The big Coronavirus thread

rick_chasey

Turns out Aunt (who lives abroad) is an anti vaxxer so she has been uninvited from the wedding of my sister (though I doubt she would make it in the country anyway)

pblakeney

Meh. Sister in law won't visit her daughter in Finland and see her new grand daughter as she refuses to be tested. As for vaccines, government conspiracy. Idiots walk amongst us.
What is more perplexing is that she is clever.

elbowloh

pblakeney said:

Meh. Sister in law won't visit her daughter in Finland and see her new grand daughter as she refuses to be tested. As for vaccines, government conspiracy. Idiots walk amongst us.
What is more perplexing is that she is clever.

rick_chasey said:

Turns out Aunt (who lives abroad) is an anti vaxxer so she has been uninvited from the wedding of my sister (though I doubt she would make it in the country anyway)

I have a step sister who constantly posted anti-vax rubbish on FB and "sheeple" nonsense. I had to unfollow.

She's had Covid, her 5 year old daughter got it and her dad (my stepdad got it) and was still posting that crap.

briantrumpet

I see they are still closing school classes for a week in France if there's a case detected. Genuinely don't know at this point whether that, or the UK policy of vaguely controlled spread in schools whilst youngsters are getting vaccinated, is the more sensible policy. Talking to a surgeon friend last night, it seems the RD&E hospital in Exeter has almost no patients being treated for covid, despite the high infection numbers in Devon.

briantrumpet

Seems that the school where I work is doing a mass vaccination on Monday for all the 12-16-years-olds. From straw polls I've done with my groups, I think there will be a large uptake, and from discussions with some, they are aware of the issues of personal benefit/risk versus/and the societal benefit.

First.Aspect

pblakeney said:

Meh. Sister in law won't visit her daughter in Finland and see her new grand daughter as she refuses to be tested. As for vaccines, government conspiracy. Idiots walk amongst us.
What is more perplexing is that she is clever.

Clearly not knowledgeable enough to understand available facts, nor wise enough to assess whether or not she is making an informed decision, or to seek advice from someone who can, though.

So define clever. Could be that she never was and it just hasn't come up before.

This is applicable to anti vaxxers in general.

surrey_commuter

briantrumpet said:

Seems that the school where I work is doing a mass vaccination on Monday for all the 12-16-years-olds. From straw polls I've done with my groups, I think there will be a large uptake, and from discussions with some, they are aware of the issues of personal benefit/risk versus/and the societal benefit.

is this with or without parental consent?

pblakeney

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

Meh. Sister in law won't visit her daughter in Finland and see her new grand daughter as she refuses to be tested. As for vaccines, government conspiracy. Idiots walk amongst us.
What is more perplexing is that she is clever.

Clearly not knowledgeable enough to understand available facts, nor wise enough to assess whether or not she is making an informed decision, or to seek advice from someone who can, though.

So define clever. Could be that she never was and it just hasn't come up before.

This is applicable to anti vaxxers in general.

This has been covered before. Intelligence and common sense are not joined.
Boils down to which sources you believe. Once you think the government is up to something then all official sources are negated.

briantrumpet

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Seems that the school where I work is doing a mass vaccination on Monday for all the 12-16-years-olds. From straw polls I've done with my groups, I think there will be a large uptake, and from discussions with some, they are aware of the issues of personal benefit/risk versus/and the societal benefit.

is this with or without parental consent?

Very much with. But as a large number of children at the school have parents who are medics, and the school is keen on vaccines, as a policy, I think there's very little push-back, more a case of "thank goodness, at last!", I suspect.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

Meh. Sister in law won't visit her daughter in Finland and see her new grand daughter as she refuses to be tested. As for vaccines, government conspiracy. Idiots walk amongst us.
What is more perplexing is that she is clever.

Clearly not knowledgeable enough to understand available facts, nor wise enough to assess whether or not she is making an informed decision, or to seek advice from someone who can, though.

So define clever. Could be that she never was and it just hasn't come up before.

This is applicable to anti vaxxers in general.

This has been covered before. Intelligence and common sense are not joined.
Boils down to which sources you believe. Once you think the government is up to something then all official sources are negated.

It is cultist behaviour, as with Trump supporters. They are literally killing themselves because of the anti-vax messaging from his cult (even if he's issued one or two messages about getting vaccinated). I don't know if there's a direct link with 'intelligence', even if a lot of Trumpists are really thick on any measure.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

Meh. Sister in law won't visit her daughter in Finland and see her new grand daughter as she refuses to be tested. As for vaccines, government conspiracy. Idiots walk amongst us.
What is more perplexing is that she is clever.

Clearly not knowledgeable enough to understand available facts, nor wise enough to assess whether or not she is making an informed decision, or to seek advice from someone who can, though.

So define clever. Could be that she never was and it just hasn't come up before.

This is applicable to anti vaxxers in general.

This has been covered before. Intelligence and common sense are not joined.
Boils down to which sources you believe. Once you think the government is up to something then all official sources are negated.

It is cultist behaviour, as with Trump supporters. They are literally killing themselves because of the anti-vax messaging from his cult (even if he's issued one or two messages about getting vaccinated). I don't know if there's a direct link with 'intelligence', even if a lot of Trumpists are really thick on any measure.

Hate to break the news, but sense and common sense are generally correlated.

It is also possible to pass off a little knowledge as overall intelligence, with sufficient eloquence. Christ, most of the cabinet do this for a living.

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

Meh. Sister in law won't visit her daughter in Finland and see her new grand daughter as she refuses to be tested. As for vaccines, government conspiracy. Idiots walk amongst us.
What is more perplexing is that she is clever.

Clearly not knowledgeable enough to understand available facts, nor wise enough to assess whether or not she is making an informed decision, or to seek advice from someone who can, though.

So define clever. Could be that she never was and it just hasn't come up before.

This is applicable to anti vaxxers in general.

This has been covered before. Intelligence and common sense are not joined.
Boils down to which sources you believe. Once you think the government is up to something then all official sources are negated.

It is cultist behaviour, as with Trump supporters. They are literally killing themselves because of the anti-vax messaging from his cult (even if he's issued one or two messages about getting vaccinated). I don't know if there's a direct link with 'intelligence', even if a lot of Trumpists are really thick on any measure.

Hate to break the news, but sense and common sense are generally correlated.

It is also possible to pass off a little knowledge as overall intelligence, with sufficient eloquence. Christ, most of the cabinet do this for a living.

Yeah, overall, but I'd be interested in properly clever people who get sucked down wormholes into culty behaviour (rather than those who do it cynically for financial gain).

rick_chasey

Being clever is overrated.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Being clever is overrated.

By whom?

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Being clever is overrated.

By whom?

People who think they are clever.

rick_chasey

Oh everyone.

In work, in life, in childhood, all of it. Being smart is valued too highly.

So you're clever - so what.

elbowloh

rick_chasey said:

Oh everyone.

In work, in life, in childhood, all of it. Being smart is valued too highly.

So you're clever - so what.

What's the threshold for being judged as clever?

shirley_basso

Presumably better prospects, potentially more interesting personality.

Perhaps not so chippy about their superb degree and then winding up being a recruiter

elbowloh

shirley_basso said:

Presumably better prospects, potentially more interesting personality.

Perhaps not so chippy about their superb degree and then winding up being a recruiter

rick_chasey

Yeah, ultimately I think for most things in life, work or not work, there's a sort of minimum threshold that isn't all that high, after which intelligence doesn't matter that much and it is much more about application and attitude.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

Yeah, ultimately I think for most things in life, work or not work, there's a sort of minimum threshold that isn't all that high, after which intelligence doesn't matter that much and it is much more about application and attitude.

Depends how you're measuring outcomes, and what outcomes you're measuring. Feynman (for instance) was undoubtedly clever, changed the face of physics, 'invented' Feynman diagrams, helped build the atomic bomb. His intelligence mattered.

It's a pretty pointless discussion, other than giving people the chance to wind each other up and disagree on definitions.

shirley_basso

It's a good thing to be, rather than to not be

First.Aspect

elbowloh said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh everyone.

In work, in life, in childhood, all of it. Being smart is valued too highly.

So you're clever - so what.

What's the threshold for being judged as clever?

Shoelaces.

jimmyjams

First.Aspect said:

elbowloh said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh everyone.

In work, in life, in childhood, all of it. Being smart is valued too highly.

So you're clever - so what.

What's the threshold for being judged as clever?

Shoelaces.

Do you mean being able to tie them? I've never been able to, at least in the manner which 99.9% of people tie them. When I was about 10 years old, noticing my inability, an aunt showed me a different, more intricate method, and which I still use to this day, decades later.

Over the years several people have noticed, and been fascinated (or irritated) by my unorthodox technique, but the high point was about 2 years ago when I was in a doctor's waiting room, and noticed my shoelace undone. I bent over to re-tie it, and an old woman sitting opposite, 90 years old if she were a day but 'all there', suddenly exclaimed out that she was delighted to see my method, not having seen that technique since she was a little girl.

shirley_basso

^ this needs a more thorough explaination please

briantrumpet

jimmyjams said:

First.Aspect said:

elbowloh said:

rick_chasey said:

Oh everyone.

In work, in life, in childhood, all of it. Being smart is valued too highly.

So you're clever - so what.

What's the threshold for being judged as clever?

Shoelaces.

Do you mean being able to tie them? I've never been able to, at least in the manner which 99.9% of people tie them. When I was about 10 years old, noticing my inability, an aunt showed me a different, more intricate method, and which I still use to this day, decades later.

Over the years several people have noticed, and been fascinated (or irritated) by my unorthodox technique, but the high point was about 2 years ago when I was in a doctor's waiting room, and noticed my shoelace undone. I bent over to re-tie it, and an old woman sitting opposite, 90 years old if she were a day but 'all there', suddenly exclaimed out that she was delighted to see my method, not having seen that technique since she was a little girl.

Is it this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh7y_weyMw0

First.Aspect

It is at least possible that you are over thinking this. Providing your shoes reliably don't fall off, I think you have achieved the objective.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Yeah, ultimately I think for most things in life, work or not work, there's a sort of minimum threshold that isn't all that high, after which intelligence doesn't matter that much and it is much more about application and attitude.

I found when looking at CVs that most people have a load of prejudices. For example, my colleague seems to only care who they know whereas I tend to try to analyse whether they know their subject.

All else equal I would always go with the intelligent person because I value it, and don't see any downsides. That isn't a universally held view though.

pblakeney

jimmyjams said:

...when I was in a doctor's waiting room, and noticed my shoelace undone. I bent over to re-tie it, ...

I'd say if they come undone then the method is not all that good*.
PS - Ring flashes used for filming videos is a real distraction in the subject's eyes.

*Edit :- Method I use. Starts at 1:25 and does not include the bonus tip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deymL_kfHuk

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Yeah, ultimately I think for most things in life, work or not work, there's a sort of minimum threshold that isn't all that high, after which intelligence doesn't matter that much and it is much more about application and attitude.

I found when looking at CVs that most people have a load of prejudices. For example, my colleague seems to only care who they know whereas I tend to try to analyse whether they know their subject.

All else equal I would always go with the intelligent person because I value it, and don't see any downsides. That isn't a universally held view though.

There is sometimes a sort or reverse snobbery that goes on, because whoever is hiring is quite thick and thus threatened. Or because the job is so boring they don't expect a bright person to stay.