The big Coronavirus thread

TheBigBean

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Wife has some cousins in Australia and they have not been impressed with their government's response. On the other hand Von der Leyen is discussing mandatory vaccination in EU states.

Think it is considerable scope creep for her job.

I would agree.

The devil would be in the detail of what she actually said... if she thinks it's in her purview (cue Malcolm Tucker quotation), then yes. Though I'd not be totally surprised if there's some lazy reporting going on.

You can listen to her words here. "Potentially think about mandatory vaccines"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/eu-must-consider-mandatory-covid-jabs-says-von-der-leyen

rjsterry

Regardless of how stupid I think antivaxers are I think mandatory medical treatment of any sort crosses a red line.

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Wife has some cousins in Australia and they have not been impressed with their government's response. On the other hand Von der Leyen is discussing mandatory vaccination in EU states.

Think it is considerable scope creep for her job.

I would agree.

The devil would be in the detail of what she actually said... if she thinks it's in her purview (cue Malcolm Tucker quotation), then yes. Though I'd not be totally surprised if there's some lazy reporting going on.

You can listen to her words here. "Potentially think about mandatory vaccines"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/eu-must-consider-mandatory-covid-jabs-says-von-der-leyen

That's not actually stating that the EU itself is thinking about going to impose mandatory vaccines. To me it reads more like encouraging a discussion about it between the nations within the EU. "Within" does not imply an EU-imposed mandate "throughout". I can't see that it's outside of her remit to encourage a discussion about a common approach.

“How we can encourage and potentially think about mandatory vaccination within the European Union, this needs discussion. This needs a common approach, but it is a discussion that I think has to be met.”

briantrumpet

Sorry, weird syntax, but can't be aarsed to edit.

joe2019

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

Regardless of how stupid I think antivaxers are I think mandatory medical treatment of any sort crosses a red line.

Indeed: if you are aware how many safeguards are in place for the administration of drugs for sectioned patients, I don't actually see how you can force people to be injected against their will, short of arresting them and strapping them down.

First.Aspect

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Why?

joe2019

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Why?

Mandatory vaccination for her.

briantrumpet

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Why?

Mandatory vaccination for her.

Is that because she's in an industry where it's mandated, e.g (WA)

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/A_E/Coronavirus/COVID19-vaccination-program/Mandatory-COVID19-vaccination

Pross

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Is she not allowed to leave?

Also, is a dictatorship better or worse than a police state like some on here have said the UK is?

joe2019

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Why?

Mandatory vaccination for her.

Is that because she's in an industry where it's mandated, e.g (WA)

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/A_E/Coronavirus/COVID19-vaccination-program/Mandatory-COVID19-vaccination

Yes

briantrumpet

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Why?

Mandatory vaccination for her.

Is that because she's in an industry where it's mandated, e.g (WA)

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/A_E/Coronavirus/COVID19-vaccination-program/Mandatory-COVID19-vaccination

Yes

If that's a reply to me, then it's not a dictatorship. She can choose to leave her job if she refuses to be vaccinated. Same as care-workers and medics here.

joe2019

Pross said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Is she not allowed to leave?

Also, is a dictatorship better or worse than a police state like some on here have said the UK is?

She has raised a young family there, her husband also has a child by an Australian lady, so she couldn't really leave even if she wanted to.

Second question, I wouldn't know.

briantrumpet

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Is she not allowed to leave?

Also, is a dictatorship better or worse than a police state like some on here have said the UK is?

She has raised a young family there, her husband also has a child by an Australian lady, so she couldn't really leave even if she wanted to.

Second question, I wouldn't know.

If she's refusing to be vaccinated, sure, no easy choices, but she has choices. There are several ways I could forfeit the right to work where I do, if I refused to do things I'm required to by law. I've no automatic right to my job.

joe2019

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Why?

Mandatory vaccination for her.

Is that because she's in an industry where it's mandated, e.g (WA)

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/A_E/Coronavirus/COVID19-vaccination-program/Mandatory-COVID19-vaccination

Yes

If that's a reply to me, then it's not a dictatorship. She can choose to leave her job if she refuses to be vaccinated. Same as care-workers and medics here.

She's vaccinated just believes that people should have a choice.

For example, pro athletes in Victoria are mandated to be vaccinated.

First.Aspect

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Is she not allowed to leave?

Also, is a dictatorship better or worse than a police state like some on here have said the UK is?

She has raised a young family there, her husband also has a child by an Australian lady, so she couldn't really leave even if she wanted to.

Second question, I wouldn't know.

It's hard to feel sympathy to be honest.

rjsterry

Knowing someone who has lived in an actual dictatorship (Belarus) I suspect that Australia is not actually like a dictatorship. You won't get bundled into a van, beaten and disappeared just for saying you don't think much of Scott Morrison.

joe2019

rjsterry said:

Knowing someone who has lived in an actual dictatorship (Belarus) I suspect that Australia is not actually like a dictatorship. You won't get bundled into a van, beaten and disappeared just for saying you don't think much of Scott Morrison.

I guess it was a figure of speech.

briantrumpet

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

TheBigBean said:

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

My wife's best friend has lived in Oz for 25 years, she says it's like living in a dictatorship.

Why?

Mandatory vaccination for her.

Is that because she's in an industry where it's mandated, e.g (WA)

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/A_E/Coronavirus/COVID19-vaccination-program/Mandatory-COVID19-vaccination

Yes

If that's a reply to me, then it's not a dictatorship. She can choose to leave her job if she refuses to be vaccinated. Same as care-workers and medics here.

She's vaccinated just believes that people should have a choice.

For example, pro athletes in Victoria are mandated to be vaccinated.

See above re the minefield of actual forced vaccinations. But nudging a population towards a goal of maximising uptake can get much closer to that goal by making it harder and harder to function normally if you refuse a vaccine that's the only realistic way of reducing other restrictions on the whole population.

Vaccine mandates for particular sections of the workforce is nowhere near the dictatorship end of the spectrum, and they've been around for years for certain professions.

briantrumpet

joe2019 said:

rjsterry said:

Knowing someone who has lived in an actual dictatorship (Belarus) I suspect that Australia is not actually like a dictatorship. You won't get bundled into a van, beaten and disappeared just for saying you don't think much of Scott Morrison.

I guess it was a figure of speech.

Maybe use the right words then?

joe2019

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

rjsterry said:

Knowing someone who has lived in an actual dictatorship (Belarus) I suspect that Australia is not actually like a dictatorship. You won't get bundled into a van, beaten and disappeared just for saying you don't think much of Scott Morrison.

I guess it was a figure of speech.

Maybe use the right words then?

Who the F%%K do you think you are?

Pross

It's a bit like when people moan on social media that they don't have a voice.

briantrumpet

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

rjsterry said:

Knowing someone who has lived in an actual dictatorship (Belarus) I suspect that Australia is not actually like a dictatorship. You won't get bundled into a van, beaten and disappeared just for saying you don't think much of Scott Morrison.

I guess it was a figure of speech.

Maybe use the right words then?

Who the F%%K do you think you are?

Someone who thinks 'dictatorship' has a fairly specific meaning.

joe2019

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

rjsterry said:

Knowing someone who has lived in an actual dictatorship (Belarus) I suspect that Australia is not actually like a dictatorship. You won't get bundled into a van, beaten and disappeared just for saying you don't think much of Scott Morrison.

I guess it was a figure of speech.

Maybe use the right words then?

Who the F%%K do you think you are?

Someone who thinks 'dictatorship' has a fairly specific meaning.

I'll let my wife's friend know.

focuszing723

I'm sure many people who don't live in affluent countries are thinking, 'I should be so lucky'.

joe2019

focuszing723 said:

I'm sure many people who don't live in affluent countries are thinking, 'I should be so lucky'.

Everything is relative.

pangolin

joe2019 said:

focuszing723 said:

I'm sure many people who don't live in affluent countries are thinking, 'I should be so lucky'.

Everything is relative.

"This county is relatively dictatorshipy" doesn't quite have the same ring to it though.

focuszing723

joe2019 said:

focuszing723 said:

I'm sure many people who don't live in affluent countries are thinking, 'I should be so lucky'.

Everything is relative.

Spinning around the moral compass doesn't change the facts. A vulnerable person is much better off in a country akin to Australia.

briantrumpet

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

briantrumpet said:

joe2019 said:

rjsterry said:

Knowing someone who has lived in an actual dictatorship (Belarus) I suspect that Australia is not actually like a dictatorship. You won't get bundled into a van, beaten and disappeared just for saying you don't think much of Scott Morrison.

I guess it was a figure of speech.

Maybe use the right words then?

Who the F%%K do you think you are?

Someone who thinks 'dictatorship' has a fairly specific meaning.

I'll let my wife's friend know.

When you're in touch, you might like to send them definition from the Oxford English Dictionary;

A system of government by the absolute rule of a single individual; a state ruled by a dictator.

Pross

It is a penal colony after all, you shouldn't expect too much freedom there.