The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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Waiting to see today's exciting - but delayed - update. My area saw a 256% increase in the figures released yesterday. Obviously that's meant everyone local seeing sense today and wearing masks in crowded shops etc. because the public can be trusted to Do The Right Thing and take personal responsibility.0
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I thought you would be pleased to hear that there is a sign in Waterloo station detailing the things that are being done to keep passengers safe. Number one is ventilation.briantrumpet said:Waiting to see today's exciting - but delayed - update. My area saw a 256% increase in the figures released yesterday. Obviously that's meant everyone local seeing sense today and wearing masks in crowded shops etc. because the public can be trusted to Do The Right Thing and take personal responsibility.
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Hurrah.TheBigBean said:
I thought you would be pleased to here that there is a sign in Waterloo station detailing the things that are being done to keep passengers safe. Number one is ventilation.briantrumpet said:Waiting to see today's exciting - but delayed - update. My area saw a 256% increase in the figures released yesterday. Obviously that's meant everyone local seeing sense today and wearing masks in crowded shops etc. because the public can be trusted to Do The Right Thing and take personal responsibility.
TBH, at this point I would make the slogan "Vaccinate. Ventilate." I realise that this falls foul of the three-word-slogan mantra, but I'd be prepared to reduce my fee by 33% to just £2m for the work I've done in coming up with this. It's a bargain compared with Dido Harding's £37bn, and probably more effective. It might even save Christmas.1 -
Yet according to the BBC they are getting rid of red list for visiting other countries in the near future.Ncovidius said:The Government are insisting that everyone wears face coverings, when inside the palace of Westminster ( except MPs). I can’t see it taking long for that to be slyly slid into general life (again). So that’s a dead cert ‘plan B’ within a couple of weeks then. It’s then surely only a short hop to ‘plan C’ ( no indoor mixing etc.) just in time for Christmas.
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Given the UK's numbers, the idea of a red list seems pretty quaint.0
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Vaccinate. Ventilate. Vacillate.briantrumpet said:
Hurrah.TheBigBean said:
I thought you would be pleased to here that there is a sign in Waterloo station detailing the things that are being done to keep passengers safe. Number one is ventilation.briantrumpet said:Waiting to see today's exciting - but delayed - update. My area saw a 256% increase in the figures released yesterday. Obviously that's meant everyone local seeing sense today and wearing masks in crowded shops etc. because the public can be trusted to Do The Right Thing and take personal responsibility.
TBH, at this point I would make the slogan "Vaccinate. Ventilate." I realise that this falls foul of the three-word-slogan mantra, but I'd be prepared to reduce my fee by 33% to just £2m for the work I've done in coming up with this. It's a bargain compared with Dido Harding's £37bn, and probably more effective. It might even save Christmas.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono1 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .Wilier Izoard XP0 -
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .0 -
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
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Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .0 -
Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.0 -
Or down to loads of people with symptoms / actual Covid, not coming forward for testing in London.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .0 -
Also the Immensa lab did much of the testing for South Wales so that will not have helped as in the sout West of England0
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Regarding your earlier point, based on the JCVI minutes published on Friday, it would seem that letting infection spread in school children was a very deliberate policy.briantrumpet said:Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
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Loosely, yes. But some real eyebrow raising lines in there, including at one point suggesting that all adults have been vaccinated, which is patently not the case. The other point that occurs to me is that chicken pox is a well known disease, the effects of which are well known over short and long term. So there is at least the possibility of weighing those longer term effects in children against more serious effects in adults. We can't really say the same about Covid due to its novelty.rick_chasey said:Like NHS policy re chicken pox.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I haven't seen the notes you are talking about, but this always seemed part of the plan in July. The idea is to not have a peak in the middle of winter.rjsterry said:
Regarding your earlier point, based on the JCVI minutes published on Friday, it would seem that letting infection spread in school children was a very deliberate policy.briantrumpet said:Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.
Even Australia and New Zealand are slowly accepting that managing the spread is going to be the best long term strategy available.0 -
I struggle to see how the UK spread is in any way managed.TheBigBean said:
I haven't seen the notes you are talking about, but this always seemed part of the plan in July. The idea is to not have a peak in the middle of winter.rjsterry said:
Regarding your earlier point, based on the JCVI minutes published on Friday, it would seem that letting infection spread in school children was a very deliberate policy.briantrumpet said:Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.
Even Australia and New Zealand are slowly accepting that managing the spread is going to be the best long term strategy available.
Minutes published here (in a muddled format that would embarrass a Parish Council).
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation#minutes
The specific set of minutes is this one.
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/iddfb4ppwkmtjusir2tc/view/878925577089
I'm pretty sure that a key part of medical ethics is informed consent. I don't think this meets that requirement.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The dangerous thing is to follow one policy while claiming not to be.TheBigBean said:
I haven't seen the notes you are talking about, but this always seemed part of the plan in July. The idea is to not have a peak in the middle of winter.rjsterry said:
Regarding your earlier point, based on the JCVI minutes published on Friday, it would seem that letting infection spread in school children was a very deliberate policy.briantrumpet said:Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.
Even Australia and New Zealand are slowly accepting that managing the spread is going to be the best long term strategy available.0 -
From a report in the Sunday Times on the UK's bacchanalia - guess the job of this clubber "enjoying the 'escapism' of being away from her job and children for a night, here with her old university friend, Andrea, wearing sequins and drinking blue WKD. They are staying in a hotel, their first night out in Newcastle for two years."
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I'll have a look if I get time tomorrow.rjsterry said:
I struggle to see how the UK spread is in any way managed.TheBigBean said:
I haven't seen the notes you are talking about, but this always seemed part of the plan in July. The idea is to not have a peak in the middle of winter.rjsterry said:
Regarding your earlier point, based on the JCVI minutes published on Friday, it would seem that letting infection spread in school children was a very deliberate policy.briantrumpet said:Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.
Even Australia and New Zealand are slowly accepting that managing the spread is going to be the best long term strategy available.
Minutes published here (in a muddled format that would embarrass a Parish Council).
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation#minutes
The specific set of minutes is this one.
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/iddfb4ppwkmtjusir2tc/view/878925577089
I'm pretty sure that a key part of medical ethics is informed consent. I don't think this meets that requirement.
The spread is managed in the sense that it is intentionally happening before winter. The alternative was delaying the removal of distancing measures and being hit with a big wave in the middle of winter.
I think all this was discussed in July.
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Quite a gamble that with next to no mitigation bar partial vaccination that the peak of the current wave will come before rather than during winter. And if that is the strategy, then it should be publicly stated at the time, not revealed several months later after numerous denials.TheBigBean said:
I'll have a look if I get time tomorrow.rjsterry said:
I struggle to see how the UK spread is in any way managed.TheBigBean said:
I haven't seen the notes you are talking about, but this always seemed part of the plan in July. The idea is to not have a peak in the middle of winter.rjsterry said:
Regarding your earlier point, based on the JCVI minutes published on Friday, it would seem that letting infection spread in school children was a very deliberate policy.briantrumpet said:Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.
Even Australia and New Zealand are slowly accepting that managing the spread is going to be the best long term strategy available.
Minutes published here (in a muddled format that would embarrass a Parish Council).
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation#minutes
The specific set of minutes is this one.
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/iddfb4ppwkmtjusir2tc/view/878925577089
I'm pretty sure that a key part of medical ethics is informed consent. I don't think this meets that requirement.
The spread is managed in the sense that it is intentionally happening before winter. The alternative was delaying the removal of distancing measures and being hit with a big wave in the middle of winter.
I think all this was discussed in July.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think it was which is why we discussed it on this thread in July. Although at the time, the gamble was whether cases would rocket in July.rjsterry said:
Quite a gamble that with next to no mitigation bar partial vaccination that the peak of the current wave will come before rather than during winter. And if that is the strategy, then it should be publicly stated at the time, not revealed several months later after numerous denials.TheBigBean said:
I'll have a look if I get time tomorrow.rjsterry said:
I struggle to see how the UK spread is in any way managed.TheBigBean said:
I haven't seen the notes you are talking about, but this always seemed part of the plan in July. The idea is to not have a peak in the middle of winter.rjsterry said:
Regarding your earlier point, based on the JCVI minutes published on Friday, it would seem that letting infection spread in school children was a very deliberate policy.briantrumpet said:Pross said:
Sure but it just seems odd that the highest rates are in an area where they still have slightly more cautious measures in place.kingstongraham said:
If it's spreading in schools and onwards to households, pubs, not going to stop that with masks in shops. Does mean that people can go to shops with some additional level of protection from the riddled masses if they are avoiding pubs while numbers are sky high.Pross said:
The thing I've found odd recently is that people have been pushing for some of the previous measures (such as masks) to be brought back in to fight increasing case rates in England but they've been retained in Wales and we apparently have the highest case rates in the UK and have done for a few weeks now.laurentian said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
Somewhere up thread, someone mentioned how comparitively low the cases were in central London a week or so ago.
The map on the link above seems to show this to also be the case in Leicester, Worcester, Derby, Cambridge, Nottingham, Salford, Blackburn and Darwen (remember there?), most of Kent (they even had their own variant!), Liverpool and possibly other larger conurbations while many areas of more sparse population have much higher (and increasing) numbers
Not sure whether this is just interesting or encouraging . . .
'More cautious measures' won't make a fig of difference when schools are where it's spreading, and from there to families. As I've mentioned before, I still have a sneaking suspicion that virtually uncontrolled spread amongst youngsters is what Johnson has been hoping will happen, but with plausible deniability.
Talking to a friend yesterday, the difference between the school where she works and the one where I work is like chalk and cheese. She was astounded to learn that mine has insisted on our LFTs (and pupils') being recorded on both the NHS and school systems, and that year bubble masking had been brought back in voluntarily as soon as a year bubble had more than a few cases. At her school, they've never been told to record their NHS covid tests at all. They had 225 cases in the three weeks up till half term, we had about 60. From the outset, she's been getting angry about how lax the head of her school has been: chickens have come home to roost now.
Even Australia and New Zealand are slowly accepting that managing the spread is going to be the best long term strategy available.
Minutes published here (in a muddled format that would embarrass a Parish Council).
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation#minutes
The specific set of minutes is this one.
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/iddfb4ppwkmtjusir2tc/view/878925577089
I'm pretty sure that a key part of medical ethics is informed consent. I don't think this meets that requirement.
The spread is managed in the sense that it is intentionally happening before winter. The alternative was delaying the removal of distancing measures and being hit with a big wave in the middle of winter.
I think all this was discussed in July.0 -
Here is an example from July
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave0 -
The quote in that article suggests opening up in summer *rather than* in the autumn when schools are back. That's quite a different thing than deliberately encouraging spread in schools during autumn, which appears to be what has happened. All mitigations bar a bit more ventilation have been removed in schools. Some have barely been bothering with LFD testing, and schools were specifically instructed that children should still attend school (or it be marked as an unauthorised absence) when parents or siblings tested positive. Thankfully, my own daughters' schools seem to have avoided the levels of infections reported elsewhere.TheBigBean said:Here is an example from July
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Meanwhile:Professor Calum Semple, a member of the government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), said there is a risk children in that age group could reach herd immunity through infection rather than vaccination.
He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “There is a risk of that, and it’s not a good way to get to herd immunity.
“Commentators would usually say it’s ridiculous to aim for herd immunity using natural wild-type infection because that brings with it disease and damage to children both from acute disease and potentially long Covid.”
He said there is “no pretence that this is a deliberate attempt to get herd immunity – that would also be ridiculous”.
https://www.tes.com/news/act-now-control-covid-surge-schools-dfe-told0 -
It's all the same point though. Trying to avoid a winter peak. If you look at France and Germany their cases are now rising whereas UK cases may be falling. Both of those countries have health care systems more able to cope in the winter, so it may work for them, but if UK cases are falling ahead of winter, then the strategy has worked.rjsterry said:
The quote in that article suggests opening up in summer *rather than* in the autumn when schools are back. That's quite a different thing than deliberately encouraging spread in schools during autumn, which appears to be what has happened. All mitigations bar a bit more ventilation have been removed in schools. Some have barely been bothering with LFD testing, and schools were specifically instructed that children should still attend school (or it be marked as an unauthorised absence) when parents or siblings tested positive. Thankfully, my own daughters' schools seem to have avoided the levels of infections reported elsewhere.TheBigBean said:Here is an example from July
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave0 -
My local cases are significantly higher than they were a month ago and rising. Half term doesn't seem to have made a dent. I'm not sure where the idea that cases are falling has come from. As the pattern appears to be repeated across SW London and Surrey.TheBigBean said:
It's all the same point though. Trying to avoid a winter peak. If you look at France and Germany their cases are now rising whereas UK cases may be falling. Both of those countries have health care systems more able to cope in the winter, so it may work for them, but if UK cases are falling ahead of winter, then the strategy has worked.rjsterry said:
The quote in that article suggests opening up in summer *rather than* in the autumn when schools are back. That's quite a different thing than deliberately encouraging spread in schools during autumn, which appears to be what has happened. All mitigations bar a bit more ventilation have been removed in schools. Some have barely been bothering with LFD testing, and schools were specifically instructed that children should still attend school (or it be marked as an unauthorised absence) when parents or siblings tested positive. Thankfully, my own daughters' schools seem to have avoided the levels of infections reported elsewhere.TheBigBean said:Here is an example from July
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Most places are significantly higher than a month ago and falling for the past week. Including the SE. London is significantly lower than most places, and falling for the past week.rjsterry said:
My local cases are significantly higher than they were a month ago and rising. Half term doesn't seem to have made a dent. I'm not sure where the idea that cases are falling has come from. As the pattern appears to be repeated across SW London and Surrey.TheBigBean said:
It's all the same point though. Trying to avoid a winter peak. If you look at France and Germany their cases are now rising whereas UK cases may be falling. Both of those countries have health care systems more able to cope in the winter, so it may work for them, but if UK cases are falling ahead of winter, then the strategy has worked.rjsterry said:
The quote in that article suggests opening up in summer *rather than* in the autumn when schools are back. That's quite a different thing than deliberately encouraging spread in schools during autumn, which appears to be what has happened. All mitigations bar a bit more ventilation have been removed in schools. Some have barely been bothering with LFD testing, and schools were specifically instructed that children should still attend school (or it be marked as an unauthorised absence) when parents or siblings tested positive. Thankfully, my own daughters' schools seem to have avoided the levels of infections reported elsewhere.TheBigBean said:Here is an example from July
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave0
