last year), and in Merckx's day probably the green too.
However, I'm sure Carapaz will be there again another year. I'm actually sorry he won't be in Italy to defend his title there.
I see 2nd place wearing a jersey during stages 2-20 differently, because then they are the heir apparent, but nowadays it's considered fait accompli for yellow and white, and very likely for polkadot too, by stage 21.
I actually wonder what they would have done had Pogacar not finished stage 21, I mean would they still have declared him winner of the 3 jerseys?
In 1991 Abdu crossed the line, just about, but if he hadn't struggled those last 100 metres, would he not have been declared points winner?
The only time I know of when a rider was given an award, although he didn't finish the Tour, was Guimard in 1972 who was given the overall combativity award, despite having dropped out two stages before the end. He appeared on the podium wearing a suit!
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Without getting into the politics the BLM thing really isn't big news in much of Europe. I know Norwegian athletes who were involved but France, Italy, Eastern Europe - little awareness or interest, AFAIKS. It is a bit of an anglo-saxon obession.RichN95. said:daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.
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Instagramme0 -
Simple answer. If you don't finish within the cut-off then you don't get any jersey.
Wearing a jersey while 2nd during the race might be acceptable as you will have some hope. It is cruel to make someone wear a jersey they wanted, but can't win.
Edit - Unless you are hoping for a serious crash, which is equally bad.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
And maleness, granted there are a few more women than there were, but...RichN95. said:daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.Correlation is not causation.1 -
Apparently the action that was taken was coordinated by a few riders within the peloton. Can't fault that really.above_the_cows said:
And maleness, granted there are a few more women than there were, but...RichN95. said:daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.
I think it would be good if there was a little more diversity in cycling journalists too but the makeup of the journalists reflects the fanbase and participants, since quite a few cycling journalists are either ex pros or failed pros - which is overwhelmingly white (and male).
Noticeable difference with the cricket, Isa Guha and Ebony Rainford-Brent are both prominent in coverage - but they are both ex-top level participants. With women's cycling seemingly getting bigger/more prominent maybe that will continue to improve?
I listen to the TrainerRoad podcast (usually when I am struggling to sleep...) and they've got a female ex-pro presenter now (Amber Pearce I think?), and they've been addressing issues specifically relevant to women's training, which is something I certainly don't remember happening even 3 or 4 years ago when I started listening to it.
The fundamental issue with the BLM thing and cycling is that professional cycling is overwhelmingly white, so any intervention seems tokenistic (everyone rushing to interview Kevin Reza for example). TrainerRoad felt a bit similar when they interviewed the US amateur crit champion, Justin Williams, he has been in massive media demand in connection with BLM (Rapha did a whole thing with him too).0 -
The thing iabout cycling's whiteness is I'm unconvinced that there are all that many black people who are interested in cycling. The media ask the few that are, repeatedly as you say but generally? I've see pro races in three countries. Everyone watching is white.bobmcstuff said:
The fundamental issue with the BLM thing and cycling is that professional cycling is overwhelmingly white, so any intervention seems tokenistic (everyone rushing to interview Kevin Reza for example). TrainerRoad felt a bit similar when they interviewed the US amateur crit champion, Justin Williams, he has been in massive media demand in connection with BLM (Rapha did a whole thing with him too).
Meanwhile the World Cup squads for England, France and Belgium were all 50% black/mixed race. The way to get greater representation of black people in minority sports is to ban football.Twitter: @RichN950 -
If it's commentary you are referring to, you will find many women have already found jobs in rugby, cricket and football.above_the_cows said:
And maleness, granted there are a few more women than there were, but...RichN95. said:daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.
The recent T 20 cricket series at one point had an all women commentary team (those Bob mentioned.)
Yesterday's Champion's Cup rugby had Danielle Waterman co-commentating (mostly her in reality.)
Our Becky's "bestie" has become are regular commentator for GCN's race pass coverage.
Eurosport use Jo Rowsell, but if you are hoping for a women commentator on their men's races, somebody needs to shoot Kirby!
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Paging Rick Chasey!blazing_saddles said:
If it's commentary you are referring to, you will find many women have already found jobs in rugby, cricket and football.above_the_cows said:
And maleness, granted there are a few more women than there were, but...RichN95. said:daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.
The recent T 20 cricket series at one point had an all women commentary team (those Bob mentioned.)
Yesterday's Champion's Cup rugby had Danielle Waterman co-commentating (mostly her in reality.)
Our Becky's "bestie" has become are regular commentator for GCN's race pass coverage.
Eurosport use Jo Rowsell, but if you are hoping for a women commentator on their men's races, somebody needs to shoot Kirby!The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Personally? I think it's a grassroots issue, and a vicious circle. No minorities in cycling leads to limited interest in cycling from those groups, which is self sustaining. Football and rugby were all white at one point too - you don't generate that kind of interest overnight, and it is unrealistic to expect change to be that fast.RichN95. said:
The thing iabout cycling's whiteness is I'm unconvinced that there are all that many black people who are interested in cycling. The media ask the few that are, repeatedly as you say but generally? I've see pro races in three countries. Everyone watching is white.bobmcstuff said:
The fundamental issue with the BLM thing and cycling is that professional cycling is overwhelmingly white, so any intervention seems tokenistic (everyone rushing to interview Kevin Reza for example). TrainerRoad felt a bit similar when they interviewed the US amateur crit champion, Justin Williams, he has been in massive media demand in connection with BLM (Rapha did a whole thing with him too).
Meanwhile the World Cup squads for England, France and Belgium were all 50% black/mixed race. The way to get greater representation of black people in minority sports is to ban football.
If you were a young black kid in Manchester, you're not going to look at cycling and think "this is a sport for me", when you compare it to either of the football clubs here.1 -
I just wrote out a very bad taste execution strategy and have decided it’s a bit much.pblakeney said:
Paging Rick Chasey!blazing_saddles said:
If it's commentary you are referring to, you will find many women have already found jobs in rugby, cricket and football.above_the_cows said:
And maleness, granted there are a few more women than there were, but...RichN95. said:daniel_b said:What was Rob Hatch talking about early on - I'll paraphrase, but he was saying they were meant to do something before the flag dropped, and that they had obviously missed a memo, or missed the mood.
Anyone know what he was referring to?
He and others in the cycling media demanded the riders make a big anti-racism gesture. Presumably so that the media themselves don't have to confront their own overwhelming whiteness.
The recent T 20 cricket series at one point had an all women commentary team (those Bob mentioned.)
Yesterday's Champion's Cup rugby had Danielle Waterman co-commentating (mostly her in reality.)
Our Becky's "bestie" has become are regular commentator for GCN's race pass coverage.
Eurosport use Jo Rowsell, but if you are hoping for a women commentator on their men's races, somebody needs to shoot Kirby!1 -
Further to this we don't do a very good job in general of getting kids on bikes from a young age. Whereas pretty much all kids will kick a football around.bobmcstuff said:
Personally? I think it's a grassroots issue, and a vicious circle. No minorities in cycling leads to limited interest in cycling from those groups, which is self sustaining. Football and rugby were all white at one point too - you don't generate that kind of interest overnight, and it is unrealistic to expect change to be that fast.RichN95. said:
The thing iabout cycling's whiteness is I'm unconvinced that there are all that many black people who are interested in cycling. The media ask the few that are, repeatedly as you say but generally? I've see pro races in three countries. Everyone watching is white.bobmcstuff said:
The fundamental issue with the BLM thing and cycling is that professional cycling is overwhelmingly white, so any intervention seems tokenistic (everyone rushing to interview Kevin Reza for example). TrainerRoad felt a bit similar when they interviewed the US amateur crit champion, Justin Williams, he has been in massive media demand in connection with BLM (Rapha did a whole thing with him too).
Meanwhile the World Cup squads for England, France and Belgium were all 50% black/mixed race. The way to get greater representation of black people in minority sports is to ban football.
If you were a young black kid in Manchester, you're not going to look at cycling and think "this is a sport for me", when you compare it to either of the football clubs here.0 -
Conversely though, I don't see much increase in diversity in golf or tennis after Tiger Woods and the Williams sistersbobmcstuff said:
Personally? I think it's a grassroots issue, and a vicious circle. No minorities in cycling leads to limited interest in cycling from those groups, which is self sustaining. Football and rugby were all white at one point too - you don't generate that kind of interest overnight, and it is unrealistic to expect change to be that fast.
If you were a young black kid in Manchester, you're not going to look at cycling and think "this is a sport for me", when you compare it to either of the football clubs here.
Cycling seems to me a sport you get into because your dad or uncle was into it or there's a real good club nearby. It doesn't seem to something many would seek out independently. There's a large number of pros who are sons of pros.
Also I would suggest that the areas that pro cyclists come from - suburban, small towns, rural, are fairly low in black residents.
Twitter: @RichN950
