Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting
Comments
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Apparently it stoked tensions according to Ballysurrey_commuter said:
the outcome of the white drivers showing solidarity has to be a plus pointJeremy.89 said:
What other black nascar drivers?surrey_commuter said:maybe they just don't like Bubba because of his personality?
Is there a pattern of similar incidents with other Black Nascar drivers?
maybe he could accept nascar is a hillbilly sport and switch to a more liberal, metropolitan form a motor racing with a more diverse drivership such as F!?
The story is a bit bizzare. Man sees symbol with what are unquestionably racist connotations had it been left deliberately for him. Fellow drivers show support for him, which is quite a classy act. Investigation shows that the knot hadn't been left for him. Which is also good news, although obviously it's a fairly dubious symbol in the deep south.0 -
I'm sorry, what possible defence could there be in putting it up if it was intended for him? Of course nobody defended it when they thought it was aimed at him.nickice said:
It had been there for months and he didn't even see it. It was roundly condemned and not a single person came out to defend it (when they thought it was aimed at him). This whole thing is a joke.DeVlaeminck said:
But were your scouts in the southern states of the USA?nickice said:
Maybe someone is just immature? When I was in Scouts someone fashioned a rope into a noose.DeVlaeminck said:In the UK I wouldn't really associate a noose with lynching but it'd be understandable if that is the association in the southern states of the USA.
Let's be honest - if that's the case and the latest photo is genuine that has been done with racist intent even if it wasn't to target Bubba (I'm not on first name terms just can't remember his second name - was going to say Watson but got a feeling that's a golfer!).
The original picture was from a distance and looked a bit less noose like - but then being from a distance it's not enough to say it's not the same knot/noose.
It may have been immature but assuming the noose does have a different significance over there - which seems a reasonable assumption - it's still a racist act albeit one done out of immaturity rather than some strongly held racist views.0 -
I think what he was saying is that it adds to the BLM narrative and encourages people to justify the protests that inevitably turn violent.. Do you think race relations will be better or worse after all this is over?rick_chasey said:
Apparently it stoked tensions according to Ballysurrey_commuter said:
the outcome of the white drivers showing solidarity has to be a plus pointJeremy.89 said:
What other black nascar drivers?surrey_commuter said:maybe they just don't like Bubba because of his personality?
Is there a pattern of similar incidents with other Black Nascar drivers?
maybe he could accept nascar is a hillbilly sport and switch to a more liberal, metropolitan form a motor racing with a more diverse drivership such as F!?
The story is a bit bizzare. Man sees symbol with what are unquestionably racist connotations had it been left deliberately for him. Fellow drivers show support for him, which is quite a classy act. Investigation shows that the knot hadn't been left for him. Which is also good news, although obviously it's a fairly dubious symbol in the deep south.0 -
After what? Solidarity for a black guy for something they thought was racist, in a sport where it is super common to see the confederate flag?0
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Well none. That was exactly the point. If there were a huge problem with racism people would have been writing it off as a joke or just ignoring him.veronese68 said:
I'm sorry, what possible defence could there be in putting it up if it was intended for him? Of course nobody defended it when they thought it was aimed at him.nickice said:
It had been there for months and he didn't even see it. It was roundly condemned and not a single person came out to defend it (when they thought it was aimed at him). This whole thing is a joke.DeVlaeminck said:
But were your scouts in the southern states of the USA?nickice said:
Maybe someone is just immature? When I was in Scouts someone fashioned a rope into a noose.DeVlaeminck said:In the UK I wouldn't really associate a noose with lynching but it'd be understandable if that is the association in the southern states of the USA.
Let's be honest - if that's the case and the latest photo is genuine that has been done with racist intent even if it wasn't to target Bubba (I'm not on first name terms just can't remember his second name - was going to say Watson but got a feeling that's a golfer!).
The original picture was from a distance and looked a bit less noose like - but then being from a distance it's not enough to say it's not the same knot/noose.
It may have been immature but assuming the noose does have a different significance over there - which seems a reasonable assumption - it's still a racist act albeit one done out of immaturity rather than some strongly held racist views.0 -
Better. Fewer people will be completely ignorant of the issue.nickice said:
I think what he was saying is that it adds to the BLM narrative and encourages people to justify the protests that inevitably turn violent.. Do you think race relations will be better or worse after all this is over?rick_chasey said:
Apparently it stoked tensions according to Ballysurrey_commuter said:
the outcome of the white drivers showing solidarity has to be a plus pointJeremy.89 said:
What other black nascar drivers?surrey_commuter said:maybe they just don't like Bubba because of his personality?
Is there a pattern of similar incidents with other Black Nascar drivers?
maybe he could accept nascar is a hillbilly sport and switch to a more liberal, metropolitan form a motor racing with a more diverse drivership such as F!?
The story is a bit bizzare. Man sees symbol with what are unquestionably racist connotations had it been left deliberately for him. Fellow drivers show support for him, which is quite a classy act. Investigation shows that the knot hadn't been left for him. Which is also good news, although obviously it's a fairly dubious symbol in the deep south.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How big would you like it to be before you consider it worthy of consideration? I mean 25% of the population seems significant.nickice said:
Well none. That was exactly the point. If there were a huge problem with racism people would have been writing it off as a joke or just ignoring him.veronese68 said:
I'm sorry, what possible defence could there be in putting it up if it was intended for him? Of course nobody defended it when they thought it was aimed at him.nickice said:
It had been there for months and he didn't even see it. It was roundly condemned and not a single person came out to defend it (when they thought it was aimed at him). This whole thing is a joke.DeVlaeminck said:
But were your scouts in the southern states of the USA?nickice said:
Maybe someone is just immature? When I was in Scouts someone fashioned a rope into a noose.DeVlaeminck said:In the UK I wouldn't really associate a noose with lynching but it'd be understandable if that is the association in the southern states of the USA.
Let's be honest - if that's the case and the latest photo is genuine that has been done with racist intent even if it wasn't to target Bubba (I'm not on first name terms just can't remember his second name - was going to say Watson but got a feeling that's a golfer!).
The original picture was from a distance and looked a bit less noose like - but then being from a distance it's not enough to say it's not the same knot/noose.
It may have been immature but assuming the noose does have a different significance over there - which seems a reasonable assumption - it's still a racist act albeit one done out of immaturity rather than some strongly held racist views.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Bigger than 0% of Nascar fans and drivers.rjsterry said:
How big would you like it to be before you consider it worthy of consideration? I mean 25% of the population seems significant.nickice said:
Well none. That was exactly the point. If there were a huge problem with racism people would have been writing it off as a joke or just ignoring him.veronese68 said:
I'm sorry, what possible defence could there be in putting it up if it was intended for him? Of course nobody defended it when they thought it was aimed at him.nickice said:
It had been there for months and he didn't even see it. It was roundly condemned and not a single person came out to defend it (when they thought it was aimed at him). This whole thing is a joke.DeVlaeminck said:
But were your scouts in the southern states of the USA?nickice said:
Maybe someone is just immature? When I was in Scouts someone fashioned a rope into a noose.DeVlaeminck said:In the UK I wouldn't really associate a noose with lynching but it'd be understandable if that is the association in the southern states of the USA.
Let's be honest - if that's the case and the latest photo is genuine that has been done with racist intent even if it wasn't to target Bubba (I'm not on first name terms just can't remember his second name - was going to say Watson but got a feeling that's a golfer!).
The original picture was from a distance and looked a bit less noose like - but then being from a distance it's not enough to say it's not the same knot/noose.
It may have been immature but assuming the noose does have a different significance over there - which seems a reasonable assumption - it's still a racist act albeit one done out of immaturity rather than some strongly held racist views.0 -
My word there are few people on here who take themselves far too seriously.
not enough of a clue that I was joking? "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
A bigger clue would have been that it was funnyblazing_saddles said:My word there are few people on here who take themselves far too seriously.
not enough of a clue that I was joking?0 -
.................................rick_chasey said:
A bigger clue would have been that it was funnyblazing_saddles said:My word there are few people on here who take themselves far too seriously.
not enough of a clue that I was joking?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
In the sailing world this rope has been spliced. A splice is not a knot.rjsterry said:
FFS. That's clearly not a noose. It's a very distinctive knot. If you are going to troll, put some effort in.blazing_saddles said:Who knew? The Church of All Saints are not so saintly when tying up their bell ropes.
How's this for a bit of graphic symbolism?
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Was going to say this. An eye splice, I think. I know them from calving ropes rather than sailing.john80 said:
In the sailing world this rope has been spliced. A splice is not a knot.rjsterry said:
FFS. That's clearly not a noose. It's a very distinctive knot. If you are going to troll, put some effort in.blazing_saddles said:Who knew? The Church of All Saints are not so saintly when tying up their bell ropes.
How's this for a bit of graphic symbolism?
#knotnerd1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Is that what you read into this?rick_chasey said:
Apparently it stoked tensions according to Ballysurrey_commuter said:
the outcome of the white drivers showing solidarity has to be a plus pointJeremy.89 said:
What other black nascar drivers?surrey_commuter said:maybe they just don't like Bubba because of his personality?
Is there a pattern of similar incidents with other Black Nascar drivers?
maybe he could accept nascar is a hillbilly sport and switch to a more liberal, metropolitan form a motor racing with a more diverse drivership such as F!?
The story is a bit bizzare. Man sees symbol with what are unquestionably racist connotations had it been left deliberately for him. Fellow drivers show support for him, which is quite a classy act. Investigation shows that the knot hadn't been left for him. Which is also good news, although obviously it's a fairly dubious symbol in the deep south.
Tbh I thought it would've been obvious.
After several high profile cases involving excessive use of force against the black population by US law enforcement agencies, the drivers publicised this as another racially motivated incident.
They publicised an incident purporting to be synonymous with lynching in the Southern US, directed at the only black driver in NASCAR. The incident was false.
So against the background of what is currently happening in the US, do you think publicising an incident, where a black man was threatened with lynching, raised or lowered the temperature?
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Do you think the better approach would have been to cover it up, find out it was a genuine attack, and then have it leaked?0
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You can't cover something up that didn't happen can you?Jeremy.89 said:Do you think the better approach would have been to cover it up, find out it was a genuine attack, and then have it leaked?
As I posted earlier, the most rudimentary investigation would have established the validity, or lack of in this case, of the allegation.
According to the report, there is video evidence showing that it had been there since at least last October. NASCAR would surely have had access to this.
Besides, all someone had to do was ask the previous occupant of the garage if they remembered seeing it. Lo and behold, they did!
No need to bother Sherlock Holmes on this one was there?1 -
Some knots and splices are very artistic.rjsterry said:
Was going to say this. An eye splice, I think. I know them from calving ropes rather than sailing.john80 said:
In the sailing world this rope has been spliced. A splice is not a knot.rjsterry said:
FFS. That's clearly not a noose. It's a very distinctive knot. If you are going to troll, put some effort in.blazing_saddles said:Who knew? The Church of All Saints are not so saintly when tying up their bell ropes.
How's this for a bit of graphic symbolism?
#knotnerd0 -
The Teddy Roosevelt statue from the front of the Natural History Museum in New York is to go.
I had read this before seeing a picture
I can see why people would think it should go
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
By all means show solidarity, but imo giving publicity to an incident that didn't actually happen only stokes tensions.rick_chasey said:After what? Solidarity for a black guy for something they thought was racist, in a sport where it is super common to see the confederate flag?
You obviously feel that the facts don't matter so much as long as your cause is just. and that the raising spectre of a lynching did not inflame the situation, given current feelings in the US. Obviously, I still disagree.
Closer to home.
Twelve months ago, a teenager reported that she had been groomed by an Asian gang and trafficked across the north of England for sex. Last month, having found no evidence to corroborate her allegation, the police charged her with attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Now, according to some on here, if the good people in the northern towns had 'shown solidarity' with her and given the story greater traction by giving it publicity, it would not have had an adverse effect on race relations given what has been happening. After all, although the event didn't happen, they would have felt their cause to be just wouldn't they?
Again, I disagree.
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I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
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Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
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Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
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Only to racists and who gives a f@ck about them.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
The show of solidarity was surely only a good thing, however much or little you want to make of symbolic gestures like that.
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Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You asked how I could link the two examples, I told you. I didn't mention slavery or apartheid and I didn't link it to any statue, you're just ranting now.rick_chasey said:
I hadn’t realised white communities in Cumbria had such a torrid time of it that they lived on the wrong end of slavery an apartheid.ballysmate said:
I take it that we can agree that if people had 'shown solidarity' with the girl in Cumbria and publicised the allegation, it would have been detrimental to relations with the Asian communities. This would be doubly unfortunate, as the allegation has turned out to be false.rick_chasey said:Explain how that is an equivalent example since to me it isn’t.
The NASCAR drivers 'showed solidarity' by bringing to the public gaze, an allegation of racism, which was unfortunate, as that also transpired to be false.
If you are happy that the Nascar drivers did not inflame the situation by publicising an incident that did not happen, you would have to be happy if the people of Barrow had publicised an incident that did not happen. You can't pick and choose.
I for one would prefer that people actually protest about things that actually happened, rather than make allowances because I think it a good cause. God knows there are enough incidents to choose from.
That's why I think raising the profile of an incident that has been shown to be false, was unfortunate and raised the temperature unnecessarily.
You obviously think differently, but knowing this will not keep me awake at night.
Or that she was party of a sport where the flag of the pro-said-slavery losing side was regularly flown at the sporting events in which she participated in?
Presumably the taking down of the Colston statue has already made you forget this sort of historical context.
There have been instances of girls in the north being trafficked for sex. I pointed out that it would have been wrong to use false allegations to highlight a problem. Just as I have said it was unfortunate for NASCAR to use an incident that turned out to not be true.
But if you think it all fine and dandy for people to use an incident that turns out to be false as long as it is a sympathetic cause, then fine. But don't get all pissy when the Tommy Robinsons of the world use fabrications to whip up public feelings.You can't have it both ways.
But there again, according to you and RJS, publicising an incident would make no difference to public feeling would it?
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You’ve really got the wrong end of the stick here - to the point at which you’re coming up with non sequitur examples.
The context in which the show of solidarity happened is obviously different and the guy himself admitted after the fact that they got the wrong end of the stick.
But the motive is relevant here bally and that’s where the Yaxley-Lennon comparison falls apart. One is the right message (which surely you must agree with) and one isn’t (which you should too).
That is relevant.
I mean why are you so keen to criticise a show of solidarity for black people in a sport which is infamously racist against black people? Do you know what the confederate flag actually represents?
What’s the angle here?0 -
rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
So you really don't accept that portraying an incident as being based on racism has any effect on public mood?rjsterry said:
Who knows? Why don't you see if you can find some evidence to back up your claim.ballysmate said:
Given the current situation in the US, do you think publicising a story where a black man was threatened with a noose had no effect on public feeling? Honestly?rjsterry said:Can you show any evidence of this 'temperature raising' attributable to the specific garage door pull incident?
I mean a bunch of guys pushing the guy's car to the front of the grid, thereby showing that he is one of them, seems decidedly non-inflammatory, but maybe NASCAR fans are a sensitive bunch.
Or maybe not.
An extreme example would be Mark Duggan, whose shooting led to nationwide riots.0
