Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting
Comments
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Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
They - the drivers - did not portray it as anything. They just pushed his car.ballysmate said:rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
So you really don't accept that portraying an incident as being based on racism has any effect on public mood?rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
An extreme example would be Michael Duggan, whose shooting led to nationwide riots.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
In response to what they claimed was a racist incident was was in fact not.rjsterry said:
They - the drivers - did not portray it as anything. They just pushed his car.ballysmate said:rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
So you really don't accept that portraying an incident as being based on racism has any effect on public mood?rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
An extreme example would be Michael Duggan, whose shooting led to nationwide riots.0 -
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?0 -
Is this in any way an indication of lockdown cabin fever?
Do any of you taking this seriously really think this thread will make a difference?
Bring back Manc33. At least you could laugh at that stuff.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
No. They didn't claim anything. Others may have reported it as such.ballysmate said:
In response to what they claimed was a racist incident was was in fact not.rjsterry said:
They - the drivers - did not portray it as anything. They just pushed his car.ballysmate said:rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
So you really don't accept that portraying an incident as being based on racism has any effect on public mood?rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
An extreme example would be Michael Duggan, whose shooting led to nationwide riots.
Let's take a hypothetical example. Say someone found a pink triangle on a gay football player's locker in the away dressing room, and then the players, having seen this decided they would make some small public gesture of solidarity with that player before kick off.
If it is subsequently found that the pink triangle was just an innocent sticker that doesn't invalidate the show of solidarity with the player.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Not criticising the show of solidarity. You asked me to explain my position and I repliedrick_chasey said:You’ve really got the wrong end of the stick here - to the point at which you’re coming up with non sequitur examples.
The context in which the show of solidarity happened is obviously different and the guy himself admitted after the fact that they got the wrong end of the stick.
But the motive is relevant here bally and that’s where the Yaxley-Lennon comparison falls apart. One is the right message (which surely you must agree with) and one isn’t (which you should too).
That is relevant.
I mean why are you so keen to criticise a show of solidarity for black people in a sport which is infamously racist against black people? Do you know what the confederate flag actually represents?
What’s the angle here?
After several high profile cases involving excessive use of force against the black population by US law enforcement agencies, the drivers publicised this as another racially motivated incident.
I don't doubt there is genuine racism within Nascar and have no desire to piddle on any driver's chips if he wants to show solidarity. Just that the trigger was portrayed as a vile piece of racism, particularly in the south, and it turned out not to be the case.
I accept that the drivers motives were good and they acted in good faith, believing that a racist act had occurred. But it hadn't.
In the example of the Cumbrian girl, if people in northern towns in England, where the abuse had allegedly taken place, had protested, they too would have acted in good faith but would have caused damage to community relations.
That is why motive is irrelevant. Whist I agree with you regarding YL and which message is right and which is wrong, who are we to decide which message is permitted to be built on a falsehood and which is not?0 -
Showing solidarity is a good thing. Helps to heal division.rjsterry said:
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.
Highlighting a black driver having a noose hung in his garage as an act of racism when it didn't happen, counter productive. Builds division.
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This is what I posted.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
If you regard that as having a fit of the vapours,well so be it.0 -
Between who?ballysmate said:
Showing solidarity is a good thing. Helps to heal division.rjsterry said:
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.
Highlighting a black driver having a noose hung in his garage as an act of racism when it didn't happen, counter productive. Builds division.0 -
You have odd priorities. You're concerned that Voice of America may become even less impartial when I suspect you have never listened to it, but this is all too serious.pblakeney said:Is this in any way an indication of lockdown cabin fever?
Do any of you taking this seriously really think this thread will make a difference?
Bring back Manc33. At least you could laugh at that stuff.0 -
Folks on forum, obviously.rick_chasey said:
Between who?ballysmate said:
Showing solidarity is a good thing. Helps to heal division.rjsterry said:
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.
Highlighting a black driver having a noose hung in his garage as an act of racism when it didn't happen, counter productive. Builds division.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
As the alleged victim was black and the assumed perpetrator was white, that would be the black and white communities.rick_chasey said:
Between who?ballysmate said:
Showing solidarity is a good thing. Helps to heal division.rjsterry said:
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.
Highlighting a black driver having a noose hung in his garage as an act of racism when it didn't happen, counter productive. Builds division.
If you and RJS are correct in saying that the publicising of incidents of racism, which transpire to be false, have no effect on public feeling, it must surely follow that publicising actual incidents of racism has no effect either.
That being the case, publicising events that fostered racial harmony would have no effect either, would it?
All of which is nonsense. The George Floyd story shows that.
Tell you what, you and your mates, get yourself off to the next street party in Brixton. Organise an event to show solidarity with (insert fictitious name), a black youth beaten/victimised/shot/falsely arrested/other.* by the police.
Then you could come back and tell me that your day out had no effect on the level of public division.
*Delete inapplicable.
Edited to ensure goalposts aren't moved.0 -
You’re increasingly reminding me of the dwarf in In Bruges.ballysmate said:
As the alleged victim was black and the assumed perpetrator was white, that would be the black and white communities.rick_chasey said:
Between who?ballysmate said:
Showing solidarity is a good thing. Helps to heal division.rjsterry said:
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.
Highlighting a black driver having a noose hung in his garage as an act of racism when it didn't happen, counter productive. Builds division.
If you and RJS are correct in saying that the publicising of incidents of racism, which transpire to be false, have no effect on public feeling, it must surely follow that publicising actual incidents of racism has no effect either.
That being the case, publicising events that fostered racial harmony would have no effect either, would it?
All of which is nonsense. The George Floyd story shows that.
Tell you what, you and your mates, get yourself off to the next street party in Brixton. Organise an event to show solidarity with (insert fictitious name), a black youth beaten/victimised/shot/falsely arrested/other.* by the police.
Then you could come back and tell me that your day out had no effect on the public mood.
*Delete inapplicable.0 -
😄blazing_saddles said:
Folks on forum, obviously.rick_chasey said:
Between who?ballysmate said:
Showing solidarity is a good thing. Helps to heal division.rjsterry said:
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.
Highlighting a black driver having a noose hung in his garage as an act of racism when it didn't happen, counter productive. Builds division.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You're shifting the posts there. Affecting public opinion is not the same as creating division.ballysmate said:
As the alleged victim was black and the assumed perpetrator was white, that would be the black and white communities.rick_chasey said:
Between who?ballysmate said:
Showing solidarity is a good thing. Helps to heal division.rjsterry said:
I still don't understand how a public gesture to show that Bubba Wallace - a driver who has successfully campaigned to remove the Confederate flag from the sport and so likely to have upset a few people - is one of their peers can in any way ramp up tensions. If anything it does the opposite.ballysmate said:
I didn't say it was an incendiary act of protest.rjsterry said:
Nobody fabricated anything. Nobody whipped up anything. The garage door pull was tied in a noose.ballysmate said:
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
Regardless of how it got there, the other drivers wanted to show that he was one of them by pushing his car. That's it. How the hell you can read this as some incendiary act of protest, God only knows. You and whoever liked your post seem to be the only people getting a fit of the vapours about this. I don't see NASCAR fans up in arms about it.
I said
In the display of solidarity following the noose non incident, what was achieved apart from ramping up tensions further unnecessarily and more importantly, giving a bunch of white men the chance to feel better about themselves.
They did it in response to the noose 'non incident' which they portrayed erroneously as an act of racism.
Surely there is enough actual racism to draw upon. Publicising something as being racist when it wasn't surely helps nobody does it?
Are you saying they should keep quiet in case they upset a bunch of idiots who think there shouldn't be any black NASCAR drivers?
Anyway, I'll leave it there as we are upsetting @pblakeney.
Highlighting a black driver having a noose hung in his garage as an act of racism when it didn't happen, counter productive. Builds division.
If you and RJS are correct in saying that the publicising of incidents of racism, which transpire to be false, have no effect on public feeling, it must surely follow that publicising actual incidents of racism has no effect either.
That being the case, publicising events that fostered racial harmony would have no effect either, would it?
All of which is nonsense. The George Floyd story shows that.
Tell you what, you and your mates, get yourself off to the next street party in Brixton. Organise an event to show solidarity with (insert fictitious name), a black youth beaten/victimised/shot/falsely arrested/other.* by the police.
Then you could come back and tell me that your day out had no effect on the public mood.
*Delete inapplicable.
Demonstrating that Wallace is welcome in the sport is not divisive. The noose/rope seems to have been the trigger for the show of solidarity, but I would argue that the method they chose to respond to that shifts the focus away from that specific incident to a more general point that the sport should welcome black drivers. It was not an angry protest.
If a crowd of Wallace fans had stormed the pit lane, or led down in front of the start line, then I think you would have a point. That would then be setting up Wallace against the other drivers/teams/fans. You could argue that the other drivers could have done something similar before this incident - particularly when he was trying to get the Confederate flag removed from the sport - and maybe they should, but better late than never.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
There is a difference between a malicious lie and jumping to a conclusion though.
Some people are acting as if Bubba Wallace tied the knot himself.1 -
This is a serious subject but some could learn to let the bone go.TheBigBean said:
You have odd priorities. You're concerned that Voice of America may become even less impartial when I suspect you have never listened to it, but this is all too serious.pblakeney said:Is this in any way an indication of lockdown cabin fever?
Do any of you taking this seriously really think this thread will make a difference?
Bring back Manc33. At least you could laugh at that stuff.
The subject gets tedious, people switch off, people don't learn.
I was clicking on hoping to learn something.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Don't see where that has been said, suggested or even intimated.Jeremy.89 said:There is a difference between a malicious lie and jumping to a conclusion though.
Some people are acting as if Bubba Wallace tied the knot himself.
FWIW I think Watson deserves credit for immediately saying that he been mistaken.
I also agree with Blakey that it has become tedious for me as well as other forumites so I am dropping my end of the bone.
*Watch someone pop up again and ask me another direct question, expecting a response.
0 -
Thank heavens for that.
I can now concentrate on trying to get my head around how the The Dixie Chicks thought it was job done by removing Dixie from their name....."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
.0
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Sunlight is the best disinfectant and too many support these morons...
0 -
"Minneapolis to Israel in 34 days. Phileas Fogg would be proud of that."coopster_the_1st said:Sunlight is the best disinfectant and too many support these morons...
0 -
The one and only manc33 is alive and well on the CyclingUK forum. If you want to relive the good old days of flat earthing and anti gravity-ing, have a read of the long running 'It's Not Rocket Science' topic in the Fun and Games section. Ah those were the days, pre BloJo, pre Trump, pre Brexsh!t...pblakeney said:Is this in any way an indication of lockdown cabin fever?
Do any of you taking this seriously really think this thread will make a difference?
Bring back Manc33. At least you could laugh at that stuff.0 -
Why don't you could drop by there and ask him to rejoin? As I recall the mod who banned him a good few years back took a pretty harsh line; I mean posting pseudo science bollox is hardly the worst crime, is it.orraloon said:
The one and only manc33 is alive and well on the CyclingUK forum. If you want to relive the good old days of flat earthing and anti gravity-ing, have a read of the long running 'It's Not Rocket Science' topic in the Fun and Games section. Ah those were the days, pre BloJo, pre Trump, pre Brexsh!t...pblakeney said:Is this in any way an indication of lockdown cabin fever?
Do any of you taking this seriously really think this thread will make a difference?
Bring back Manc33. At least you could laugh at that stuff."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
coopster_the_1st said:
Sunlight is the best disinfectant and too many support these morons...
0 -
You can hear the back-pedalling from here...rick_chasey said:coopster_the_1st said:Sunlight is the best disinfectant and too many support these morons...
Has the Twitter blue tick and says it is the official account yet you quote some twitter random. You and many others have been suckered. There was one moron on here who even donated to them 0 -
I take it that moron was you or how else would you who had donated.coopster_the_1st said:
You can hear the back-pedalling from here...rick_chasey said:coopster_the_1st said:Sunlight is the best disinfectant and too many support these morons...
Has the Twitter blue tick and says it is the official account yet you quote some twitter random. You and many others have been suckered. There was one moron on here who even donated to them0 -
Somebody posted on this thread that they had donated.webboo said:
I take it that moron was you or how else would you who had donated.coopster_the_1st said:
You can hear the back-pedalling from here...rick_chasey said:coopster_the_1st said:Sunlight is the best disinfectant and too many support these morons...
Has the Twitter blue tick and says it is the official account yet you quote some twitter random. You and many others have been suckered. There was one moron on here who even donated to them"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
