The big Coronavirus thread

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  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    edited August 2021
    TheBigBean said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    TheBigBean said:

    The study, published in the British Medical Journal, looked for complications up to 28 days after being jabbed or infected.

    It found that for every 10 million people vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine:

    an extra 107 would be hospitalised or die from thrombocytopenia, which can cause internal bleeding and haemorrhages, but that was nearly nine times lower than the risk of the same condition following an infection
    an extra 66 would be hospitalised or die from blood clots in the veins, but that was nearly 200 times lower than the risk following an infection

    For every 10 million people vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, it found:

    143 extra strokes would be seen, but that was nearly 12 times lower than the risk following an infection
    Yes but that would still be over 1000 people per year if the whole UK population were vaccinated with AZ. It's significant enough - over 50% of the figure who are killed on UK roads - that in time we'd all at least know someone who knew someone that it had happened to.

    I mean I had AZ, I'd have AZ again if that is all that is on offer but I might ask if the Pfizer one is available.
    You'd prefer a stroke? Or should I infer from your subsequent posts that you missed that was an option with Pfizer?

    The latter - I read Pfizer as AZ.

    I refer you to the thread on the effects of ageing !
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    edited August 2021



    Schools going back shortly and it's already on a steady upwards trajectory.

    Any bets on where this is heading? It doesn't seem likely we will hit previous peaks but it definitely looks like it could escalate enough to cause some (a lot) more disruption.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    morstar said:




    Schools going back shortly and it's already on a steady upwards trajectory.

    Any bets on where this is heading? It doesn't seem likely we will hit previous peaks but it definitely looks like it could escalate enough to cause some (a lot) more disruption.


    Devon & Cornwall already on alert... and that's before we've crammed lots of unvaccinated youngsters into poorly ventilated classrooms.


    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,567
    briantrumpet said:

    morstar said:




    Schools going back shortly and it's already on a steady upwards trajectory.

    Any bets on where this is heading? It doesn't seem likely we will hit previous peaks but it definitely looks like it could escalate enough to cause some (a lot) more disruption.


    Devon & Cornwall already on alert... and that's before we've crammed lots of unvaccinated youngsters into poorly ventilated classrooms.


    Don't worry Brian, haven't all those youngsters been to a festival and caught Covid as a result?
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    The infection rates are horrendous already - I had a look at the BBC area checker and they are right up there with some of the peaks we've had.

    I think the relevant thing now is how that translates into deaths, hospitalisations and longer term complications (fatigue etc) which may not have required hospitalisation at least at the time.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    briantrumpet said:

    morstar said:




    Schools going back shortly and it's already on a steady upwards trajectory.

    Any bets on where this is heading? It doesn't seem likely we will hit previous peaks but it definitely looks like it could escalate enough to cause some (a lot) more disruption.


    Devon & Cornwall already on alert... and that's before we've crammed lots of unvaccinated youngsters into poorly ventilated classrooms.


    I assume there will be a big jump in positives with the kids back to twice weekly testing.
    A big increase would be a mixed outcome. In one sense encouraging that mortality and hospitalisation hasn’t sky rocketed but conversely must cause some concern about everything returning.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    Can't think why this hasn't been quoted at length here... it's The Telegraph, after all...




    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Cases here are pretty steady, not going up or down.

    Mask wearing and shops and the like is about 50/50, even though every shop is asking people to wear them for the protection of their staff more than anything, but some people are cnuts and only think of themselves.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
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  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    edited August 2021
    Deleted


  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    elbowloh said:

    Cases here are pretty steady, not going up or down.

    Mask wearing and shops and the like is about 50/50, even though every shop is asking people to wear them for the protection of their staff more than anything, but some people are cnuts and only think of themselves.

    Am currently in Ludlow and there are less people wearing masks than in Canary Wharf pre-Covid.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    surrey_commuter said:

    elbowloh said:

    Cases here are pretty steady, not going up or down.

    Mask wearing and shops and the like is about 50/50, even though every shop is asking people to wear them for the protection of their staff more than anything, but some people are cnuts and only think of themselves.

    Am currently in Ludlow and there are less people wearing masks than in Canary Wharf pre-Covid.
    Not much point in a place like that, they're all related and shagging each other.
  • photonic69
    photonic69 Posts: 2,809
    I’M BEMUSED by the media discussion in the wake of the US intelligence services’ (inconclusive) briefing to Biden about the true origins of Covid-19.
    Last weekend (Sun 22), Ch4 in the UK broadcast a documentary, “Did Covid Leak from a Lab in China”, which, after watching it, I expected would set the news media alight with its claim that the first incidences of the disease actually occurred in a mine in China in 2016, years before the earliest date of 2019 that is publicly treated as the “start date”.
    The show presented evidence from a number of respected investigative scientists that people then appeared to have been infected directly by bats, ie with no intermediary animal(s) involved. And that the Wuhan research facility had subsequently been experimenting with live bats while officially denying any such experimentation had taken place there.
    The programme also ventured to pinpoint exactly why the original WHO “investigation” into the Wuhan facility was a carefully managed cover-up.
    Can you guess what explosive conclusion this extremely carefully researched programme arrived at?
    So why no mention of it on BBC shows like Radio 4’s BBC Inside Science, which discussed the current US “conclusions” in its most recent edition? Could it be something as simple as platform envy – ie “Channel 4 got there first so we at the Beeb will just ignore it”? Watch the doc yourself on All4 at:
    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/did-covid-leak-from-a-lab-in-china
    The very next night (Mon 23) BBC2 screened an equally intriguing doc “China’s Magic Weapon” about the secretive work of CCP’s United Front Work Department, which it claimed uses people working for internationally-based Chinese businesses on a massive scale to influence foreign governments. The show can be found on BBC iPlayer here:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000z2yt
    Two sets of fascinating/scary revelations about China on successive nights that both seem to have been mysteriously deemed unworthy of any media follow-up. At a pinch, this could be explained by news media’s (understandable) focus on the Afghan crisis. I just hope it really is a simple case of very bad timing for the news agenda, and not anything more insidious.


    Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,181
    The whole point of not knowing something is that you don't know.

    The inside science episode I listened to seemed pretty clear. That the genetics suggest there was likely an intermediary species, in which the virus has resided for decades, but they didn't know what it was.

    The problem with your post above is that it is presented as a coherent body of evidence. In fact it is a list of potentially unrelated pieces of partial information.

    I have some questions.

    - Was the 2016 outbreak Covid? Or SARS? Was there any direct evidence either way?

    - Did the WHO really cover anything up? Or just not find anything?

    - What is an investigative scientist?

    - Given that the closest bat viruses to Covid have been identified, and these aren't covid, what is the significance of the alleged bat research?

    - What has the BBC2 documentary about government lobbying got to do with the pandemic?
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,230
    Any fule kno that correlation does equal causation.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,921
    The reason there is no reaction to the documentary is that it didn't contain any new information. All of the points made above were discussed in this thread when published by nymag.

    To answer @First.Aspect 's queries from memory. The 2016 cases were just six people and didn't involve human to human transmission, but it was a very deadly bat coronavirus. This virus was then recorded and logged by the Wuhan Institute.

    The virus is the closest to covid, but is not covid. For some entirely bonkers reason, they did gain of function experiments on viruses to make them more transmissible and more deadly to humans. One of the allegations is that they messed around with this virus. The other theory being covid was logged in the same way from a bat and it somehow leaked.

    The WHO didn't discover anything because they weren't allowed access to much. Worth noting that the US rep in the WHO enquiry was responsible for funding the Wuhan Institute and appears to have tried to dismiss such theories in a dubious way. No idea how much influence he had on the whole investigation.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pross said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    elbowloh said:

    Cases here are pretty steady, not going up or down.

    Mask wearing and shops and the like is about 50/50, even though every shop is asking people to wear them for the protection of their staff more than anything, but some people are cnuts and only think of themselves.

    Am currently in Ludlow and there are less people wearing masks than in Canary Wharf pre-Covid.
    Not much point in a place like that, they're all related and shagging each other.
    I put it down to being Northern sticks but we are not far apart
  • mully79
    mully79 Posts: 904
    My understanding was that the gain in function genetic meddling was completed on the virus from the cave but they'd conveniently changed its name so that it wasn't directly traceable to said cave/date/sample.

    It was suggested that covid 19 was likely this original virus (96% match) that had been modified genetically for gain of function. On testing covid 19s transmisability against all reasonable animals it was found to be perfectly adapted to humans in the first instance and therefore probably hadn't come via another host.

    It was also clear that the safety protocols for handling the virus were not as safe as they should be.

    Or you can believe it came from the wet market !
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,181
    Most of this is wrong, I think.

    96% isn't a particularly close genetic match. This suggests it DID come via another host.

    It wasn't perfectly adapted to humans in the first place.

    It was adapted for humans, yes but that is because humans share the relevant receptor with other animals. Hence, your domestic dog or cat can catch it.

    The fact the receptor is so common makes identifying the source so hard.

    https://www.pnas.org/content/117/36/22311

    Yes the Chinese could probably have helped the WHO investigation a bit more, but it was always going to be challenging.

    The mutations since it has been circulating in the human population have clearly made it more adapted to humans, and we don't know how much more there is to come. But the progress of these adaptations themselves further confirm that this wasn't a human specific virus in the first placeand are again completely consistent with the most likely scenario put forward by the many scientists who don't want to talk to channel 4 and raise their profile.
  • womack
    womack Posts: 566
    UK relegated to 8th position in the Covid Deaths League Table after being passed by Indonesia who have been racking up some big numbers of late.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    surrey_commuter said:

    Pross said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    elbowloh said:

    Cases here are pretty steady, not going up or down.

    Mask wearing and shops and the like is about 50/50, even though every shop is asking people to wear them for the protection of their staff more than anything, but some people are cnuts and only think of themselves.

    Am currently in Ludlow and there are less people wearing masks than in Canary Wharf pre-Covid.
    Not much point in a place like that, they're all related and shagging each other.
    I put it down to being Northern sticks but we are not far apart
    All the big firms I know have very strict mask rules in the office - above and beyond the law.

    I suspect given the wharf is populated by mainly people at work at big firms...
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*
    _
  • Ncovidius
    Ncovidius Posts: 229
    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Ncovidius said:

    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
    Nope. If you're fully vaccinated, you need to take a pcr test if you have symptoms, otherwise you are free to go infect your workplace.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,567
    Ncovidius said:

    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
    Not if you've been double jabbed, which as Rick considers him to be gammon, he will have been. He should have had a PCR test though, and if that was negative he's free to go, if it was positive he'd be isolating obviously.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,331
    edited August 2021
    kingstongraham said:

    Ncovidius said:

    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
    Nope. If you're fully vaccinated, you need to take a pcr test if you have symptoms, otherwise you are free to go infect your workplace.
    It is an effective method to reach herd immunity.
    Not a good method, but an effective one.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited August 2021
    Dorset_Boy said:

    Ncovidius said:

    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
    Not if you've been double jabbed, which as Rick considers him to be gammon, he will have been. He should have had a PCR test though, and if that was negative he's free to go, if it was positive he'd be isolating obviously.
    Correct. Though I think he's just doing lateral flow tests.

    It's just anti-social, from where I am sitting.

    It is fairly self defeating. I need to get abroad for a funeral in couple weeks. I was planning to head into the office but I can't take the risk that I can't make it, so now I won't.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,181
    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Ncovidius said:

    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
    Not if you've been double jabbed, which as Rick considers him to be gammon, he will have been. He should have had a PCR test though, and if that was negative he's free to go, if it was positive he'd be isolating obviously.
    Correct. Though I think he's just doing lateral flow tests.

    It's just anti-social, from where I am sitting.

    It is fairly self defeating. I need to get abroad for a funeral in couple weeks. I was planning to head into the office but I can't take the risk that I can't make it, so now I won't.
    You still holding out for that promotion before you stop working for this chopper?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Ncovidius said:

    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
    Not if you've been double jabbed, which as Rick considers him to be gammon, he will have been. He should have had a PCR test though, and if that was negative he's free to go, if it was positive he'd be isolating obviously.
    Correct. Though I think he's just doing lateral flow tests.

    It's just anti-social, from where I am sitting.

    It is fairly self defeating. I need to get abroad for a funeral in couple weeks. I was planning to head into the office but I can't take the risk that I can't make it, so now I won't.
    You still holding out for that promotion before you stop working for this chopper?
    The promotion involves leaving this particular team and becoming master of my own destiny :)
    _
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,567
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Ncovidius said:

    rick_chasey said:

    So my boss' daughter caught rona at that Boardmaster's festival - his wife who got the jabs very early on has now got it and is bedridden with it and he's coming into the office tomorrow.

    *facepalm*

    I thought you still have to isolate if you’ve been in direct / close contact with a confirmed positive case.
    Not if you've been double jabbed, which as Rick considers him to be gammon, he will have been. He should have had a PCR test though, and if that was negative he's free to go, if it was positive he'd be isolating obviously.
    Correct. Though I think he's just doing lateral flow tests.

    It's just anti-social, from where I am sitting.

    It is fairly self defeating. I need to get abroad for a funeral in couple weeks. I was planning to head into the office but I can't take the risk that I can't make it, so now I won't.
    You still holding out for that promotion before you stop working for this chopper?
    The promotion involves leaving this particular team and becoming master of my own destiny :)
    So setting up on your own then?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Sort of.

    Either way, I think it's a bit of a d!ck move to go into the office when 2/3rds of your home are confirmed positive covid cases *right now*.
    _

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