The big Coronavirus thread

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739

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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,936
    rick_chasey said:



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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,602
    rick_chasey said:


    To be fair the reason the graph looks so bad is because the numbers are relatively small. 76 per million doesn't feel bad considering the amount of infections at the moment. We need a graph showing hospitalisation over the duration of the pandemic for context.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,936
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:


    To be fair the reason the graph looks so bad is because the numbers are relatively small. 76 per million doesn't feel bad considering the amount of infections at the moment. We need a graph showing hospitalisation over the duration of the pandemic for context.

    That was partly implied by my gnomic reply. RC's picked a metric that makes the UK look bad, but zoom out, and you see that weekly numbers are declining from a not-as-bad figure as previously, despite an infection rate which is close to the worst we had before, from a more deadly variant. In other words, the vaccines are working, even if people are getting blasé and careless.



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  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 709
    briantrumpet said:

    rick_chasey said:



    By the two diagrams you present, it seems about 1 in 7 hospitalisations in the UK end up in ICU, but nearly all hospitalisations in France end up in ICU, and just over half in Italy.
    I would say such a discrepancy is due to how things are measured, how severity is judged, how many ICU beds are available, how much hospital capacity there is generally, etc. etc.
    Therefore the ICU diagram probably doesn't really tell us much.

    Do you have similar diagram for current death rates? I think per million, Rumania and Bulgaria may currently be higher than the UK, maybe the ex-Russian Baltic states too, but probably nowhere else in Europe of any size or population.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739
    It does seem odd that the hospitalisation rate is so much higher.
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,602
    Another interesting bit of context would be rates of hospitalisation per million for non-Covid related treatment. My hunch is that we will be high on that too because we have pretty poor health compared to similar countries and a system where it is relatively easy to get hospital attention compared to terrible treatment in the community.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    rick_chasey said:

    It does seem odd that the hospitalisation rate is so much higher.

    Despite Boris’s boasts we are now starting to lag significantly behind on double jabs. Portugal are bottom of your chart and are at 84% as opposed to our 67%.

    In my sample size of one people who refuse the jab do not bother with precautions
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,647
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It does seem odd that the hospitalisation rate is so much higher.

    Despite Boris’s boasts we are now starting to lag significantly behind on double jabs. Portugal are bottom of your chart and are at 84% as opposed to our 67%.

    In my sample size of one people who refuse the jab do not bother with precautions
    That'll be whole population Vs adult population. No comparable figures.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739
    edited October 2021



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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,273
    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It does seem odd that the hospitalisation rate is so much higher.

    Despite Boris’s boasts we are now starting to lag significantly behind on double jabs. Portugal are bottom of your chart and are at 84% as opposed to our 67%.

    In my sample size of one people who refuse the jab do not bother with precautions
    That'll be whole population Vs adult population. No comparable figures.
    No, Portugal has vaccinated 84% of whole population. It's almost all of the adults. Under 12s not vaccinated.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,273
    edited October 2021
    .
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 709
    rick_chasey said:





    Any chance of a similar chart but latest weekly rate rather than total rate over the whole pandemic?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,602
    So those of you who have flown recently, when do they check your test results and locator form? Is it at the boarding gate? Assumed it would be at check in but we did that online and are now through security
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739
    edited October 2021
    Pross said:

    So those of you who have flown recently, when do they check your test results and locator form? Is it at the boarding gate? Assumed it would be at check in but we did that online and are now through security

    At the gate if at all.

    When you land back in the UK your passenger locator form (or "PLF" as the woman at the airport kept shouting at people) is linked to your passport so if you haven't submitted it digitally you won't be able to get through the automated passport gates.


    The officiousness of the paperwork checks is linked to the airline, not the airport.

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  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,558
    Pross said:

    So those of you who have flown recently, when do they check your test results and locator form? Is it at the boarding gate? Assumed it would be at check in but we did that online and are now through security

    depends on carrier and individual flight...

    ba outbound from uk will often give the option to upload documents in the 72 hours pre-departure, this is done via mmb (manage my booking), but it's not offered on all flights

    you can just turn up at check-in and they'll do it there, if you've prepared for it there'll be no significant delay

    inbound to uk is more of a lottery...

    ba suggest uploading to verify (a non-ba app used by a few carriers), but it can fail to accept valid documents, and whether the check-in staff at the airport will accept it, or even have heard of it, is another matter, again be prepared for the check-in agent to do it manually

    most check-ins will accept electronic copies and the vaccination records in the nhs app, but some may demand paper even when it's not required by the destination country

    check-in agents use info coming from timatic for the rules, the iata site provides access to this... https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,602
    Cheers both. Flying with easyJet, I've got hard copies and digital copies of everything except our fit to fly test results which I have digitally only. Will make sure we get our PLF for the return done as soon as we can.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739
    EasyJet seem pretty chill....
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  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    The posts above relating to hospitalisation rates made me wonder about rates of testing in different countries. Has anyone seen stats of numbers of tests being conducted daily, either as absolute numbers or tests per million population etc? I’ve tried to find some with no joy.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,602
    rick_chasey said:

    EasyJet seem pretty chill....

    Yeah, having done the pre-flight testing all they asked to see was either a test result or the NHS vaccination certificate. All very quick and easy in the end.

    Was amazed how easy it was at the other end too. After realising I'd gone in the EU passport lane out of habit and crossing under the tape it was a quick self-scan passport and getting it stamped (which I think was optional). We were in our taxi with 10-15 minutes of leaving the plane and most of that was the walk to passport control.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,936
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    EasyJet seem pretty chill....

    Yeah, having done the pre-flight testing all they asked to see was either a test result or the NHS vaccination certificate. All very quick and easy in the end.

    Was amazed how easy it was at the other end too. After realising I'd gone in the EU passport lane out of habit and crossing under the tape it was a quick self-scan passport and getting it stamped (which I think was optional). We were in our taxi with 10-15 minutes of leaving the plane and most of that was the walk to passport control.
    I'll be using them to escape the 1970s UK Christmas, so that all sounds good.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739
    Can recommend avoiding KLM who are super officious and like to rub Brexit in ya face if you have a Brit passport.
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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,805
    rick_chasey said:

    Can recommend avoiding KLM who are super officious and like to rub Brexit in ya face if you have a Brit passport.

    Thanks!
    They are one option for my planned trip in July.
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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,936
    I was interested to read this, directly after having been told of a teacher colleague of a friend who did two LFTs that were positive, but the PCR test came back negative, just this last week. By the time the negative PCR came back on Thursday, she was feeling grotty, so stayed away from school, despite being told be her line manager that the PCR test took precedence. A second PCR test came back positive, so she had made the right call to believe the LFTs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/09/negative-pcr-test-covid-symptoms-self-isolate

    It's harder now to separate covid symptoms apart from cold symptoms, especially if you've been double-vaccinated, as they are:

    Headache
    Runny nose
    Sneezing
    Sore throat
    Loss of smell

    The previous ‘traditional’ symptoms as still outlined on the government website, such as anosmia (loss of smell), shortness of breath and fever rank way down the list, at 5, 29 and 12 respectively. A persistent cough now ranks at number 8 if you’ve had two vaccine doses, so is no longer the top indicator of having COVID.

    Curiously, we noticed that people who had been vaccinated and then tested positive for COVID-19 were more likely to report sneezing as a symptom compared with those without a jab.

    If you’ve been vaccinated and start sneezing a lot without an explanation, you should get a COVID test, especially if you are living or working around people who are at greater risk from the disease.


    Really helpful read here:

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-top-5-covid-symptoms
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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,701
    briantrumpet said:

    I was interested to read this, directly after having been told of a teacher colleague of a friend who did two LFTs that were positive, but the PCR test came back negative, just this last week. By the time the negative PCR came back on Thursday, she was feeling grotty, so stayed away from school, despite being told be her line manager that the PCR test took precedence. A second PCR test came back positive, so she had made the right call to believe the LFTs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/09/negative-pcr-test-covid-symptoms-self-isolate

    It's harder now to separate covid symptoms apart from cold symptoms, especially if you've been double-vaccinated, as they are:

    Headache
    Runny nose
    Sneezing
    Sore throat
    Loss of smell

    The previous ‘traditional’ symptoms as still outlined on the government website, such as anosmia (loss of smell), shortness of breath and fever rank way down the list, at 5, 29 and 12 respectively. A persistent cough now ranks at number 8 if you’ve had two vaccine doses, so is no longer the top indicator of having COVID.

    Curiously, we noticed that people who had been vaccinated and then tested positive for COVID-19 were more likely to report sneezing as a symptom compared with those without a jab.

    If you’ve been vaccinated and start sneezing a lot without an explanation, you should get a COVID test, especially if you are living or working around people who are at greater risk from the disease.


    Really helpful read here:

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-top-5-covid-symptoms
    As a, ahem, 'frequent sneezer' that's going to be tricky to spot. I guess loss of smell is the standout one.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739
    I guess we are all to blame


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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,936
    rick_chasey said:

    I guess we are all to blame



    No, Raab isn't, as he wasn't working from home.

    OK, so he wasn't working at all, but that's just a minor detail...
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,273
    edited October 2021
    Surely it was a great success. This is from the prime minister's speech : "very few countries could have pulled off the Kabul airlift – an astonishing feat by our brave armed forces"

    By the way, look at this transcript. https://www.conservatives.com/news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-speech-conference-2021
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739


    I’m increasingly of the view vaccinations should be mandatory unless a legitimate medical reason for otherwise.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,739
    edited October 2021


    Someone asked for this

    So presumably this is due to lower vaccination rates?
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