Froome thinking about leaving Ineos

RichN95.

rick_chasey said:

So point 1: I am sceptical.

Point 2: mind elaborating why Alaphilippe would have played a smaller role? Is it because with Froome around he would have had an extra pair of good legs to control the race more easily, and Froome typically (though obviously not always) like to take earlier leads?

Froome wouldn't have let him and Pinot go on that one stage where he got time (I know Thomas crashed) and he would have ridden the Pyrenees more aggressively - he usually goes hard in the early climbs, which Bernal and Thomas didn't. Alaphilippe did well but they played to his strengths.

gsk82

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

So point 1: I am sceptical.

Point 2: mind elaborating why Alaphilippe would have played a smaller role? Is it because with Froome around he would have had an extra pair of good legs to control the race more easily, and Froome typically (though obviously not always) like to take earlier leads?

Froome wouldn't have let him and Pinot go on that one stage where he got time (I know Thomas crashed) and he would have ridden the Pyrenees more aggressively - he usually goes hard in the early climbs, which Bernal and Thomas didn't. Alaphilippe did well but they played to his strengths.

I thought, and probably said, similar at the time. Froome would have put Alaphilippe in his place. Plus with him in the team, its always far stronger.

In a contest between pre injury Froome and Bernal, I'd go with Froome. I'm not convinced Bernal will be a 3 or 4 time tour winner. I don't know why. Maybe he's too nice?

pblakeney

gsk82 said:

I'm not convinced Bernal will be a 3 or 4 time tour winner. I don't know why. Maybe he's too nice?

That he has said that he will not give up his chances to support another rider may indicate otherwise.

rick_chasey

gsk82 said:

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

So point 1: I am sceptical.

Point 2: mind elaborating why Alaphilippe would have played a smaller role? Is it because with Froome around he would have had an extra pair of good legs to control the race more easily, and Froome typically (though obviously not always) like to take earlier leads?

Froome wouldn't have let him and Pinot go on that one stage where he got time (I know Thomas crashed) and he would have ridden the Pyrenees more aggressively - he usually goes hard in the early climbs, which Bernal and Thomas didn't. Alaphilippe did well but they played to his strengths.

I thought, and probably said, similar at the time. Froome would have put Alaphilippe in his place. Plus with him in the team, its always far stronger.

In a contest between pre injury Froome and Bernal, I'd go with Froome. I'm not convinced Bernal will be a 3 or 4 time tour winner. I don't know why. Maybe he's too nice?

Was pretty relaxed about dropping his team mate and reigning champion.

RichN95.

I think Pogacar will turn out to be better than Bernal in the long run

ddraver

Of anyone in the current (and possibly past) peloton, I'd back Froome to come out of the current mess in the best/least worse condition...

focuszing723

gsk82 said:

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

So point 1: I am sceptical.

Point 2: mind elaborating why Alaphilippe would have played a smaller role? Is it because with Froome around he would have had an extra pair of good legs to control the race more easily, and Froome typically (though obviously not always) like to take earlier leads?

Froome wouldn't have let him and Pinot go on that one stage where he got time (I know Thomas crashed) and he would have ridden the Pyrenees more aggressively - he usually goes hard in the early climbs, which Bernal and Thomas didn't. Alaphilippe did well but they played to his strengths.

I thought, and probably said, similar at the time. Froome would have put Alaphilippe in his place. Plus with him in the team, its always far stronger.

In a contest between pre injury Froome and Bernal, I'd go with Froome. I'm not convinced Bernal will be a 3 or 4 time tour winner. I don't know why. Maybe he's too nice?

Froome's a nice bloke too, but seems to have a taste for victory. Bernal didn't just win the Tour he dealt with all the obligations with aplomb.

gsk82

It may just be that he relied on going over 2 of the highest roads in Europe to win. He was dropped by Pinot a couple of times earlier in the race. Would he win a tour if the Tournament was the highest point?

I have nothing against him. I like how he races and he's a good climber and all round GC rider. I'm probably subconsciously using an on form Chris Froome as the benchmark, since he's been the boss for the past decade. Not really a fair comparison given his age.

redvision

I think these reports may just be part of a renegotiating tactic by froome. His contract is up and he's sending a message to Ineos that he wants a new deal, either with them or elsewhere.

What will be interesting is if no deal has been agreed by the start of the tour (assuming it goes ahead). It will be the first time since moving to Ineos that froome has to prove himself, something which no-one can predict today simply because he hasn't really competed and shown just how much he has recovered from the crash.

That said, whilst I think Bernal is an incredible rider and is going to be very successful at Ineos longterm, I still think a hungry and fit froome would be too strong at this stage of his career.

Looking across the board, it will be very interesting what types of contracts are agreed going forward. Following the pandemic and current situation, teams are going to be reluctant to pay large salaries, particularly over a lengthy contract period, whereas riders will no doubt want the security of longer contracts.

gsk82

Spanish media are supposedly reporting that Movistar are looking at signing him (I know Spain's media don't have the highest of standards). I'd love to see him go there and win a tour.

david37

barring accidents, I cant see Froome beating Bernal now. If Froome is on another team, there is no way on earth that he will win. I want to see Bernal just riding off and ignoring the team rules to put himself first and force brailsford to make him number one.

But if they do have a grudge match i expect to see both being selfish. Bernal has been clear.

No_Ta_Doctor

I'm just imagining how overjoyed Wout Poels and Mikkel Landa would be to hear that they will be towing the Froome train up the mountains again instead of riding for themselves. I mean Mikkel already had to escape Movistar to get a proper shot at his own ride.

No_Ta_Doctor

The day-before-Paris TT actually makes a three way team leadership Tour seriously difficult, and a mouth-watering prospect for fans of team intrigue. Most other years you can play this with "the 2nd week TT will settle it, after that whoever is leading is the leader". This has the potential to go all the way to the line. If Froome or Thomas think they've got a minute or so in the TT on Bernal then they won't sacrifice everything for him if they're reasonably close.

And while last year could have got quite tasty (Thomas was going very, very well) they could still play it as "put one up the road while the other sits in, rinse and repeat - last man standing takes the jersey" I'm not sure it works so well like that with three leaders.

I really, really hope they all ride, on the same team. It could be incredible.

redvision

No_Ta_Doctor said:

I really, really hope they all ride, on the same team. It could be incredible.

Will be even better if they all ride for Ineos and Netflix or sky or someone do an inside the team documentary during the tour (like the movistar netflix series).

RichN95.

No_Ta_Doctor said:

The day-before-Paris TT actually makes a three way team leadership Tour seriously difficult, and a mouth-watering prospect for fans of team intrigue. Most other years you can play this with "the 2nd week TT will settle it, after that whoever is leading is the leader". This has the potential to go all the way to the line. If Froome or Thomas think they've got a minute or so in the TT on Bernal then they won't sacrifice everything for him if they're reasonably close.

And while last year could have got quite tasty (Thomas was going very, very well) they could still play it as "put one up the road while the other sits in, rinse and repeat - last man standing takes the jersey" I'm not sure it works so well like that with three leaders.

I really, really hope they all ride, on the same team. It could be incredible.

In that situation though Jumbo, for example, could let Bernal go so he gets a little time and gets installed as leader, knowing that Roglic or Dumoulin can recoup in the TT.

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95. said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

The day-before-Paris TT actually makes a three way team leadership Tour seriously difficult, and a mouth-watering prospect for fans of team intrigue. Most other years you can play this with "the 2nd week TT will settle it, after that whoever is leading is the leader". This has the potential to go all the way to the line. If Froome or Thomas think they've got a minute or so in the TT on Bernal then they won't sacrifice everything for him if they're reasonably close.

And while last year could have got quite tasty (Thomas was going very, very well) they could still play it as "put one up the road while the other sits in, rinse and repeat - last man standing takes the jersey" I'm not sure it works so well like that with three leaders.

I really, really hope they all ride, on the same team. It could be incredible.

In that situation though Jumbo, for example, could let Bernal go so he gets a little time and gets installed as leader, knowing that Roglic or Dumoulin can recoup in the TT.

Yeah, but the next day Froome goes instead and Bernal sits in. They catch Froome, Bernal attacks.

50x11

RichN95. said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

The day-before-Paris TT actually makes a three way team leadership Tour seriously difficult, and a mouth-watering prospect for fans of team intrigue. Most other years you can play this with "the 2nd week TT will settle it, after that whoever is leading is the leader". This has the potential to go all the way to the line. If Froome or Thomas think they've got a minute or so in the TT on Bernal then they won't sacrifice everything for him if they're reasonably close.

And while last year could have got quite tasty (Thomas was going very, very well) they could still play it as "put one up the road while the other sits in, rinse and repeat - last man standing takes the jersey" I'm not sure it works so well like that with three leaders.

I really, really hope they all ride, on the same team. It could be incredible.

In that situation though Jumbo, for example, could let Bernal go so he gets a little time and gets installed as leader, knowing that Roglic or Dumoulin can recoup in the TT.

That's dependant on them being able to stay close enough to Bernal to win the TT and over turn him. Whilst also opening a gap to both Froome and Thomas on the mountains, knowing they won't have a massive gap over them in the TT.

Pross

There's unlikely to be a Tour or even season this year so why would you leave possibly the only team that will come out of the current situation intact?

pblakeney

Well, if only one team comes out intact then there is no point in that team. 😉

RichN95.

Pross said:

There's unlikely to be a Tour or even season this year so why would you leave possibly the only team that will come out of the current situation intact?

What if he can bring in his own sponsor to take over a struggling team? And cherry pick signings from the other failing teams.

CCC - Hirt, Masnada, GVA, Zakarin, Trentin - that's a start of a decent Tour team. Bring back Richie....


As a side comment. If CCC fold GVA would be a great Ineos signing.

ocdupalais

If CCC fold GVA would be a great Ineos signing.

Yeah - With him and Rohan Dennis, they'd clean up on Swift.

TheBigBean

Is it just me that is disappointed every time a well known rider signs for Ineos?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

Is it just me that is disappointed every time a well known rider signs for Ineos?

No, especially with classics riders.

Really annoys me Kwia has turned into a glorified domestique who chances it in the one day races rather than the other way around.

rick_chasey

RichN95. said:

Pross said:

There's unlikely to be a Tour or even season this year so why would you leave possibly the only team that will come out of the current situation intact?

What if he can bring in his own sponsor to take over a struggling team? And cherry pick signings from the other failing teams.

CCC - Hirt, Masnada, GVA, Zakarin, Trentin - that's a start of a decent Tour team. Bring back Richie....


As a side comment. If CCC fold GVA would be a great Ineos signing.

Would GvA be happy doing it the ineos way?

Not convinced. Especially with Kwia there.

mrfpb

If Froome wants the 5th TdF, and Brailsford wants him to get a 5th TdF, then surely they'd just leave Bernal at home. Ask Wiggins.

DeVlaeminck

Wiggins was the past though, more risk in upsetting your future.

shinyhelmut

mrfpb said:

If Froome wants the 5th TdF, and Brailsford wants him to get a 5th TdF, then surely they'd just leave Bernal at home. Ask Wiggins.

I get the impression that Brailsford would rather win His 8th tour with whoever is strongest than worry about favouring Froome.

sherer

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

Is it just me that is disappointed every time a well known rider signs for Ineos?

No, especially with classics riders.

Really annoys me Kwia has turned into a glorified domestique who chances it in the one day races rather than the other way around.

Yes I get exactly what you mean. Guess the wages must be good though, he lives in Monaco and doesnt seem too upset. You could mix it up more in the classics though

50x11

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

Is it just me that is disappointed every time a well known rider signs for Ineos?

No, especially with classics riders.

Really annoys me Kwia has turned into a glorified domestique who chances it in the one day races rather than the other way around.

I'm not sure he's doing so badly, he's won a monument, E3, Strada, national titles, Tirreno, and various other GC's.

Barring the world championships he's been at his best under Ineos, and I'm sure he's not been short of offers to move.

gsk82

50x11 said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

Is it just me that is disappointed every time a well known rider signs for Ineos?

No, especially with classics riders.

Really annoys me Kwia has turned into a glorified domestique who chances it in the one day races rather than the other way around.

I'm not sure he's doing so badly, he's won a monument, E3, Strada, national titles, Tirreno, and various other GC's.

Barring the world championships he's been at his best under Ineos, and I'm sure he's not been short of offers to move.

I agree 100% with Rick. Kwiatkowski should be one of the best one day riders in the world, but he's just fizzling out in to nothing as it is. He disappoints me more every season