The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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kingstongraham said:briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
Fewer deaths per infection.ddraver said:kingstongraham said:
Germany, Austria.ddraver said:
Higher than who, sorry?kingstongraham said:I think it's uncontroversial to say that our higher vaccine uptake has made a massive difference.
So...what has helped, sorry? Helped in having more hospitalisations and more infections? Until...yesterdaybriantrumpet said:
Actually, that would be a vaguely interesting metric to see in graph form.
Obviously also massive pinch of salt needed regarding number of tests and how the positive test number relates to actual infections.
Thanks - hadn't found that one. Yes, lots of caveats, but interesting nonetheless.
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I disagree. I don't think that everything you do is something that you have been given permission by the government to do.Ben6899 said:DeVlaeminck said:
It does depend what you consider to be privileges. Working in medicine, visiting Sainsbury's, using public transport, visiting a friend's house.Pross said:
This. I'm not supportive of compulsory vaccination (and don't think it's viable anyway - I guess we'll see with Austria). However, if you choose it's not for you then you have to accept you miss out on some of the privileges.kingstongraham said:
There is a middle ground - it's that without getting the vaccine there are things that you can't do because you pose an increased risk to public health. How far that goes is a political choice, depending on the circumstances. I don't think it is proportionate currently to stop people doing everything, but it does make sense to stop them doing jobs where they are breathing over vulnerable people.DeVlaeminck said:There is a middle ground with scepticism - certainly for kids it's questionable whether the vaccine is in their individual interests.
I think some of you are too harsh on vaccine refusers - of which I am not one - it's individual choice as any medical treatment should be. Surely it is quite a step for the state to pretty much insist you are injected with a series of vaccines which are fairly new and which do have some serious side affects in admittedly rare cases.
There was a guy on the radio saying he had had his first jab - developed a headache which had never totally gone so he's decided against having his second or any boosters - he's being told by the doctors it's unrelated to the vaccine but is he really acting unreasonably?
If every piece of public health guidance became law, most pubs would go out of business.
They're all privileges. Always have been.0 -
Wetherspoons used to have a third of each pub as non-smoking. It was quite nice.surrey_commuter said:
No, but a quick Google surprised me that Wetherspoons did.TheBigBean said:
Do you know how many pubs had banned smoking before the smoking ban?surrey_commuter said:
I am surprised businesses don't insist on vaccine passports and see if it helps tradeddraver said:
Higher than who, sorry?kingstongraham said:I think it's uncontroversial to say that our higher vaccine uptake has made a massive difference.
Well that will be the decision this time round. Are we prepared to, for example, sit next to someone at work who is positive for COVID regardless of how symptomatic they are (assuming we're both double/triple jabbed), as we are used to doing with colds for example.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:
I accept your point but it does depend on what you're looking for. As GB and US found out in Spring, a 'Pingdemic' can be just as bad economically as a pandemic. Though thankfully, with far fewer deaths*.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
The infections graphs really need to be put alongside deaths and hospital admissions.
(*yes I know Piers/Neil/Hippie living in a field etc...)
Yes, but at that time we'd only just got started on first vaccinations, and the ultra caution was justified. I think caution is still justified, but the degree of caution should increasingly reflect the hospitalisation/death rate, IMHO, with my expertise in music giving me the relevant authority to make such pronouncements.
Same goes for be in a pub with, stand behind in supermarket queue etc...
If you have the numbers broken down between pubs/restaurants and fags/pipes/cigars that would be good
From memory, 36 pubs in the whole of the UK were completely non-smoking. I can remember a few City pubs where smoking became a bit anti-social, but the free market still mostly failed to ban it.0 -
kingstongraham said:
I disagree. I don't think that everything you do is something that you have been given permission by the government to do.Ben6899 said:DeVlaeminck said:
It does depend what you consider to be privileges. Working in medicine, visiting Sainsbury's, using public transport, visiting a friend's house.Pross said:
This. I'm not supportive of compulsory vaccination (and don't think it's viable anyway - I guess we'll see with Austria). However, if you choose it's not for you then you have to accept you miss out on some of the privileges.kingstongraham said:
There is a middle ground - it's that without getting the vaccine there are things that you can't do because you pose an increased risk to public health. How far that goes is a political choice, depending on the circumstances. I don't think it is proportionate currently to stop people doing everything, but it does make sense to stop them doing jobs where they are breathing over vulnerable people.DeVlaeminck said:There is a middle ground with scepticism - certainly for kids it's questionable whether the vaccine is in their individual interests.
I think some of you are too harsh on vaccine refusers - of which I am not one - it's individual choice as any medical treatment should be. Surely it is quite a step for the state to pretty much insist you are injected with a series of vaccines which are fairly new and which do have some serious side affects in admittedly rare cases.
There was a guy on the radio saying he had had his first jab - developed a headache which had never totally gone so he's decided against having his second or any boosters - he's being told by the doctors it's unrelated to the vaccine but is he really acting unreasonably?
If every piece of public health guidance became law, most pubs would go out of business.
They're all privileges. Always have been.
Not permission by the government, but I can't work in medicine unless I prove myself to be capable and then someone is charitable to give me a go, after my interview. Sainsbury's has every right to refuse me entry to a store (private property), same with Public Transport (I have to adhere to the terms of carriage) and if a mate doesn't want me round their house, then that's the matter (and the front door) closed.
They are all privileges.Ben
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I consider it a privilege for them to have me.Ben6899 said:kingstongraham said:
I disagree. I don't think that everything you do is something that you have been given permission by the government to do.Ben6899 said:DeVlaeminck said:
It does depend what you consider to be privileges. Working in medicine, visiting Sainsbury's, using public transport, visiting a friend's house.Pross said:
This. I'm not supportive of compulsory vaccination (and don't think it's viable anyway - I guess we'll see with Austria). However, if you choose it's not for you then you have to accept you miss out on some of the privileges.kingstongraham said:
There is a middle ground - it's that without getting the vaccine there are things that you can't do because you pose an increased risk to public health. How far that goes is a political choice, depending on the circumstances. I don't think it is proportionate currently to stop people doing everything, but it does make sense to stop them doing jobs where they are breathing over vulnerable people.DeVlaeminck said:There is a middle ground with scepticism - certainly for kids it's questionable whether the vaccine is in their individual interests.
I think some of you are too harsh on vaccine refusers - of which I am not one - it's individual choice as any medical treatment should be. Surely it is quite a step for the state to pretty much insist you are injected with a series of vaccines which are fairly new and which do have some serious side affects in admittedly rare cases.
There was a guy on the radio saying he had had his first jab - developed a headache which had never totally gone so he's decided against having his second or any boosters - he's being told by the doctors it's unrelated to the vaccine but is he really acting unreasonably?
If every piece of public health guidance became law, most pubs would go out of business.
They're all privileges. Always have been.
Not permission by the government, but I can't work in medicine unless I prove myself to be capable and then someone is charitable to give me a go, after my interview. Sainsbury's has every right to refuse me entry to a store (private property), same with Public Transport (I have to adhere to the terms of carriage) and if a mate doesn't want me round their house, then that's the matter (and the front door) closed.
They are all privileges.1 -
So many caveats its probably utterly worthless.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
Fewer deaths per infection.ddraver said:kingstongraham said:
Germany, Austria.ddraver said:
Higher than who, sorry?kingstongraham said:I think it's uncontroversial to say that our higher vaccine uptake has made a massive difference.
So...what has helped, sorry? Helped in having more hospitalisations and more infections? Until...yesterdaybriantrumpet said:
Actually, that would be a vaguely interesting metric to see in graph form.
Obviously also massive pinch of salt needed regarding number of tests and how the positive test number relates to actual infections.
Thanks - hadn't found that one. Yes, lots of caveats, but interesting nonetheless.
The Uk really has gone banzai on testing ie. 350 million tests compared to Germany @ 83 million.
We dont really know how accurate our own case numbers are.0 -
Hospitalisation rates are really what matters. Pre vaccine the link between infection rates and hospitalisations was fairly mechanistic. It's not anymore, so it's worth taking into account.
FWIW of the people i know in the UK who got corona, only 2 of them did it via PCR tests and so were registered as positives. The rest did it via lateral flows and didn't report them.0 -
The usual caveats for source and hope. Sounds positive though with the confirmation from Israel.0 -
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rick_chasey said:
So when does the booster jab switch to 3 months? Just tried to book and no luck.
Under-40s were warned they should not try to book in their booster immediately, because in the short term the focus will remain on reaching as many people in older groups as possible. But the health service will come forward as soon as Tuesday to lay out the details of when younger groups may be able to book, and how the current pace of the rollout can be sped up in order to meet demand. A Whitehall official said: “We are going to boost the boosters.”0 -
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rick_chasey said:
Gotcha. That’s not what Sajid’s bit in parliament sounded like
Fings is moving fast. Will cut them some slack for now.0 -
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Having moved to Wales I’ve no idea if I’ll get invited for the booster. I’m already heading for 7 months since my 2nd jab. Might try and sneak in an English vac centre.0
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I was checking eligibility last night, I don't think they've updated yet but it was showing anyone over 40 as being eligible. There's no booking system but they write to you and for the first jabs they were pretty good, I was ahead of most on here in my age group.mully79 said:Having moved to Wales I’ve no idea if I’ll get invited for the booster. I’m already heading for 7 months since my 2nd jab. Might try and sneak in an English vac centre.
I'm expecting a letter very soon as my 6 months is in a couple of weeks. It may be that you haven't got onto their system yet though, I think my daughter's boyfriend had a similar issue with the first jabs so may be worth contacting them to explain.0 -
Have you noticed that more than one minister has urged us not to panic about the new variant? This makes me think the government wants us to panic, because a] telling people not to is far and away the best way of ensuring they do, and b] otherwise it wouldn't have been named Omicron, which sounds sinister and apocalyptic, it would have been called "fluffy".0
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Van Tam was very clear yesterday, saying " I do not want people to panic at this stage. "oblongomaculatus said:Have you noticed that more than one minister has urged us not to panic about the new variant? This makes me think the government wants us to panic, because a] telling people not to is far and away the best way of ensuring they do, and b] otherwise it wouldn't have been named Omicron, which sounds sinister and apocalyptic, it would have been called "fluffy".
He'll let us know when to start.0 -
It was noticeable from the BBC live reporting from a station in Liverpool this morning that the compulsory mask wearing message is either being ignored or hasn't got through to people. Of the people walking past in the background I would say around 70-80% weren't wearing masks. Even here where masks have been compulsory throughout I was in my local shop yesterday, which has generally been very good, and all 4 people in front of me in the queue weren't wearing masks (to be completely judgemental they all looked like the sort of people you would expect to refuse to wear one and probably aren't vaccinated either).
I'm not massively convinced of their effectiveness still and can't say I enjoy wearing one but I really can't get my head around why so many people won't put up with what feels like a very minor inconvenience.0 -
Have noticed plenty of people mask up once they’re in the train.Pross said:It was noticeable from the BBC live reporting from a station in Liverpool this morning that the compulsory mask wearing message is either being ignored or hasn't got through to people. Of the people walking past in the background I would say around 70-80% weren't wearing masks. Even here where masks have been compulosry throughout I was in my local shop yesterday, which has generally been very good, and all 4 people in front of me in the queue weren't wearing masks (to be completely judgemental they all looked like the sort of people you would expect to refuse to wear one and probably aren't vaccinated either).
I'm not massively convinced of their effectiveness still and can't say I enjoy wearing one but I really can't get my head around why so many people won't put up with what feels like a very minor inconvenience.0 -
Personally, it feels as if I'm being lightly suffocated whenever I wear one. It's bearable for short periods, , but very unpleasant.Pross said:I
I'm not massively convinced of their effectiveness still and can't say I enjoy wearing one but I really can't get my head around why so many people won't put up with what feels like a very minor inconvenience.
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That's what I thought. Come on man, give us a timetable of panic. We're clearly at stage 1, "vague unease", but we need to know how we can move though the other stages, until we're able to deploy the full "Corporal Jones" response.kingstongraham said:
Van Tam was very clear yesterday, saying " I do not want people to panic at this stage. "oblongomaculatus said:Have you noticed that more than one minister has urged us not to panic about the new variant? This makes me think the government wants us to panic, because a] telling people not to is far and away the best way of ensuring they do, and b] otherwise it wouldn't have been named Omicron, which sounds sinister and apocalyptic, it would have been called "fluffy".
He'll let us know when to start.
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Just spent the last 5 days trying to get a booster booking for Mrs DHL; Time-outs, timeslots without times, queues, "looks like something has gone wrong", no dates etc. finally got a slot after spending two hours resubmitting info on the form until a vac centre appeared with actual times, well only one time-slot.0
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This does not surprise me as 6 minths ago we were full chat on jabs and we can not possibly have the same capacity yet more people are eligible.darkhairedlord said:Just spent the last 5 days trying to get a booster booking for Mrs DHL; Time-outs, timeslots without times, queues, "looks like something has gone wrong", no dates etc. finally got a slot after spending two hours resubmitting info on the form until a vac centre appeared with actual times, well only one time-slot.
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I got my second on 23rd June - if I wanted to book for 6 months now I could have almost any time from 23rd December onwards.
Obviously I'm waiting till the system changes and hoping to be done sooner.0 -
My problem with masks is my glasses fog up - my eyesight is not so bad so I just take them off but I feel a bit sorry for those who really can't see without their specs.
I also see (as an anti vaxxer mate has copied it to his Facebook) there is an article in the telegraph by a former Sage advisor questioning the effectiveness of masks. If we are making masks a major part of our strategy maybe we should look at what type of masks offer the best protection whilst still remaining practical. I tend to wear a mix of cloth or the blue ones you get in most shops - if one is definitely better than the other I'd choose that as I'm having to wear one anyway it may as well do the job.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I got my invite for a booster today. However, I'm going to wait for a couple of months to get it and use up my post infection immunity first.0
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Yeah, I can see glasses being an issue for people as I got the same on the rare occasions I wore one with sunglasses. We also had that as a problem for people with glasses in choir rehearsals but have since obtained a load of masks designed for singing that overcame the problem (they weren't cheap though at around £18 each). They are designed to allow more sound but apparently they don't cause glasses to fog up or at least not as much. I think there are other things such as putting a bit of washing up liquid on glasses or spraying with a specific anti-fog spray that help as well.DeVlaeminck said:My problem with masks is my glasses fog up - my eyesight is not so bad so I just take them off but I feel a bit sorry for those who really can't see without their specs.
I also see (as an anti vaxxer mate has copied it to his Facebook) there is an article in the telegraph by a former Sage advisor questioning the effectiveness of masks. If we are making masks a major part of our strategy maybe we should look at what type of masks offer the best protection whilst still remaining practical. I tend to wear a mix of cloth or the blue ones you get in most shops - if one is definitely better than the other I'd choose that as I'm having to wear one anyway it may as well do the job.0 -
Funny how my reactions changed as I was reading that, first thought was 'good' followed by 'Why would you do that?' immediately followed by 'oh, I see'longy said:I got my invite for a booster today. However, I'm going to wait for a couple of months to get it and use up my post infection immunity first.
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The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Will be all of them I'm afraid.
In Scotland still only +6m. Latest news is that they are thinking about cutting that to 5.
No rush, chaps. It isn't like Scotland is the epicentre of Omicron in the UK is it?0
