The big Coronavirus thread

kingstongraham

elbowloh said:

kingstongraham said:

I clicked on the first link there, which at a glance seems to show the UK doing quite well with an overall ranking of 4th out of the 11 countries they looked at.

What that means if you look at the first chart here: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly#rank is that the NHS performs pretty well on access to care, care process, administrative efficiency and equity, but 9th out of 11 on Health Care Outcomes.

No point having a system with great out comes if no one can access it though?

Also, this one shows the NHS being pretty darn good on quality of care (the best), but is from 2013, before the Tories could start running it into the ground.

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ranking-11-best-international-healthcare-countries-800x600@2x.png

Netherlands would be your sweet spot then.

That one from 2013 that had the NHS 1st is the same survey that had the NHS as 4th this year, The "Healthy Lives" metric where the UK is 10th is pretty much the same one as "Health Care Outcomes" in the 2021 survey where the UK is 9th.

elbowloh

kingstongraham said:

elbowloh said:

kingstongraham said:

I clicked on the first link there, which at a glance seems to show the UK doing quite well with an overall ranking of 4th out of the 11 countries they looked at.

What that means if you look at the first chart here: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly#rank is that the NHS performs pretty well on access to care, care process, administrative efficiency and equity, but 9th out of 11 on Health Care Outcomes.

No point having a system with great out comes if no one can access it though?

Also, this one shows the NHS being pretty darn good on quality of care (the best), but is from 2013, before the Tories could start running it into the ground.

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ranking-11-best-international-healthcare-countries-800x600@2x.png

Netherlands would be your sweet spot then.

That one from 2013 that had the NHS 1st is the same survey that had the NHS as 4th this year, The "Healthy Lives" metric where the UK is 10th is pretty much the same one as "Health Care Outcomes" in the 2021 survey where the UK is 9th.

Does healthy lives also include things like social care and diet/exercise though? I

kingstongraham

elbowloh said:

kingstongraham said:

elbowloh said:

kingstongraham said:

I clicked on the first link there, which at a glance seems to show the UK doing quite well with an overall ranking of 4th out of the 11 countries they looked at.

What that means if you look at the first chart here: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly#rank is that the NHS performs pretty well on access to care, care process, administrative efficiency and equity, but 9th out of 11 on Health Care Outcomes.

No point having a system with great out comes if no one can access it though?

Also, this one shows the NHS being pretty darn good on quality of care (the best), but is from 2013, before the Tories could start running it into the ground.

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ranking-11-best-international-healthcare-countries-800x600@2x.png

Netherlands would be your sweet spot then.

That one from 2013 that had the NHS 1st is the same survey that had the NHS as 4th this year, The "Healthy Lives" metric where the UK is 10th is pretty much the same one as "Health Care Outcomes" in the 2021 survey where the UK is 9th.

Does healthy lives also include things like social care and diet/exercise though? I

The description I can see says "includes deaths among infants and patients who would have survived had they received timely and effective healthcare".

The description of "Health Care Outcomes" for the 2021 study is:

The health care outcomes domain includes 10 measures of the health of populations selected to focus on outcomes that can be modified by health care (in contrast to public health measures such as life expectancy at birth, which may be affected more by social and economic conditions). The measures fall into three categories:

- Population health outcomes reflect the chronic disease and mortality burden of selected populations. We include two measures comparing countries on mortality defined by age (infant mortality, life expectancy at age 60) and one measure on the proportion of nonelderly adults who report having multiple common chronic conditions (arthritis, asthma or chronic lung disease, diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure).

- Mortality amenable to health care reflects deaths under age 75 from specific causes that are considered preventable in the presence of timely and effective health care. In the 2021 edition of Mirror, Mirror we dropped two previous measures replacing them with new standardized and publicly available OECD measures of mortality that consist of deaths considered preventable through effective primary prevention and other public health measures (“preventable mortality”) and of deaths that were considered treatable through more effective and timely health care interventions (“treatable mortality”).1 OECD combines these two measures to report “avoidable mortality” — for which we report the 10-year trend as an additional new measure.

-Condition-specific health outcomes measures include measures on 30-day in-hospital mortality following myocardial infarction and stroke, as well as two new measures in this section: maternal mortality and deaths from suicide. We dropped two OECD measures related to five-year cancer survival rates (breast and colon), because recent data were not available.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Thanks that’s really interesting.

Final sentence is entirely irrelevant to the rest but is a massive confirmation of my own view so I’m glad someone with some actual authority is saying it out loud.

It seems so blindingly obvious I never realised that it was controversial

Not even joking, a few years ago as a guest at dinner I once said i didn’t rate the NHS and refused to back down and basically got asked to leave.

We weren’t getting on generally but it was that that was beyond the pale.

So much to learn about a british linguistic culture

I am not a racist but...
I don’t mean to criticise but...
The people who work in the NHS are great but...

Most Brits have no experience of other systems so have no idea how laughably censored parts of the NHS are.

How many dinner parties have you been asked to leave?

Surprised he gets invited. People must like his wife

Charming! A few have met me on here (BB included) and i'm not that bad, honest.

Ben6899

Yeh, he's not bad.

TheBigBean

I remember when @ddraver met his pro race nemesis frenchfighter. It was a big love in. Always is. People are nicer to each other in real life.

ddraver

I outlasted the flounce tho...

(I'm not sure there was much love from him 🤣. It was good fun that.)

TheBigBean

Pro Race Christmas drinks are not what they used to be.

briantrumpet

Just FFS. Not one mention of ventilation. Belt, braces *and* underpants would be a good idea, I'd suggest. What is it with these people?

Some scientists said it was important that the messaging on masks was not undermined. Dr Deepti Gurdasani, an epidemiologist at Queen Mary University of London, said it was clearly established that people who were vaccinated could get infected and transmit Covid, and should wear masks in crowded places.

Infection rates in England currently are very high, so the risk of ‘super-spreading’ in indoor crowded places is also very high. And government officials not wearing masks in such environments undermines their own public messaging that advises others to do so, and further erodes public trust, which is critical in the midst of what is a crisis, where we’re having an NHS that’s already struggling and 1,000 deaths per week and it’s not even winter yet.

Trish Greenhalgh, a GP and professor of primary care health at the University of Oxford, said that while Covid vaccines had been a “game-changer” for the pandemic, vaccinated people should still wear masks at indoor events.

People who are fully vaccinated can still transmit the virus and still catch it. The more people in the room, the more chance that someone is exhaling the virus even when they’re vaccinated, but especially if they aren’t.

She urged people to take a “belt and braces” approach, adding:

The combination of masks and vaccines gives vastly more protection than either one alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/oct/04/coronavirus-live-news-new-rules-for-travel-in-england-new-zealand-to-phase-out-elimination-strategy

shirley_basso

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Thanks that’s really interesting.

Final sentence is entirely irrelevant to the rest but is a massive confirmation of my own view so I’m glad someone with some actual authority is saying it out loud.

It seems so blindingly obvious I never realised that it was controversial

Not even joking, a few years ago as a guest at dinner I once said i didn’t rate the NHS and refused to back down and basically got asked to leave.

We weren’t getting on generally but it was that that was beyond the pale.

So much to learn about a british linguistic culture

I am not a racist but...
I don’t mean to criticise but...
The people who work in the NHS are great but...

Most Brits have no experience of other systems so have no idea how laughably censored parts of the NHS are.

How many dinner parties have you been asked to leave?

Surprised he gets invited. People must like his wife

Having met her once, I can say she's very nice

rick_chasey

I'm a fan.

briantrumpet

From the figures from my school, I reckon the infection figures are going to go nuts over the next two weeks. Almost 10% of pupils off school, about half of those with covid. Vaccinated staff getting it too. Looking at the national map today, I suspect we're not an outlier, and the map has a bit of a time-lag too.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases

At the same time, a hospital consultant friend tells me that they are nearly empty of people being treated for covid. Clearly the vaccines are doing a major part of their job.

shirley_basso

That second paragraph does make for fantastic reading. I hope it's being reflected nationally.

First.Aspect

Numbers are interesting.

Infections have been steady for weeks, testing is declining, but so too are hospitalisations.

Does this reflect an ever more youthful demographic?

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

Numbers are interesting.

Infections have been steady for weeks, testing is declining, but so too are hospitalisations.

Does this reflect an ever more youthful demographic?

Yes. But also that older, vaccinated people aren't getting hospitalised. The figures for Devon:

briantrumpet

Nationally. Vaccines working.

briantrumpet

shirley_basso said:

That second paragraph does make for fantastic reading. I hope it's being reflected nationally.

With the result (he told me) that wards that had been repurposed for covid patients are going back to their proper function. His reflection was that March 2020 it was pure crisis management, and no-one in the NHS really knew what was coming.

darkhairedlord

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Thanks that’s really interesting.

Final sentence is entirely irrelevant to the rest but is a massive confirmation of my own view so I’m glad someone with some actual authority is saying it out loud.

It seems so blindingly obvious I never realised that it was controversial

Not even joking, a few years ago as a guest at dinner I once said i didn’t rate the NHS and refused to back down and basically got asked to leave.

We weren’t getting on generally but it was that that was beyond the pale.

So much to learn about a british linguistic culture

I am not a racist but...
I don’t mean to criticise but...
The people who work in the NHS are great but...

Most Brits have no experience of other systems so have no idea how laughably censored parts of the NHS are.

How many dinner parties have you been asked to leave?

I cant think which is worse, holding a dinner party or being invited to one. Being asked to leave is well down the list, just slightly above accepting an invitation to one.

shirley_basso

Do you not like seeing your friends / people?

Dinner parties are my jam

Dorset_Boy

shirley_basso said:

Do you not like seeing your friends / people?

Dinner parties are my jam

I'd guess it depends if you're meeting up for dinner at a friend's place or attending a pseudo networking event.

First.Aspect

I would encourage you all to find any version of "Abigail's Party" on a video streaming service.

elbowloh

shirley_basso said:

Do you not like seeing your friends / people?

Dinner parties are my jam

There's a difference between dinner at your mates and a dinner party.

rick_chasey

Gave the grad here a bit of a tour of all the good desk-lunch places near our office (i.e. varients on all the good independent sandwich/lunch shops).

I recon 70% were shut.

shirley_basso

elbowloh said:

shirley_basso said:

Do you not like seeing your friends / people?

Dinner parties are my jam

There's a difference between dinner at your mates and a dinner party.

I reckon RC's mates would still chuck him out

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Gave the grad here a bit of a tour of all the good desk-lunch places near our office (i.e. varients on all the good independent sandwich/lunch shops).

I recon 70% were shut.

That's because of bedwetters like you refusing to go back to the office

Pross

First train commute to Bristol since December 2019 for me today. It was bliss, it used to be standing room only on the early train and the later train regularly had to leave people on the platform at the next station and sometimes even my station. Today everyone had a double seat to themselves and there were plenty double seats empty too.

20 minute drive, 20 minute train journey and 20 minute walk instead of a 1 hour drive and it cost less than £15 in total (fuel and ticket) versus about £30 in fuel and parking.

Pross

Pross said:

First train commute to Bristol since December 2019 for me today. It was bliss, it used to be standing room only on the early train and the later train regularly had to leave people on the platform at the next station and sometimes even my station. Today everyone had a double seat to themselves and there were plenty double seats empty too.

20 minute drive, 20 minute train journey and 20 minute walk instead of a 1 hour drive and it cost less than £15 in total (fuel and ticket) versus about £30 in fuel and parking.

Spoke too soon. Train back delayed by 16 minutes as I left the office. By time I reached the station it was 22 minutes and kept getting later until the next train was arriving first. People are avoiding sitting directly next to each other so quite a few standing.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

Pross said:

First train commute to Bristol since December 2019 for me today. It was bliss, it used to be standing room only on the early train and the later train regularly had to leave people on the platform at the next station and sometimes even my station. Today everyone had a double seat to themselves and there were plenty double seats empty too.

20 minute drive, 20 minute train journey and 20 minute walk instead of a 1 hour drive and it cost less than £15 in total (fuel and ticket) versus about £30 in fuel and parking.

Spoke too soon. Train back delayed by 16 minutes as I left the office. By time I reached the station it was 22 minutes and kept getting later until the next train was arriving first. People are avoiding sitting directly next to each other so quite a few standing.

My train is as full as ever. Wouldn’t have noticed rona except for the face masks.

joe2019

Jurgen Klopp says refusing vaccine is like drink-driving as it endangers others.

The level of understanding is astonishing.

rick_chasey

joe2019 said:

Jurgen Klopp says refusing vaccine is like drink-driving as it endangers others.

The level of understanding is astonishing.

As in, you are surprised Klopp understands the cost to others for not being vaccinated?