Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting

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  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    rick_chasey said:

    ...really? Where? and on what basis? They're not allowed to ask anything (or at the very least you're not obliged to disclose) any of those as a criteria AFAIK.

    Can't remember. Was probably before the equality act.

    I think Princes Charles used to sponsor a couple of architecture students from non white ethic backgrounds on the basis that they were very poorly represented in the profession. I always felt this approach meant well, but I suspected that poor white backgrounds were also lacking in the profession and overlooked. The issue being one of economic inequality.

    My point is that if such thinking could be so well accepted and mainstream at the time for things like scholarships, then it is easy to imagine that additional school funding or help may have been spent in a similar way. It might not have been, but it is a legitimate question to ask.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    Race seems to be less of a factor now, but sex and nationality still seem to play a big part. Anyway, here is a scholarship for LBS

    https://www.london.edu/masters-degrees/financial-aid/search-for-funding/mckinsey-diverse-young-leaders-scholarship

    "Candidates of Hispanic, Latino/Latina, African American or Native American race or ethnicity "
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Pross said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Pross said:

    I've said it somewhere before but the term 'white privilege' seems very unhelpful if you are trying to bring about equality. It feels designed to create greater division. It may be deliberately antagonistic but I'm not sure what it achieves.

    I think it can be helpful to examine the role of one's own good fortune in life. I think it's stupid to write off and completely ignore other's experience based on those good fortunes.

    I'll generally have had better dealings with the UK police, rarely have felt out of place (at least based on my appearance) in the country of my birth and never experienced anyone calling me a racial slur.
    Yes, but if you were living on the bread line and barely getting by would you appreciate being classed as privileged because you were born white?
    That's the point of this report isn't it? To make it about race when it is about inequality.
    Surely it is about both race and equality. I never understand why it is hard for people to appreciate that there is a discrimination. For example, a privileged white man might feel the opposite of privileged when embarking on a career in childcare.
    There are 3 white, male care workers at our nursery, no non-white males...
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    TheBigBean said:

    Race seems to be less of a factor now, but sex and nationality still seem to play a big part. Anyway, here is a scholarship for LBS

    https://www.london.edu/masters-degrees/financial-aid/search-for-funding/mckinsey-diverse-young-leaders-scholarship

    "Candidates of Hispanic, Latino/Latina, African American or Native American race or ethnicity "

    Only for Americans, that.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    They're not hard to find. Here's the Bank of England's

    This is a scholarship of at least £5000 towards the costs of living and study for one academic year (2021/22).
    Who can apply

    Students from a Black, Mixed African or Caribbean background with a household income of less than £50,000 a year.

    You need to have also applied for one of our internships
    Are you who we’re looking for?

    We’re looking for a student from a Black, Mixed African or Caribbean background that will join us on a Future Talent Internship in 2021. If you have applied for the our First Year, Penultimate Year or Postgraduate Internship, you can also be considered for our African-Caribbean Scholarship. If you successfully receive a job offer for the internship, you will also to have the opportunity to receive a minimum of £5,000 to contribute towards your 2021/2022 academic year of study. Intern applicants will receive further information on how to be considered for this funding opportunity, so it is important to ensure you have applied for one of the Internships ahead of the application deadline.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    Anyway, this feels like the important conclusion of the report, and you can just miss out the word White and it makes no difference.

    The Government has committed to ‘levelling up’, but there remain stark differences in educational outcomes in different parts of the country, which seem likely to be exacerbated by the differential impact of covid-19. Education is a part of a larger whole with regard to geographic inequalities. Without improvements to local job markets and infrastructure (including digital infrastructure), education faces an uphill battle to raise outcomes for disadvantaged White pupils in left-behind areas. Equally, creating opportunities is of limited use if education has not equipped local people with the skills to fill them.


    And by way of illustration, from the other link - Proportion of white FSM pupils in England starting higher education by age 19 by region


  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,822
    kingstongraham said:

    Anyway, this feels like the important conclusion of the report, and you can just miss out the word White and it makes no difference.

    The Government has committed to ‘levelling up’, but there remain stark differences in educational outcomes in different parts of the country, which seem likely to be exacerbated by the differential impact of covid-19. Education is a part of a larger whole with regard to geographic inequalities. Without improvements to local job markets and infrastructure (including digital infrastructure), education faces an uphill battle to raise outcomes for disadvantaged White pupils in left-behind areas. Equally, creating opportunities is of limited use if education has not equipped local people with the skills to fill them.


    And by way of illustration, from the other link - Proportion of white FSM pupils in England starting higher education by age 19 by region


    The thing that stands out there is how much better London does on this.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    rjsterry said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Anyway, this feels like the important conclusion of the report, and you can just miss out the word White and it makes no difference.

    The Government has committed to ‘levelling up’, but there remain stark differences in educational outcomes in different parts of the country, which seem likely to be exacerbated by the differential impact of covid-19. Education is a part of a larger whole with regard to geographic inequalities. Without improvements to local job markets and infrastructure (including digital infrastructure), education faces an uphill battle to raise outcomes for disadvantaged White pupils in left-behind areas. Equally, creating opportunities is of limited use if education has not equipped local people with the skills to fill them.


    And by way of illustration, from the other link - Proportion of white FSM pupils in England starting higher education by age 19 by region


    The thing that stands out there is how much better London does on this.
    Exactly.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    rick_chasey said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Pross said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Pross said:

    I've said it somewhere before but the term 'white privilege' seems very unhelpful if you are trying to bring about equality. It feels designed to create greater division. It may be deliberately antagonistic but I'm not sure what it achieves.

    I think it can be helpful to examine the role of one's own good fortune in life. I think it's stupid to write off and completely ignore other's experience based on those good fortunes.

    I'll generally have had better dealings with the UK police, rarely have felt out of place (at least based on my appearance) in the country of my birth and never experienced anyone calling me a racial slur.
    Yes, but if you were living on the bread line and barely getting by would you appreciate being classed as privileged because you were born white?
    That's the point of this report isn't it? To make it about race when it is about inequality.
    Surely it is about both race and equality. I never understand why it is hard for people to appreciate that there is a discrimination. For example, a privileged white man might feel the opposite of privileged when embarking on a career in childcare.
    Can anyone here refer to a moment either in their own schooling or in their child's where there is a bias against "white privilege" in schools? I feel what they're describing is nothing about race and entirely about class but they're turning it into one.
    Yes, well education anyway. When a uni gave a lower offer to one of my football team on the basis her dad is Sri Lankan. She said herself she didn't think it was right but she wasn't going to turn it down.

    What does her offer have to do with you?

    That's why I said "well education anyway".
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,657
    kingstongraham said:

    Anyway, this feels like the important conclusion of the report, and you can just miss out the word White and it makes no difference.

    The Government has committed to ‘levelling up’, but there remain stark differences in educational outcomes in different parts of the country, which seem likely to be exacerbated by the differential impact of covid-19. Education is a part of a larger whole with regard to geographic inequalities. Without improvements to local job markets and infrastructure (including digital infrastructure), education faces an uphill battle to raise outcomes for disadvantaged White pupils in left-behind areas. Equally, creating opportunities is of limited use if education has not equipped local people with the skills to fill them.


    And by way of illustration, from the other link - Proportion of white FSM pupils in England starting higher education by age 19 by region


    I'm not sure how the South East is doing so badly there.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    kingstongraham said:

    Anyway, this feels like the important conclusion of the report, and you can just miss out the word White and it makes no difference.

    The Government has committed to ‘levelling up’, but there remain stark differences in educational outcomes in different parts of the country, which seem likely to be exacerbated by the differential impact of covid-19. Education is a part of a larger whole with regard to geographic inequalities. Without improvements to local job markets and infrastructure (including digital infrastructure), education faces an uphill battle to raise outcomes for disadvantaged White pupils in left-behind areas. Equally, creating opportunities is of limited use if education has not equipped local people with the skills to fill them.


    And by way of illustration, from the other link - Proportion of white FSM pupils in England starting higher education by age 19 by region


    That's interesting. Perhaps one explanation for the better performance in London is greater funding. The follow on question is why is that the case? London centric approach, an attempt to improve results from schools with high numbers of ethic minorities or something else?

    Alternatively perhaps it is easier to get free school meals in London.

    Obviously, I should probably just read the report.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,822
    edited June 2021
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Anyway, this feels like the important conclusion of the report, and you can just miss out the word White and it makes no difference.

    The Government has committed to ‘levelling up’, but there remain stark differences in educational outcomes in different parts of the country, which seem likely to be exacerbated by the differential impact of covid-19. Education is a part of a larger whole with regard to geographic inequalities. Without improvements to local job markets and infrastructure (including digital infrastructure), education faces an uphill battle to raise outcomes for disadvantaged White pupils in left-behind areas. Equally, creating opportunities is of limited use if education has not equipped local people with the skills to fill them.


    And by way of illustration, from the other link - Proportion of white FSM pupils in England starting higher education by age 19 by region


    That's interesting. Perhaps one explanation for the better performance in London is greater funding. The follow on question is why is that the case? London centric approach, an attempt to improve results from schools with high numbers of ethic minorities or something else?

    Alternatively perhaps it is easier to get free school meals in London.

    Obviously, I should probably just read the report.
    Labour did put a lot of money into London schools, but they also put in a lot elsewhere and that is now 11 years ago. I also wonder if there isn't more competition between schools. Where a choice between 5 or 6 local schools is the norm for each child, there is less room to let things slip than where there is a choice of 1 or 2.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    London schools do get a lot more money per pupil.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/381745/education-expenditure-per-pupil-england-region-uk/
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    DeVlaeminck said:

    London schools do get a lot more money per pupil.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/381745/education-expenditure-per-pupil-england-region-uk/

    I can't see the data without a subscription, but how much of that is due to the higher cost of wages in London and the salary premium for innner cities?
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  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    Not sure what's happened there but London was about £5700 per pupil and everywhere else was £500-1000 less per year.

    Yes without context suppose it doesn't prove much.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,010
    IOC and NZ athletics conspiring to give women's sport another kick in the bollocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/21/olympics-tokyo-laurel-hubbard-trans-weightlifter-new-zealand

    You can compete as a woman even if you have a pair of as long as your testosterone is below 10 nmol/l.

    "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
    Wise words indeed.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,599
    ballysmate said:

    IOC and NZ athletics conspiring to give women's sport another kick in the bollocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/21/olympics-tokyo-laurel-hubbard-trans-weightlifter-new-zealand

    You can compete as a woman even if you have a pair of as long as your testosterone is below 10 nmol/l.

    "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
    Wise words indeed.


    Most of those born male probably have lower testosterone levels than east European women did in the 80s.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,010
    Pross said:

    ballysmate said:

    IOC and NZ athletics conspiring to give women's sport another kick in the bollocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/21/olympics-tokyo-laurel-hubbard-trans-weightlifter-new-zealand

    You can compete as a woman even if you have a pair of as long as your testosterone is below 10 nmol/l.

    "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
    Wise words indeed.


    Most of those born male probably have lower testosterone levels than east European women did in the 80s.

    So we look back and rightly call what the DDR and USSR did as cheating. Now it appears that the IOC calls it equality.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,599
    ballysmate said:

    Pross said:

    ballysmate said:

    IOC and NZ athletics conspiring to give women's sport another kick in the bollocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/21/olympics-tokyo-laurel-hubbard-trans-weightlifter-new-zealand

    You can compete as a woman even if you have a pair of as long as your testosterone is below 10 nmol/l.

    "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
    Wise words indeed.


    Most of those born male probably have lower testosterone levels than east European women did in the 80s.

    So we look back and rightly call what the DDR and USSR did as cheating. Now it appears that the IOC calls it equality.
    I wasn't trying to be serious
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,010
    Pross said:

    ballysmate said:

    Pross said:

    ballysmate said:

    IOC and NZ athletics conspiring to give women's sport another kick in the bollocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/21/olympics-tokyo-laurel-hubbard-trans-weightlifter-new-zealand

    You can compete as a woman even if you have a pair of as long as your testosterone is below 10 nmol/l.

    "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
    Wise words indeed.


    Most of those born male probably have lower testosterone levels than east European women did in the 80s.

    So we look back and rightly call what the DDR and USSR did as cheating. Now it appears that the IOC calls it equality.
    I wasn't trying to be serious
    Sorry. :)
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,834
    ballysmate said:

    IOC and NZ athletics conspiring to give women's sport another kick in the bollocks.

    Deliberate turn of phrase Bally? :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,010
    Stevo_666 said:

    ballysmate said:

    IOC and NZ athletics conspiring to give women's sport another kick in the bollocks.

    Deliberate turn of phrase Bally? :smile:
    ;)

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    edited June 2021
    Shows how efficient the definition of wokeness has been that this is the thread for it.

    I found this interesting on the redefinition of "critical race theory" in the US, which is a similar move.

  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

    I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,822
    kingstongraham said:

    Shows how efficient the definition of wokeness has been that this is the thread for it.

    I found this interesting on the redefinition of "critical race theory" in the US, which is a similar move.

    Sadly true. Colston has absolutely nothing to do with trans rights, so slightly bemused as to how that's been crowbarred in.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,010
    DeVlaeminck said:

    Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

    I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

    How's about cycling? McKinnon/Ivy.

    Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    ballysmate said:


    Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.

    Ha you sure you didn't mean to post that in the GB news thread?
    _
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,657
    ballysmate said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

    I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

    How's about cycling? McKinnon/Ivy.

    Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.
    I'm not sure saying you have sympathy for the sporting authorities on this means you agree with the final decision.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,782
    rjsterry said:

    Sadly true. Colston has absolutely nothing to do with trans rights, so slightly bemused as to how that's been crowbarred in.

    He did wear wigs and flamboyant clothes...




    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Jezyboy said:

    ballysmate said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    Bit of sympathy for the sporting authorities over this. They are obviously under pressure from changing laws and social attitudes but with more people transitioning often at a younger age no doubt we are going to see a bit more of this.

    I suppose sports with a higher skill component are different. Nobody is taking up tennis or golf at 30 and becoming a top pro even with an advantage of having gone through male puberty - maybe a top amateur or existing pro transitioning but those cases are going to be rare enough.

    How's about cycling? McKinnon/Ivy.

    Sometimes people are that keen to be open minded that their brain falls out.
    I'm not sure saying you have sympathy for the sporting authorities on this means you agree with the final decision.
    But if you look at it from a female point of view, why should the trans community be lumped in with them?

    Before you start conducting laboratory tests to see if somebody can compete in women's events could you not at least ask that they not have a c0ck and b@lls?

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