The big Coronavirus thread

rick_chasey

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

kingstongraham

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

The trick is to keep just the right side of the line between "it's not real" and "it's maybe not going to have the impact threatened". Either way you get to complain about being told what you should do, but one is acceptable. It's the same media engagement strategy as a year ago when she was saying that covid didn't look like it was going to kill anyone over the winter.

rick_chasey

kingstongraham said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

The trick is to keep just the right side of the line between "it's not real" and "it's maybe not going to have the impact threatened". Either way you get to complain about being told what you should do, but one is acceptable. It's the same media engagement strategy as a year ago when she was saying that covid didn't look like it was going to kill anyone over the winter.

Yes, there's a lot of "the debate has taken leave of reality" nonsense, as if the existence of climate change as people commonly understand it is up for debate.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

Agreed. Greenpeace are currently campaigning against plastic wrapping of food. Wrapping which dramatically reduces food waste, and is a major source of emissions. Someone pointed out the simplistic nature of this campaign and was met with 'oh, so you want to suffocate dolphins, do you?' and 'why can't we reduce food waste by all food being sourced locally? Then we wouldn't need to extend its shelf life.'
If even Greenpeace are getting sidetracked with misleading and trivial stuff like shrink wrapping broccoli then it's no wonder some dismiss the overall movement.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

I don’t understand what deniers think the motive is to push the climate change agenda

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

I don’t understand what deniers think the motive is to push the climate change agenda

It will cost them. They want to avoid that. Also conspiracy theories are seductive in themselves. There's a little thrill in thinking you know something that 'they' don't want you to know.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

I don’t understand what deniers think the motive is to push the climate change agenda

For some it is stopping them driving cars, using cheap energy etc.

My colleague was a bright guy who had done a lot of research. He just felt it was factually incorrect political lobbying. This was a number of years ago.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

I don’t understand what deniers think the motive is to push the climate change agenda

For some it is stopping them driving cars, using cheap energy etc.

My colleague was a bright guy who had done a lot of research. He just felt it was factually incorrect political lobbying. This was a number of years ago.

But why would anyone want to stop you having cheap energy? for example.

I don't get why anyone would want to impose restrictions just for the fun of it.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

I don’t understand what deniers think the motive is to push the climate change agenda

For some it is stopping them driving cars, using cheap energy etc.

My colleague was a bright guy who had done a lot of research. He just felt it was factually incorrect political lobbying. This was a number of years ago.

The question was the reverse - what do deniers think the climate change believers are gaining from it?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

I don’t understand what deniers think the motive is to push the climate change agenda

For some it is stopping them driving cars, using cheap energy etc.

My colleague was a bright guy who had done a lot of research. He just felt it was factually incorrect political lobbying. This was a number of years ago.

But why would anyone want to stop you having cheap energy? for example.

I don't get why anyone would want to impose restrictions just for the fun of it.

The denier is not necessarily questioning the motives of the believer, but thinks they are wrong, and has no interest in suffering the consequences of the misplaced beliefs. So, in your example, they don't think someone is deliberating trying to make them pay more for something, they think they are mistakenly trying to do so.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

I used to work with one. To be fair, there was a lot of nonsense published supporting climate change which gave deniers plenty of material to work with.

I don’t understand what deniers think the motive is to push the climate change agenda

For some it is stopping them driving cars, using cheap energy etc.

My colleague was a bright guy who had done a lot of research. He just felt it was factually incorrect political lobbying. This was a number of years ago.

But why would anyone want to stop you having cheap energy? for example.

I don't get why anyone would want to impose restrictions just for the fun of it.

The denier is not necessarily questioning the motives of the believer, but thinks they are wrong, and has no interest in suffering the consequences of the misplaced beliefs. So, in your example, they don't think someone is deliberating trying to make them pay more for something, they think they are mistakenly trying to do so.

I sort of feel they don't really understand risk if that's the logic.

Pross

kingstongraham said:

rick_chasey said:

You have to be quite knee deep in conspiratorial thinking to be climate change denier.

The trick is to keep just the right side of the line between "it's not real" and "it's maybe not going to have the impact threatened". Either way you get to complain about being told what you should do, but one is acceptable. It's the same media engagement strategy as a year ago when she was saying that covid didn't look like it was going to kill anyone over the winter.

The main trick is to to argue it is happening but is a natural process and not man-made so trying to stop it happening is pointless.

kingstonian

Munsford0 said:

I work in a secondary school. First day back yesterday, all year 7-11 groups were meant to be jabbed. Depressing to see that only a third of kids were leaving class for vaccinations. Many of the remainder said they weren't getting jabbed and neither were their parents, and trotting out all manner of scare stories / conspiracy theories. I'm worried if the virus carries on infecting / reinfecting these uninoculated groups that we'll eventually end up with a variant that's less well controlled by current vaccines and we'll be starting all over again.

The school clearly had a lot of unused vaccine because later in the day they were offering jabs to staff eligible for a first / second / booster. Annoyingly just a bit too soon for my booster

That’s interesting. My kids’ school is due to jab the 7-11 year groups at the end of next week and already about 25% of the children have been vaccinated during half term (including both my sons). More of their friends are booking their jabs for later this week or at the weekend and not waiting for the school jabbing event. Neither of my sons are aware of anyone in their classes that aren’t going to take the jab.

briantrumpet

kingstonian said:

Munsford0 said:

I work in a secondary school. First day back yesterday, all year 7-11 groups were meant to be jabbed. Depressing to see that only a third of kids were leaving class for vaccinations. Many of the remainder said they weren't getting jabbed and neither were their parents, and trotting out all manner of scare stories / conspiracy theories. I'm worried if the virus carries on infecting / reinfecting these uninoculated groups that we'll eventually end up with a variant that's less well controlled by current vaccines and we'll be starting all over again.

The school clearly had a lot of unused vaccine because later in the day they were offering jabs to staff eligible for a first / second / booster. Annoyingly just a bit too soon for my booster

That’s interesting. My kids’ school is due to jab the 7-11 year groups at the end of next week and already about 25% of the children have been vaccinated during half term (including both my sons). More of their friends are booking their jabs for later this week or at the weekend and not waiting for the school jabbing event. Neither of my sons are aware of anyone in their classes that aren’t going to take the jab.

I suspect that there are several factors at play, including the messaging going out from the head/SMT (on the general science, and the school's seriousness about control), and the social profile of the school. If the US is anything to go by, there will be more scepticism from, shall we say, certain demographics.

Ben6899

kingstonian said:

Munsford0 said:

I work in a secondary school. First day back yesterday, all year 7-11 groups were meant to be jabbed. Depressing to see that only a third of kids were leaving class for vaccinations. Many of the remainder said they weren't getting jabbed and neither were their parents, and trotting out all manner of scare stories / conspiracy theories. I'm worried if the virus carries on infecting / reinfecting these uninoculated groups that we'll eventually end up with a variant that's less well controlled by current vaccines and we'll be starting all over again.

The school clearly had a lot of unused vaccine because later in the day they were offering jabs to staff eligible for a first / second / booster. Annoyingly just a bit too soon for my booster

That’s interesting. My kids’ school is due to jab the 7-11 year groups at the end of next week and already about 25% of the children have been vaccinated during half term (including both my sons). More of their friends are booking their jabs for later this week or at the weekend and not waiting for the school jabbing event. Neither of my sons are aware of anyone in their classes that aren’t going to take the jab.

This kind of thing is going to be regional. I'll leave the lines here for everyone to read between.

rjsterry

Ben6899 said:

kingstonian said:

Munsford0 said:

I work in a secondary school. First day back yesterday, all year 7-11 groups were meant to be jabbed. Depressing to see that only a third of kids were leaving class for vaccinations. Many of the remainder said they weren't getting jabbed and neither were their parents, and trotting out all manner of scare stories / conspiracy theories. I'm worried if the virus carries on infecting / reinfecting these uninoculated groups that we'll eventually end up with a variant that's less well controlled by current vaccines and we'll be starting all over again.

The school clearly had a lot of unused vaccine because later in the day they were offering jabs to staff eligible for a first / second / booster. Annoyingly just a bit too soon for my booster

That’s interesting. My kids’ school is due to jab the 7-11 year groups at the end of next week and already about 25% of the children have been vaccinated during half term (including both my sons). More of their friends are booking their jabs for later this week or at the weekend and not waiting for the school jabbing event. Neither of my sons are aware of anyone in their classes that aren’t going to take the jab.

This kind of thing is going to be regional. I'll leave the lines here for everyone to read between.

Similar low take up in my bit of South London.

rjsterry

I see the fraternal conviviality has led to an outbreak at Westminster with MPs told to wear masks and staff told to WFH. Who'd have guessed such a thing would happen?

briantrumpet

Floundering. Didn't even try jokes about farting cows, or a pointless Latin phrase. This is our Prime Minister, apparently.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1455607121970597891

orraloon

Yebbut. 80 seat majority innit. No doubt he ran off to his big red bus asap. Oh wait, make that private jet to exit COP26.

rick_chasey

He’s a total useless pr!ck and up there with the worst leaders the Uk has ever had, including the inbred lot, but you can’t be seriously criticising the PM for using a private jet

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/allthecitizens/status/1455612648259735559?s=21

DeVlaeminck

I'd be interested to know why Boris wasn't wearing a mask when someone must have suggested sitting next to DavidA without one might attract comment.

Even if Boris doesn't care if Attenborough lives or dies or doesn't believe he himself is a risk (presumably he gets regular tests) you'd think he would avoid the negative publicity. Unless he thinks not wearing a mask plays well with more people than who object to it.

briantrumpet

DeVlaeminck said:

I'd be interested to know why Boris wasn't wearing a mask when someone must have suggested sitting next to DavidA without one might attract comment.

Even if Boris doesn't care if Attenborough lives or dies or doesn't believe he himself is a risk (presumably he gets regular tests) you'd think he would avoid the negative publicity. Unless he thinks not wearing a mask plays well with more people than who object to it.

Johnson, 'think'? That implies he has rational judgement and plans stuff. He just reacts to whatever situation he's blundered into.

kingstongraham

I assume from this answer that it wasn't indoors and he was a long distance in the hall from the person sat next to him, and he spends most days with David Attenborough.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1455607121970597891?t=NpFN2VEcvuBIUVWY9S9baw&s=19

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

I assume from this answer that it wasn't indoors and he was a long distance in the hall from the person sat next to him, and he spends most days with David Attenborough.

Surely the day is coming when everyone will ignore what he says as he simply waffles nonsense. I get concerned when my Dad waffles and he has zero responsibility.

kingstongraham

Should have just said he finds it difficult to get off to sleep properly while wearing a face covering.

rjsterry

The flat out disputing of reality on our sky high infections was probably more of an issue than not wearing a mask when he should have done.

Also Farrar has quit SAGE, which suggests they are being ignored.

DeVlaeminck

briantrumpet said:

DeVlaeminck said:

I'd be interested to know why Boris wasn't wearing a mask when someone must have suggested sitting next to DavidA without one might attract comment.

Even if Boris doesn't care if Attenborough lives or dies or doesn't believe he himself is a risk (presumably he gets regular tests) you'd think he would avoid the negative publicity. Unless he thinks not wearing a mask plays well with more people than who object to it.

Johnson, 'think'? That implies he has rational judgement and plans stuff. He just reacts to whatever situation he's blundered into.

Johnson ignores his advisors and effortlessly captures the zeitgeist without thinking ?

That's the public persona but it'd be interesting to know if that's the reality. At some point at the very least someone must have sat down and said it shouldn't work but it seems to so keep doing it. Wearing a mask sat next to David Attenborough can't be an oversight.

briantrumpet

DeVlaeminck said:

Johnson ignores his advisors and effortlessly captures the zeitgeist without thinking ?

He's honed this lazy, buffoonish, careless character over many years, with a few learned-sounding quotations to make himself (and persuade himself) he's clever, and he's just lazily acting it out now. The details don't matter. That he happens to be a good fit for these fractured times, and was a useful vehicle to get a hard Brexit past the electorate and parliament is just our bad luck.