The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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Pretty sure there's an appropriate thread for that Rick. One of the points I have made is that there is way more to this debate than the narrow brief that you and a few others are working to. I think quite a few people will agree.rick_chasey said:
Well what about the state run health service or wider government response is not the government’s fault?Stevo_666 said:
Thats a start. I read that as 'the pandemic is not their fault (because only a raving lunatic would claIm that), but pretty much everything else is."rick_chasey said:It’s not the gov’ts fault that there is a pandemic.
This thread though: another example of this cabinet’s appalling ability to do anything good when it come to the actual health bit."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
While this might confirm our suspicions on the abilities of some members of cabinet, I do find these "a cabinet source said..." reports pretty irritating, not least because they always have the whiff of internal scores being settled.rick_chasey said:
Who are these f@cking morons.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Like what?!Stevo_666 said:
Pretty sure there's an appropriate thread for that Rick. One of the points I have made is that there is way more to this debate than the narrow brief that you and a few others are working to. I think quite a few people will agree.rick_chasey said:
Well what about the state run health service or wider government response is not the government’s fault?Stevo_666 said:
Thats a start. I read that as 'the pandemic is not their fault (because only a raving lunatic would claIm that), but pretty much everything else is."rick_chasey said:It’s not the gov’ts fault that there is a pandemic.
This thread though: another example of this cabinet’s appalling ability to do anything good when it come to the actual health bit.0 -
Just to find one positive. At least it seems the Government is planning ahead and funding production of the Oxford Uni vaccine so that it will be ready to go if the human trials that start next week are a success. Fingers crossed and hopefully if there are early signs of it working maybe production can be ramped up further in both the UK and internationally.0
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Or even just a figment of a journalist's imagination with the old fall back of 'protecting their sources' if challenged.rjsterry said:
While this might confirm our suspicions on the abilities of some members of cabinet, I do find these "a cabinet source said..." reports pretty irritating, not least because they always have the whiff of internal scores being settled.rick_chasey said:
Who are these f@cking morons.0 -
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What thread? Is it the one about the new UCL / Mercedes / Airbus product that has been designed and approved for use within weeks and will reduce the need for traditional ventilators? Found that quite positive to be honest.rick_chasey said:That ventilator thread is absolutely damning.
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No the one I posted earlier today.Pross said:
What thread? Is it the one about the new UCL / Mercedes / Airbus product that has been designed and approved for use within weeks and will reduce the need for traditional ventilators? Found that quite positive to be honest.rick_chasey said:That ventilator thread is absolutely damning.
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Yes but why are you focussing on that when you appeared to completely ignore when someone posted the story that a brand new product, which will hopefully minimise the need for much more intrusive ventilators, has been approved for use?rick_chasey said:
No the one I posted earlier today.Pross said:
What thread? Is it the one about the new UCL / Mercedes / Airbus product that has been designed and approved for use within weeks and will reduce the need for traditional ventilators? Found that quite positive to be honest.rick_chasey said:That ventilator thread is absolutely damning.
Do you still not understand why people criticise your negativity?1 -
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Pross said:
Yes but why are you focussing on that when you appeared to completely ignore when someone posted the story that a brand new product, which will hopefully minimise the need for much more intrusive ventilators, has been approved for use?rick_chasey said:
No the one I posted earlier today.Pross said:
What thread? Is it the one about the new UCL / Mercedes / Airbus product that has been designed and approved for use within weeks and will reduce the need for traditional ventilators? Found that quite positive to be honest.rick_chasey said:That ventilator thread is absolutely damning.
Do you still not understand why people criticise your negativity?
Why look at a positive story when it is possible to wallow in the depths of negativity all your life.......0 -
You didn’t read it either, did you?kingstonian said:Pross said:
Yes but why are you focussing on that when you appeared to completely ignore when someone posted the story that a brand new product, which will hopefully minimise the need for much more intrusive ventilators, has been approved for use?rick_chasey said:
No the one I posted earlier today.Pross said:
What thread? Is it the one about the new UCL / Mercedes / Airbus product that has been designed and approved for use within weeks and will reduce the need for traditional ventilators? Found that quite positive to be honest.rick_chasey said:That ventilator thread is absolutely damning.
Do you still not understand why people criticise your negativity?
Why look at a positive story when it is possible to wallow in the depths of negativity all your life.......0 -
Anyone a registered actuary?
They’ve published their analysis ( Continuous Mortality Investigation (CMI) )of the ONS figures re excess death & other coronavirus but only for registered actuaries.
Read somewhere they put the U.K. excess death figure at 25k all in...0 -
https://www.newstatesman.com/2020/04/eleven-days-may-have-tragically-cost-uk-fight-against-coronavirus
The eleven days that may have tragically cost the UK in the fight against coronavirus
Quite liked the final para in it.It is up to us all to challenge, to question, to argue, all day long. It is not “unhelpful” or unpatriotic or whatever else the gaslighters will say. It is our right, our duty. Our lives, our friends’ lives, our families’ lives, may very well depend on it.0 -
But that means spending another £100bn on the train over the next two decades to justify spending £5bn this year.rick_chasey said:
Is there another project which can start in the next month that is a better use of money but still keeps employment up?First.Aspect said:
Yeeees Rick I think most people agree with the general idea. Skip over your baffling support of HS2 why don't you.rick_chasey said:
Creating/keeping jobs in a depression > spending on debt. Especially when borrowing is so cheap.surrey_commuter said:
This only works if you place no negative value on the cost of the debt.rick_chasey said:
I get that but in a depression the most important thing is just someone spending money to get it all going again and you can’t trust individuals to do that since it wouldn’t be rational, so the govt has to step up. Hence “counter-cyclical”kingstongraham said:
Because it was already bad value, doesn't give great benefits, isn't ever going to go past Birmingham, and will mean that they will spend less on actually useful infrastructure projects. And now even the official projection has its value for money as "Poor".rick_chasey said:
Why is it incredible?kingstongraham said:
Even now, a month after this, HS2 is somehow far from being cancelled, it is being prioritised.rjsterry said:
I think this might just take priority over HS2. The nearest equivalent this country has seen was the outbreak of WW2. I would expect similar borrowing, expenditure and repayment over decades to get through it.surrey_commuter said:
The censored had already embarked on the largest ever fiscal expansion, so what are his options switch money from his bridge fund or borrow more?rjsterry said:
Expect that to increase.pblakeney said:I see that we have a war chest of 12 billion to fight the financial aspects of the virus.
Divide that by 66 million and it doesn’t go far.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52293055
Incredible.
Counter cyclical spending on things like infrastructure is textbook stuff.
German rearmament was certainly not good value for money but it lifted Germany out of The Depression faster than any other nation, because they were just spending like mad.
Depressions are (mainly) demand side so you just gotta stimulate.
If you believe there is a cost to the debt then it will be paid in less spending on health, education and welfare
For the same reason most people agree with the gov’ts loan and furlough schemes.
The inconvenient part of the discussion from your point of view is that there is more than one way to spend money - either on something useful, like the Hoover Dam or the Bay Bridge, or something useless like the Humber Bridge.
I think we’d all like to know.
As per above the priority is spending the money and creating the jobs. Given HS2 is already underway it’s easy for it to do that.
If your better value project can’t get lots of jobs going from this month onwards it’s not meeting priority number one. If it can then let’s hear it. You could save the govt billions in value.
I would rather the govt spends on HS2 than nothing at this point.
If you must spend money then why not fix the roads or a myriad of small improvements to road and rail. Or are you not interested because your ego wants your name forever associated with a grandiose project.
Would probably be better value to scrap it and pay people £5bn to undo the work already done.0 -
On what basis is the U.K. performance anything other than rubbish? In context of being a G10 nation.First.Aspect said:
It is outdone by US incompetence which you all seem to be able to see.0 -
There are many things that the government could spend its money on detailed by the committee on climate change. Massive grid upgrade being one of them.0
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rjsterry said:
The last reported direct cost of cancellation was £12bn on top of £7.5bn already spent. That was back in January before C19 was being considered. That's obviously less than the projected final cost, but the point is that would be the best part of £20bn for nothing as opposed to £100bn of something which has some asset value and at least stands a chance of generating some revenue.surrey_commuter said:
Genuine question - why is it more expensive to cancel?rjsterry said:
Because HS2 has already started being built. They've CPed the land. Demolished buildings. It's past the point of being more expensive to cancel than go forward. Plus Johnson loves a bit of transport infrastructure so I think this train has left the station.focuszing723 said:
That couldn't be a better analogy for me. The time HS2 is complete, for all we know the fast lane could turn into a 10 metre apart autonomous vehicle congestion buster.First.Aspect said:
Yes. For example I can immediately see that stimulating the economy by building a white elephant isn't the way to go.rick_chasey said:Yeah sorry First, you operate on a higher plane to me.
Canals, we need more canals. Much better than moving goods by pack horse. Lots of navvies would get jobs in the meantime.
Why not put the money into smaller projects dispersed around the country as already mentioned.
I always think the snake oil purveyors of these pet projects rush to get to this mythical point
On that maths I would still cancel. Selling the land back would raise a few quid.0 -
The Euston bit would fit a lot of flats.surrey_commuter said:rjsterry said:
The last reported direct cost of cancellation was £12bn on top of £7.5bn already spent. That was back in January before C19 was being considered. That's obviously less than the projected final cost, but the point is that would be the best part of £20bn for nothing as opposed to £100bn of something which has some asset value and at least stands a chance of generating some revenue.surrey_commuter said:
Genuine question - why is it more expensive to cancel?rjsterry said:
Because HS2 has already started being built. They've CPed the land. Demolished buildings. It's past the point of being more expensive to cancel than go forward. Plus Johnson loves a bit of transport infrastructure so I think this train has left the station.focuszing723 said:
That couldn't be a better analogy for me. The time HS2 is complete, for all we know the fast lane could turn into a 10 metre apart autonomous vehicle congestion buster.First.Aspect said:
Yes. For example I can immediately see that stimulating the economy by building a white elephant isn't the way to go.rick_chasey said:Yeah sorry First, you operate on a higher plane to me.
Canals, we need more canals. Much better than moving goods by pack horse. Lots of navvies would get jobs in the meantime.
Why not put the money into smaller projects dispersed around the country as already mentioned.
I always think the snake oil purveyors of these pet projects rush to get to this mythical point
On that maths I would still cancel. Selling the land back would raise a few quid.0 -
It seems Matt Damon has (ironically) found himself stranded in Ireland for the lockdown.
The heart warming story of the day is the good people of Dalkey telling the journalist from the NYT to eff off and leave him be.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1 -
rick_chasey said:
It’s not the gov’ts fault that there is a pandemic.
This thread though: another example of this cabinet’s appalling ability to do anything good when it come to the actual health bit.
I am sure building existing ventilators under licence was advocated on here as quicker and safer0 -
...it wassurrey_commuter said:rick_chasey said:It’s not the gov’ts fault that there is a pandemic.
This thread though: another example of this cabinet’s appalling ability to do anything good when it come to the actual health bit.
I am sure building existing ventilators under licence was advocated on here as quicker and safer0 -
The US comparison I do find weird.rick_chasey said:
On what basis is the U.K. performance anything other than rubbish? In context of being a G10 nation.First.Aspect said:
It is outdone by US incompetence which you all seem to be able to see.
I think it is hard coded into Brits that we are inherently better than JF and firmly believe that we have the best system of Govt, legal system, civil service, armed forces, police, health service etc in the world.
It is only when you work with JF that you find they are concerned about being pregnant in the UK and find it laughable that our Minister for Health is a career politician rather than a healthcare professional with experience of running a large medical based organisation. FFS, three weeks after he contracted a life threatening illness we don’t even have a process in place for determining who steps in if the PM is incapacitated.
Will people thank me for pointing out the obvious flaws or...0 -
Talking to people who were on the periphery of the supply, many of the current designs involve bits that aren't suited to the mass manufacturing capability that we had available.rick_chasey said:
...it wassurrey_commuter said:rick_chasey said:It’s not the gov’ts fault that there is a pandemic.
This thread though: another example of this cabinet’s appalling ability to do anything good when it come to the actual health bit.
I am sure building existing ventilators under licence was advocated on here as quicker and safer
This is more than just a ooo look bike radar had the solution to the problem, aren't we brilliant scenario. This ispoliticians failing to marry up customer requirements supplier capabilities and media pressure.
This is to some extent a similar phenomenon to HS2.
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That's the thing about confirmation bias. You can't objectively assess whether or not you have it yourself.rick_chasey said:
On what basis is the U.K. performance anything other than rubbish? In context of being a G10 nation.First.Aspect said:
It is outdone by US incompetence which you all seem to be able to see.1 -
Yes. It was going on about the YouTube instructions being to make an obsolet 1960s design. Not sure how that changes the point that you are fixated on the bad things like that but ignore anything positive like the UCL design.rick_chasey said:You didn’t read it did you?
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I think it may be an issue with people who work in media and financial services. They don't appreciate the processes and supply chain in making things.Jeremy.89 said:
Talking to people who were on the periphery of the supply, many of the current designs involve bits that aren't suited to the mass manufacturing capability that we had available.rick_chasey said:
...it wassurrey_commuter said:rick_chasey said:It’s not the gov’ts fault that there is a pandemic.
This thread though: another example of this cabinet’s appalling ability to do anything good when it come to the actual health bit.
I am sure building existing ventilators under licence was advocated on here as quicker and safer
This is more than just a ooo look bike radar had the solution to the problem, aren't we brilliant scenario. This ispoliticians failing to marry up customer requirements supplier capabilities and media pressure.
This is to some extent a similar phenomenon to HS2.0 -
Are you talking in the context of CV or something else? If you're talking about CV which of the other 9 has done significantly better? I'll give you Germany and Switzerland. Japan seems to have somehow done well without really doing much, some think they may have held back on the impact because of the Olympics but I'm sceptical about that. I don't know much about Canada but it's sparsely populated and feels fairly insular. Sweden and The Netherlands seem to have gone down the route of do nothing or very little, France and Italy are very similar to us and the US is probably being held together by State Governors while the Federal Government seems keen to remove all measures ASAP.rick_chasey said:
On what basis is the U.K. performance anything other than rubbish? In context of being a G10 nation.First.Aspect said:
It is outdone by US incompetence which you all seem to be able to see.0 -
Pross said:
Are you talking in the context of CV or something else? If you're talking about CV which of the other 9 has done significantly better? I'll give you Germany and Switzerland. Japan seems to have somehow done well without really doing much, some think they may have held back on the impact because of the Olympics but I'm sceptical about that. I don't know much about Canada but it's sparsely populated and feels fairly insular. Sweden and The Netherlands seem to have gone down the route of do nothing or very little, France and Italy are very similar to us and the US is probably being held together by State Governors while the Federal Government seems keen to remove all measures ASAP.rick_chasey said:
On what basis is the U.K. performance anything other than rubbish? In context of being a G10 nation.First.Aspect said:
It is outdone by US incompetence which you all seem to be able to see.
The Netherlands has quite a strict lockdown. I only know because my wife’s family are scattered across the country.
One interesting anecdote was that in the week leading up to Easter, where my in-laws live (Zeeland, on the coast close to the Belgian border) was inundated by German and Belgian families who had decided to get away for a little holiday. Incredible how so many people can be living in a country that is locked down, and still think it is perfectly sensible to then go away for a short break to another country also in lockdown.0
