Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting

kingstongraham

DeVlaeminck said:

Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

Medallists are pretty rare as well. It wouldn't take many per sport to completely change top level women's sport.

If I were an unscrupulous type in charge of (for example) the North Korean Olympic weightlifting team, I would be watching with interest for 2024.

Jezyboy

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

ballysmate said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

How's about cycling? McKinnon/Ivy.

Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.

I'm not sure saying you have sympathy for the sporting authorities on this means you agree with the final decision.

But if you look at it from a female point of view, why should the trans community be lumped in with them?

Before you start conducting laboratory tests to see if somebody can compete in women's events could you not at least ask that they not have a c0ck and b@lls?

If you look at it from a particularly loud activist movement point of view, you've just committed a hate crime by seperating the trans community from the female community. Now you can write off those views, but they are increasingly going towards mainstream.

I have some sympathy for any sports body operating in that environment.

surrey_commuter

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

ballysmate said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

How's about cycling? McKinnon/Ivy.

Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.

I'm not sure saying you have sympathy for the sporting authorities on this means you agree with the final decision.

But if you look at it from a female point of view, why should the trans community be lumped in with them?

Before you start conducting laboratory tests to see if somebody can compete in women's events could you not at least ask that they not have a c0ck and b@lls?

If you look at it from a particularly loud activist movement point of view, you've just committed a hate crime by seperating the trans community from the female community. Now you can write off those views, but they are increasingly going towards mainstream.

I have some sympathy for any sports body operating in that environment.

The idea of joining another community without their agreement just seems a little strange. I believe this is the debate that is splitting Stonewall, we wish you well but why align with us?

DeVlaeminck

Jezyboy said:

ballysmate said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

How's about cycling? McKinnon/Ivy.

Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.

I'm not sure saying you have sympathy for the sporting authorities on this means you agree with the final decision.

Yes I don't really think trans women should be competing in elite sport as women - it's one of those questions where there are good arguments on both sides.

Ultimately why does women's sport exist - it's (at least in large part) because of biological differences between the sexes and transitioning does not entirely eliminate those differences.

ballysmate

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

ballysmate said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

How's about cycling? McKinnon/Ivy.

Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.

I'm not sure saying you have sympathy for the sporting authorities on this means you agree with the final decision.

But if you look at it from a female point of view, why should the trans community be lumped in with them?

Before you start conducting laboratory tests to see if somebody can compete in women's events could you not at least ask that they not have a c0ck and b@lls?

According to the article I linked from the Guardian, you can still have a c0ck and your bollocks and be able to compete as a woman. Just as long as your testosterone stays below 10.
As it happens, for the best part of the last 10 years, I would have met that criteria and according to the IOC could compete as a woman.
If you think that is bad, I have now got to explain to my missus that the IOC consider her to be a lesbian and in fact, I am a lesbian too.

Tbf the last bit is no great surprise to me as I have often shared the same interests as lesbians.

rjsterry

Still no idea what Bally's gender confusion has to do with Colston.

kingstongraham

rjsterry said:

Still no idea what this has to do with Colston.

This is one of the general purpose culture war threads. If you are against statues of slavers, you must also be in favour of self identification for women's sport. Probably mandatory to be for closing down the police as well.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Still no idea what Bally's gender confusion has to do with Colston.

This is the thread for those that want to criticise wokeness. The GB news thread is for those that want to criticise anti-wokeness. Does that help?

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

Still no idea what Bally's gender confusion has to do with Colston.

Bit strange as you joined in a discussion on trans people in this very thread only 3 pages back.

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13111821/edward-colston/p55

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Still no idea what Bally's gender confusion has to do with Colston.

This is the thread for those that want to criticise wokeness. The GB news thread is for those that want to criticise anti-wokeness. Does that help?

Sorry, what has any of this got to do with wokeness, either its original definition or the made up definition that a bunch of reactionaries insist on using?

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

Still no idea what Bally's gender confusion has to do with Colston.

Bit strange as you joined in a discussion on trans people in this very thread only 3 pages back.

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13111821/edward-colston/p55

It's an interesting topic, just not related to Colston. I know this place constantly goes off on tangents but the I can't see the link here.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Still no idea what Bally's gender confusion has to do with Colston.

This is the thread for those that want to criticise wokeness. The GB news thread is for those that want to criticise anti-wokeness. Does that help?

Sorry, what has any of this got to do with wokeness, either its original definition or the made up definition that a bunch of reactionaries insist on using?

You are going beyond my area of expertise, but doesn't the awareness that comes with being woke include trans rights? The wikipedia definition includes just about every minority group.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

Still no idea what Bally's gender confusion has to do with Colston.

Bit strange as you joined in a discussion on trans people in this very thread only 3 pages back.

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13111821/edward-colston/p55

It's an interesting topic, just not related to Colston. I know this place constantly goes off on tangents but the I can't see the link here.

I agree there is no link to Colston, it's just that the thread had already previously veered off onto trans issues so I posted it here.
You're only picking on me because I'm a woman

rjsterry

Not at all. You do what feels right for you, Bally. I'll edit the thread title to be more inclusive.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Not at all. You do what feels right for you, Bally. I'll edit the thread title to be more inclusive.

This is now truly a thread fit for Cake Stop

veronese68

ballysmate said:

As it happens, for the best part of the last 10 years, I would have met that criteria and according to the IOC could compete as a woman.

To be fair I often think you're a bit of an old woman

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Not at all. You do what feels right for you, Bally. I'll edit the thread title to be more inclusive.

This is now truly a thread fit for Cake Stop

Having given up on staying on topic I'm happy to add other topics to the thread title as required.

ballysmate

veronese68 said:

ballysmate said:

As it happens, for the best part of the last 10 years, I would have met that criteria and according to the IOC could compete as a woman.

To be fair I often think you're a bit of an old woman

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Not at all. You do what feels right for you, Bally. I'll edit the thread title to be more inclusive.

This is now truly a thread fit for Cake Stop

Having given up on staying on topic I'm happy to add other topics to the thread title as required.

Makes for a very inclusive thread.

blazing_saddles

I wonder what happens if the person in question breaks the women's Olympic/World record in the competition?

kingstongraham

blazing_saddles said:

I wonder what happens if the person in question breaks the women's Olympic/World record in the competition?

They become the record holder. Quite an easy one that.

blazing_saddles

kingstongraham said:

blazing_saddles said:

I wonder what happens if the person in question breaks the women's Olympic/World record in the competition?

They become the record holder. Quite an easy one that.

Sorry, I am so clueless. It's just me showing my age.

TheBigBean

The Colston Four have been found not guilty of criminal damage.

rick_chasey

👌🏻

rjsterry

Loving all the culture warrior outrage.

rick_chasey

The "the ruling undermines the rule of law" takes are rather hilarious.

kingstongraham

I'm always impressed by a jury coming out with a "yes obviously they did it but whatever" verdict.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

I'm always impressed by a jury coming out with a "yes obviously they did it but whatever" verdict.

It's the fascinating thing about juries. They also deliver the "there may be no evidence, but we don't like him, so guilty" verdict once in a while too.

Over in the US, a juror has just been explaining how he persuaded his fellow jurors to find Maxwell guilty based on his own experiences of sexual abuse. Something he failed mention at the outset.

No idea how many jurors end up being prosecuted.

rjsterry

kingstongraham said:

I'm always impressed by a jury coming out with a "yes obviously they did it but whatever" verdict.

I don't imagine they spent 10 days arguing about whether they rolled the statue into the Floating Harbour. Clearly the argument was about the justification for that action.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

I'm always impressed by a jury coming out with a "yes obviously they did it but whatever" verdict.

It's the fascinating thing about juries. They also deliver the "there may be no evidence, but we don't like him, so guilty" verdict once in a while too.

Over in the US, a juror has just been explaining how he persuaded his fellow jurors to find Maxwell guilty based on his own experiences of sexual abuse. Something he failed mention at the outset.

No idea how many jurors end up being prosecuted.

A retrial seems a distinct possibility there. On the face of it, the juror appears to have lied about this during the selection process.