S*** small races - Post Lockdown 2020

RichN95.

rick_chasey said:

Evenepoel holy moly

I feel like the new generation know how to train so much better than previous.

None of this racing into shape malarkey anymore.

If being in great form after a long break was a good indicator of peak season form, Richie Porte would have won six Grand Tours.

He may be the next dominant rider or he may be a Flemish Richie

josame

maybe - but stage one when he had a 'dig' he was making time on the entire peleton, so a multitude of talents hints otherwise. also rated by Nibali is nice

rick_chasey

We both know Evenepoel is likely a little different....

gweeds

He’s an absolute monster isn’t he. Still only 19?

RichN95.

gweeds said:

He’s an absolute monster isn’t he. Still only 19?

20. But maybe he's just nearer to his ultimate level than others. Someone once said that there's no physiological reason why and 18 year couldn't win very big cycling races, they just lacked the experience and the miles in their legs. And everyone gets those at a different rate. And those that get them the fastest are often the sons of ex-pros - Evenepoel, van der Poel, Sivakov. In past Schleck, Phinney.

My guess is he'll peak at 23.

blazing_saddles

RichN95. said:

gweeds said:

He’s an absolute monster isn’t he. Still only 19?

20. But maybe he's just nearer to his ultimate level than others. Someone once said that there's no physiological reason why and 18 year couldn't win very big cycling races, they just lacked the experience and the miles in their legs. And everyone gets those at a different rate. And those that get them the fastest are often the sons of ex-pros - Evenepoel, van der Poel, Sivakov. In past Schleck, Phinney.

My guess is he'll peak at 23.

Possibly Bernal will have a similar career trajectory, looking at Colombians in general.

Pogačar then...

RichN95.

blazing_saddles said:

RichN95. said:

gweeds said:

He’s an absolute monster isn’t he. Still only 19?

20. But maybe he's just nearer to his ultimate level than others. Someone once said that there's no physiological reason why and 18 year couldn't win very big cycling races, they just lacked the experience and the miles in their legs. And everyone gets those at a different rate. And those that get them the fastest are often the sons of ex-pros - Evenepoel, van der Poel, Sivakov. In past Schleck, Phinney.

My guess is he'll peak at 23.

Possibly Bernal will have a similar career trajectory, looking at Colombians in general.

Pogačar then...

Pogacar is the one I expect to be the next multiple Tour winner, but even he has been under the guidance of Andrej Hauptman's Slovenian program since he was 11.

ocdupalais

I understand the need to refute Evenepoel’s “he’s the next Merckx” tag, but when he is already dropping some of the World’s best climbers on a long and brutal climb, when he’s clearly got more timber to shift... and that we can say with some confidence that in a TT he’ll put minutes into anyone who finished in the top 20 today in Burgos, I think it’s wholly justified to be excited and think we’re seeing a true phenomenon.
Ullrich was a phenomenon: was he successful because he won a Tour and a Vuelta, amongst other things - or was he an underachiever, because the expectation was so high - and he only won a Tour and a Vuelta?

m.r.m.

gsk82 said:

josame said:

Nibali, Landa, Roglic, Yates - yep that's some 'weak' riders right there people - I have a shovel you can borrow but you seem to be doing fine

Roglic was far from his best, Landa was a teammate, Yates was miles off the pace, the fact you mentioned Nibali shows how weak it was.

Roglic recently dispatched Pogacar with relative ease in the Slovenian National Championships. Couldn't have lost all form that easily.

RichN95.

ocdupalais said:

I understand the need to refute Evenepoel’s “he’s the next Merckx” tag, but when he is already dropping some of the World’s best climbers on a long and brutal climb, when he’s clearly got more timber to shift... and that we can say with some confidence that in a TT he’ll put minutes into anyone who finished in the top 20 today in Burgos, I think it’s wholly justified to be excited and think we’re seeing a true phenomenon.

1. He dropped riders who are mostly looking to peak for the Giro mountains ten weeks away. He beat Jumbo's fifth choice GC rider by 18 seconds.

2. It was one 700m climb. As far as I can tell he's yet to do well in a stage with more than one major climb. Today seems to be the longest climb he's ridden in the front group on.

3. Pogacar had a GT podium & 3 stages before he turned 21.

He's only started two World Tour stage races (DNF & 76th) and some bookmakers have as favourite for the Giro*. People need to calm down.

*For example: https://sports.sportingbet.com/en/sports/events/giro-d-italia-2020-general-classification-10178007

RichN95.

Going back to my point about riders with pro fathers, I introduce the 1994 Collstrop team, featuring:

Adri van der Poel - Mathieu's dad
Patrick Evenepoel - Remco's dad
Jos van Aert - Wout's dad's cousin

(And also the bloke who runs Ineos's service course)

ocdupalais

RichN95. said:

ocdupalais said:

I understand the need to refute Evenepoel’s “he’s the next Merckx” tag, but when he is already dropping some of the World’s best climbers on a long and brutal climb, when he’s clearly got more timber to shift... and that we can say with some confidence that in a TT he’ll put minutes into anyone who finished in the top 20 today in Burgos, I think it’s wholly justified to be excited and think we’re seeing a true phenomenon.

1. He dropped riders who are mostly looking to peak for the Giro mountains ten weeks away. He beat Jumbo's fifth choice GC rider by 18 seconds.

2. It was one 700m climb. As far as I can tell he's yet to do well in a stage with more than one major climb. Today seems to be the longest climb he's ridden in the front group on.

3. Pogacar had a GT podium & 3 stages before he turned 21.

He's only started two World Tour stage races (DNF & 76th) and some bookmakers have as favourite for the Giro*. People need to calm down.

*For example: https://sports.sportingbet.com/en/sports/events/giro-d-italia-2020-general-classification-10178007

That’s ridiculous: ‘people need to calm down’? What - so you’re only allowed to get excited by a rider once they’ve achieved in accordance to their potential, rather than because their potential suggests limitless possibilities at the start of their career!? That’s what potential means.
There are a whole bunch of riders/ ex-riders saying this kid is the real deal. I’ll go with that rather than some turgid stats.

RichN95.

ocdupalais said:

That’s ridiculous: ‘people need to calm down’? What - so you’re only allowed to get excited by a rider once they’ve achieved in accordance to their potential, rather than because their potential suggests limitless possibilities at the start of their career!? That’s what potential means.
There are a whole bunch of riders/ ex-riders saying this kid is the real deal. I’ll go with that rather than some turgid stats.

But when he doesn't reach the ridiculous highs that some people expect of him, he'll be labelled a failure. I've seen this all before in various sports.

rick_chasey

Not many under 20s win San Sebastián.

bobmcstuff

RichN95. said:

ocdupalais said:

That’s ridiculous: ‘people need to calm down’? What - so you’re only allowed to get excited by a rider once they’ve achieved in accordance to their potential, rather than because their potential suggests limitless possibilities at the start of their career!? That’s what potential means.
There are a whole bunch of riders/ ex-riders saying this kid is the real deal. I’ll go with that rather than some turgid stats.

But when he doesn't reach the ridiculous highs that some people expect of him, he'll be labelled a failure. I've seen this all before in various sports.

I think it's totally reasonable to be excited now but then unfair to label him a failure if he turns out just to be peaking young. If that counts?

blazing_saddles

Meanwhile we have had another Burgos stage.
Sam Bennett pulled his Tour of Turkey party trick and attacked as soon as they hit the foot of the final rise into the finishing town, just as there was a crash on the bend leading into it.
Stole away and took the second Quick Step, "at a canter", win.

gsk82

It's there any coverage of burgos of occitaine for British viewers?

blazing_saddles

gsk82 said:

It's there any coverage of burgos of occitaine for British viewers?

Burgos has had live coverage everyday but only in Spanish or French.
See other thread for the dismal news on Occitanie.

blazing_saddles

Evenepoel looking as if he's about to do an Annemiek van Vleuten impression...

Sosa still there with him and Landa.

blazing_saddles

Sosa wins for Ineos, with Landa second and Evenepoel third.
Although Remco seemed more interested in making sure his team mate finished in fourth.

gsk82

Sosa wins by about 7 seconds from Landa, who was a couple more seconds ahead of Evenepoel

blazing_saddles

Today's early live race coverage from a rather wet Spain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei6U7I_lTGM

It's the post Burgos one day race.

andyp

Rick's favourite Groenewegen's just put Fabio Jacobsen into the barriers in the tour of Poland. Look's awful.

redvision

Really really awful crash. Looks worse each time they replay it.
Hope they are all ok.

blazing_saddles

andyp said:

Rick's favourite Groenewegen's just put Fabio Jacobsen into the barriers in the tour of Poland. Look's awful.

Been commenting upon it in the UCI calendar thread.

Shocking impact. Never seen barriers explode like that.
Jakobsen like a rag doll.

Groenewegen can pack his bags and expect another long holiday.

redvision

blazing_saddles said:

andyp said:

Rick's favourite Groenewegen's just put Fabio Jacobsen into the barriers in the tour of Poland. Look's awful.

Groenewegen can pack his bags and expect another long holiday.

I think he deserves a ban. The footage from behind the sprint shows him looking over his shoulder as he moved over. He must have seen that jakobson was on his outside.

andyrac

Groenewegen will have to hope the officials are the same as at Goodwood last week....otherwise that should be a lengthy 'holiday'.

twotoebenny

That's likely the worst crash I've seen, once was enough and they kept repeating it. Hopefully everyone is OK

gregster04

Terrible. If you haven’t seen it yet, don’t watch it.

twotoebenny said:

That's likely the worst crash I've seen, once was enough and they kept repeating it. Hopefully everyone is OK

dabber

I hope he ends up banned until the end of the season (whatever that comprises).