The big Coronavirus thread

DeVlaeminck

focuszing723 said:

I was wondering if certain letters should be banned in public places from speech? F & P seem particularly dangerous (lots of projected airflow) when I recite the alphabet with my hand close to my face.

Maybe if we learn to speak on the in-breath - I just tried and it's possible if not exactly natural.

First.Aspect

DeVlaeminck said:

focuszing723 said:

I was wondering if certain letters should be banned in public places from speech? F & P seem particularly dangerous (lots of projected airflow) when I recite the alphabet with my hand close to my face.

Maybe if we learn to speak on the in-breath - I just tried and it's possible if not exactly natural.

How about putting a cloth over your face only when breathing out? Is that a suitable compromise?

focuszing723

DeVlaeminck said:

focuszing723 said:

I was wondering if certain letters should be banned in public places from speech? F & P seem particularly dangerous (lots of projected airflow) when I recite the alphabet with my hand close to my face.

Maybe if we learn to speak on the in-breath - I just tried and it's possible if not exactly natural.

I think this would be a good idea to try and learn, especially at all the up and coming Christmas arties.

skyblueamateur

DeVlaeminck said:

focuszing723 said:

I was wondering if certain letters should be banned in public places from speech? F & P seem particularly dangerous (lots of projected airflow) when I recite the alphabet with my hand close to my face.

Maybe if we learn to speak on the in-breath - I just tried and it's possible if not exactly natural.

Where my family are from in the West of Ireland they have a habit of saying 'yeah' on the in breath. Fairly unique.

Everyone should be wearing FFP2/N95 face masks if bothering to wear them

focuszing723

First.Aspect said:

Posh accents need to be encouraged. Posh people don't open or move their mouths much when they speak. It is definitely safer.

Yep, it's definitely safer to be posh.

First.Aspect

focuszing723 said:

First.Aspect said:

Posh accents need to be encouraged. Posh people don't open or move their mouths much when they speak. It is definitely safer.

Yep, it's definitely safer to be posh.

The data supports this.

joe2019

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

pblakeney

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

joe2019

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

The patient would be unlucky to get blood splash from their surgeon.

pblakeney

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

The patient would be unlucky to get blood splash from their surgeon.

Covid is not spread by blood transmission. AFAIK.

joe2019

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

The patient would be unlucky to get blood splash from their surgeon.

Covid is not spread by blood transmission. AFAIK.

The question was whether I'd have an op without the surgeon wearing a mask.

Keep up.

pblakeney

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

The patient would be unlucky to get blood splash from their surgeon.

Covid is not spread by blood transmission. AFAIK.

The question was whether I'd have an op without the surgeon wearing a mask.

Keep up.

This is a thread about Covid.
Good story though.

joe2019

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

The patient would be unlucky to get blood splash from their surgeon.

Covid is not spread by blood transmission. AFAIK.

The question was whether I'd have an op without the surgeon wearing a mask.

Keep up.

This is a thread about Covid.
Good story though.

I just answered a question and got called 'very stupid'.

Have a nice day.

First.Aspect

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

The patient would be unlucky to get blood splash from their surgeon.

Covid is not spread by blood transmission. AFAIK.

The question was whether I'd have an op without the surgeon wearing a mask.

Keep up.

This is a thread about Covid.
Good story though.

I just answered a question and got called 'very stupid'.

Have a nice day.

My father is a surgeon.... mmm. What are the odds.

In any case, the current BMA advice seems to contradict him. There are some studies that say the data is inconclusive, but even those aren't the same as saying that masks are not necessary during surgery.

And yet how would you conclusively prove this? By conducting surgeries without, and see how may hospital acquired infections there were? Not ethical. How about swabbing the inside of face masks. Has been done, and it is well known that saliva can carry bacteria that can be perfectly benign in your mouth, but not fantastically good in a wound.

So it seems to me that the arguments against are founded on a misplaced desire to have some "proof" that cannot be obtained, against fairly persuasive indirect evidence.

So somewhat like arguing that a parachute hasn't been shown to be effective due to a lack of double blind studies.

joe2019

I agree, not ethical in today's world, but a long while ago it has been done.

"No masks were worn in one operating theatre for 6 months. There was no increase in the incidence of wound infection."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/

There was an appreciable decrease in wound infection during this study.

First.Aspect

joe2019 said:

I agree, not ethical in today's world, but a long while ago it has been done.

"No masks were worn in one operating theatre for 6 months. There was no increase in the incidence of wound infection."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/

There was an appreciable decrease in wound infection during this study.

As a scientist that article offends me. You notice the part where the author acknowledges that the data, such as they are, are rendered effectively useless by not speaking as much during operations where they all knew they weren't wearing masks?

Or the part where the author cites another study showing that when wearing a mask, infections were shown to vary depending on how they were worn and facial movement? The only distinction there is the inference that the operating room environment is somehow different, as regards aerosols.

Seriously, there are some quacks out there.

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

Many doctors, surgeons and nurses smoke, despite the graphic evidence of what it can do to you being just down the corridor on the cardio-pulmonary ward.

Medical training does not prevent self deception.

focuszing723

Yep, it's a uckin athetic eice of research.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

Many doctors, surgeons and nurses smoke, despite the graphic evidence of what it can do to you being just down the corridor on the cardio-pulmonary ward.

Medical training does not prevent self deception.

A completely irrelevant addition to my point.
Thank you for your time.

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

joe2019 said:

First.Aspect said:

joe2019 said:

Pross said:

If they are not effective would you be happy for your dentist not to wear them or for medical staff not to wear one when operating on you?

Yes.

I think you must be very stupid then, because you can't be sufficiently ill informed to explain this answer in any other way.

My father was a surgeon and he said this.

The mask is splash protection, to stop transmission of infections from the patient.

Many surgeons believe that masks make no difference with regards to infection rates to the patient.

You, or your Dad, is going to have to explain transmission only being one way traffic.

Many doctors, surgeons and nurses smoke, despite the graphic evidence of what it can do to you being just down the corridor on the cardio-pulmonary ward.

Medical training does not prevent self deception.

A completely irrelevant addition to my point.
Thank you for your time.

Sorry, was meant as a response to Mr2019 but clicked the wrong quote button.

mrb123

focuszing723 said:

Yep, it's a uckin athetic eice of research.

You mean iece?

First.Aspect

mrb123 said:

focuszing723 said:

Yep, it's a uckin athetic eice of research.

You mean iece?

mrb123 said:

focuszing723 said:

Yep, it's a uckin athetic eice of research.

You mean iece?

It's not an issing cometition.

focuszing723

mrb123 said:

focuszing723 said:

Yep, it's a uckin athetic eice of research.

You mean iece?

edant!

TheBigBean

Interestingly a friend is moving from Australia to Europe due to the loss of freedom. Whilst, at the same time, I know several people going in the opposite direction.

rjsterry

Wife has some cousins in Australia and they have not been impressed with their government's response. On the other hand Von der Leyen is discussing mandatory vaccination in EU states.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Wife has some cousins in Australia and they have not been impressed with their government's response. On the other hand Von der Leyen is discussing mandatory vaccination in EU states.

Think it is considerable scope creep for her job.

TheBigBean

Today I learnt that the way the UK measures educational and health output for GDP is different to other countries. As a result, school closures and missed appointments affect the UK's reported GDP much more.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Wife has some cousins in Australia and they have not been impressed with their government's response. On the other hand Von der Leyen is discussing mandatory vaccination in EU states.

Think it is considerable scope creep for her job.

I would agree.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Wife has some cousins in Australia and they have not been impressed with their government's response. On the other hand Von der Leyen is discussing mandatory vaccination in EU states.

Think it is considerable scope creep for her job.

I would agree.

The devil would be in the detail of what she actually said... if she thinks it's in her purview (cue Malcolm Tucker quotation), then yes. Though I'd not be totally surprised if there's some lazy reporting going on.

Pross

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Wife has some cousins in Australia and they have not been impressed with their government's response. On the other hand Von der Leyen is discussing mandatory vaccination in EU states.

Think it is considerable scope creep for her job.

I would agree.

The devil would be in the detail of what she actually said... if she thinks it's in her purview (cue Malcolm Tucker quotation), then yes. Though I'd not be totally surprised if there's some lazy reporting going on.

She seems quite prone to expanding her job remit.