Coronavirus and pro sport

fenix

bobmcstuff said:

DeVlaeminck said:

fenix said:

blazing_saddles said:

German football gets Merkel's green light for go, around the middle of this month.
(She's also said all shops can re-open)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52557699

Meanwhile, the UCI boss has mentioned the the D word again if the Tour doesn't go ahead.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/uci-president-says-not-holding-the-tour-de-france-in-2020-would-be-a-disaster-as-he-shares-thoughts-on-new-worldtour-calendar-455458

Yes. 22 players behind closed doors for 90 mins is very similar to 176 riders being in close formation for 6 Hours a Day on the public roads.

Makes as much sense as us lifting some of the lockdown restrictions too soon.

22 players plus subs plus officials multiplied by however many games are played - not that different. Public roads makes little difference unless we have crowds packed watching .

And the different hotels, start towns etc they would be staying in every night.

On the tour you'd likely come into contact with 100s of people.
All the riders - sitting on their wheels and sharing breaths.

Helpers handing up food and drink. Hotel staff. Drivers. Mechanics. Masseuses. DS's.

Football - 21 other people and presumably you'd get tests between games ?

And you'd still need the marshals to support the race. How many there for each stage.

Football is nothing like a 3 week tour. One case and you could take out the whole peleton.

redvision

fenix said:

bobmcstuff said:

DeVlaeminck said:

fenix said:

blazing_saddles said:

German football gets Merkel's green light for go, around the middle of this month.
(She's also said all shops can re-open)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52557699

Meanwhile, the UCI boss has mentioned the the D word again if the Tour doesn't go ahead.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/uci-president-says-not-holding-the-tour-de-france-in-2020-would-be-a-disaster-as-he-shares-thoughts-on-new-worldtour-calendar-455458

Yes. 22 players behind closed doors for 90 mins is very similar to 176 riders being in close formation for 6 Hours a Day on the public roads.

Makes as much sense as us lifting some of the lockdown restrictions too soon.

22 players plus subs plus officials multiplied by however many games are played - not that different. Public roads makes little difference unless we have crowds packed watching .

And the different hotels, start towns etc they would be staying in every night.

On the tour you'd likely come into contact with 100s of people.
All the riders - sitting on their wheels and sharing breaths.

Helpers handing up food and drink. Hotel staff. Drivers. Mechanics. Masseuses. DS's.

Football - 21 other people and presumably you'd get tests between games ?

And you'd still need the marshals to support the race. How many there for each stage.

Football is nothing like a 3 week tour. One case and you could take out the whole peleton.

Skysports had an article last week looking at the minimum number of personnel (including players) needed for a behind closed doors match and it was staggering for an individual match. IIRC the minimum was 350, but usually matches played in these circumstances and broadcast require up to 500.

Quite how the football authorities, clubs, drs, police and the govt fund a solution is going to be very interesting. I suspect all eyes will be on Germany from next week.

Personally I think the season should just be ended.

blazing_saddles

fenix said:

bobmcstuff said:

DeVlaeminck said:

fenix said:

blazing_saddles said:

German football gets Merkel's green light for go, around the middle of this month.
(She's also said all shops can re-open)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52557699

Meanwhile, the UCI boss has mentioned the the D word again if the Tour doesn't go ahead.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/uci-president-says-not-holding-the-tour-de-france-in-2020-would-be-a-disaster-as-he-shares-thoughts-on-new-worldtour-calendar-455458

Yes. 22 players behind closed doors for 90 mins is very similar to 176 riders being in close formation for 6 Hours a Day on the public roads.

Makes as much sense as us lifting some of the lockdown restrictions too soon.

22 players plus subs plus officials multiplied by however many games are played - not that different. Public roads makes little difference unless we have crowds packed watching .

And the different hotels, start towns etc they would be staying in every night.

On the tour you'd likely come into contact with 100s of people.
All the riders - sitting on their wheels and sharing breaths.

Helpers handing up food and drink. Hotel staff. Drivers. Mechanics. Masseuses. DS's.

Football - 21 other people and presumably you'd get tests between games ?

And you'd still need the marshals to support the race. How many there for each stage.

Football is nothing like a 3 week tour. One case and you could take out the whole peleton.

Football fan are we?
Try anything up to 500 people needed per game.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-behind-closed-doors-karen-brady-a4417851.html

"Police officers will need to be at games even if they are behind closed doors, as some supporters will travel to the stadium, even if they cannot come in to watch," Brady wrote in The Sun. "But the police will want to ensure attending matches does not drain resources away from other matters.

"Everyone at the stadium - and even behind closed doors this is about 300-500 people - including security, staff, medical officers, players, referees and media, will have to have temperature checks, fill out health questionnaires and observe social distancing."

And all this is supposed to happen in the next few weeks, not September.

focuszing723

Pedalos? Just putting it out there for discussion.

RichN95.

blazing_saddles said:

Football fan are we?
Try anything up to 500 people needed per game.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-behind-closed-doors-karen-brady-a4417851.html

"Police officers will need to be at games even if they are behind closed doors, as some supporters will travel to the stadium, even if they cannot come in to watch," Brady wrote in The Sun. "But the police will want to ensure attending matches does not drain resources away from other matters.

"Everyone at the stadium - and even behind closed doors this is about 300-500 people - including security, staff, medical officers, players, referees and media, will have to have temperature checks, fill out health questionnaires and observe social distancing."

And all this is supposed to happen in the next few weeks, not September.

Bear in mind here that Karen Brady desperately wants the season voided as West Ham are in danger of relegation

DeVlaeminck

blazing_saddles said:

fenix said:

bobmcstuff said:

DeVlaeminck said:

fenix said:

blazing_saddles said:

German football gets Merkel's green light for go, around the middle of this month.
(She's also said all shops can re-open)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52557699

Meanwhile, the UCI boss has mentioned the the D word again if the Tour doesn't go ahead.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/uci-president-says-not-holding-the-tour-de-france-in-2020-would-be-a-disaster-as-he-shares-thoughts-on-new-worldtour-calendar-455458

Yes. 22 players behind closed doors for 90 mins is very similar to 176 riders being in close formation for 6 Hours a Day on the public roads.

Makes as much sense as us lifting some of the lockdown restrictions too soon.

22 players plus subs plus officials multiplied by however many games are played - not that different. Public roads makes little difference unless we have crowds packed watching .

And the different hotels, start towns etc they would be staying in every night.

On the tour you'd likely come into contact with 100s of people.
All the riders - sitting on their wheels and sharing breaths.

Helpers handing up food and drink. Hotel staff. Drivers. Mechanics. Masseuses. DS's.

Football - 21 other people and presumably you'd get tests between games ?

And you'd still need the marshals to support the race. How many there for each stage.

Football is nothing like a 3 week tour. One case and you could take out the whole peleton.

Football fan are we?
Try anything up to 500 people needed per game.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-behind-closed-doors-karen-brady-a4417851.html

"Police officers will need to be at games even if they are behind closed doors, as some supporters will travel to the stadium, even if they cannot come in to watch," Brady wrote in The Sun. "But the police will want to ensure attending matches does not drain resources away from other matters.

"Everyone at the stadium - and even behind closed doors this is about 300-500 people - including security, staff, medical officers, players, referees and media, will have to have temperature checks, fill out health questionnaires and observe social distancing."

And all this is supposed to happen in the next few weeks, not September.

Exactly - and multiply by the number of games played - if football can go ahead cycling certainly can. In fact I'd say 1 day races are in a far better position to take place as cyclists can train alone so one testing positive needn't take out the whole team.

pblakeney

...and this is why caution should still remain.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52583739

TheBigBean

Live football on TV today. From Korea

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/52581366

blazing_saddles

pblakeney said:

...and this is why caution should still remain.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52583739

Not sure what relevance 3 footballers playing in Italy have to do the German Bundesliga or a football match taking place in S Korea.

DeVlaeminck

If whole offices and factories are going to shut because one person tests positive for the virus then we may as well go back to subsistance farming. Cyclists, footballers, etc will test positive it can't be a reason to shut the whole sport down or else all sports people are going to be out of a job and all major sports teams will go bust.

pblakeney

If one person tests positive then they are going into isolation, as is everyone else that they came into direct contact with.
Now take that logic to team sports.

DeVlaeminck

As I say take that logic into offices and factories - they won't.

But basically that is why I think 1 day races are in a good position to go ahead though - you train alone - turn up and race. If a rider tests positive you get a test and if negative you crack on to the next race.

Tours seem to me to be more like football leagues in that they are ongoing over multiple days.

kingstongraham

DeVlaeminck said:

As I say take that logic into offices and factories - they won't.

But basically that is why I think 1 day races are in a good position to go ahead though - you train alone - turn up and race. If a rider tests positive you get a test and if negative you crack on to the next race.

Tours seem to me to be more like football leagues in that they are ongoing over multiple days.

In offices, when there is a confirmed case, those who have been in close contact should be tested (and isolated until the result comes back). I'd get used to it.

That hasn't happened in meat processing plants in the USA, and they are in a terrible state as a result.

pblakeney

DeVlaeminck said:

As I say take that logic into offices and factories - they won't.

But basically that is why I think 1 day races are in a good position to go ahead though - you train alone - turn up and race. If a rider tests positive you get a test and if negative you crack on to the next race.

Tours seem to me to be more like football leagues in that they are ongoing over multiple days.

They have, and they will take that into offices and factories.
That was exactly our office procedure pre-lockdown and I doubt it will change.
Duty of care for the other employees will override any other action.

blazing_saddles

Methinks some people spend too much time in the cake shop preaching indefinite lockdown.

We will have to learn to adapt, live and work with this virus. We can't simply run away and hide until such time as a vaccine becomes available.
People will continue to die even after a vaccine is found, as happens every year with Flu.

DeVlaeminck

For top level sport they'll get a quick test with a same day result and if negative crack on - no need to stop play and isolate people just in case. The alternative is they all go and get a real job - I know which I'd choose. My own side are grassroots amateurs and they'd return tomorrow if allowed .

Pre lock down and lock down procedures are not going to be workable for the next 18 months or however long it takes - as Blazing says there has to be some recognition that life can't stop indefinitely.

kingstongraham

blazing_saddles said:

Methinks some people spend too much time in the cake shop preaching indefinite lockdown.

We will have to learn to adapt, live and work with this virus. We can't simply run away and hide until such time as a vaccine becomes available.
People will continue to die even after a vaccine is found, as happens every year with Flu.

We do. Which should involve tracing contacts of people who have had it, testing them and isolating them. And temporarily reducing gatherings of people.

That's straightforward enough. But sport (and theatres and bars and clubs) shouldn't be a top priority.

No-one I can think of has preached indefinite lockdown, that's just an extreme position invented to rail against.

kingstongraham

Get the fucker under control and the tests would pretty much all come back negative anyway, so no problem. Don't get it under control, no sport because of all the dying. That's the way I see it, anyway.

fenix

Exactly. It's only sport.
Lives are more important.
I'd rather be able to get back to normal than still be in lockdown but able to watch the tour on TV.

fenix

blazing_saddles said:

fenix said:

bobmcstuff said:

DeVlaeminck said:

fenix said:

blazing_saddles said:

German football gets Merkel's green light for go, around the middle of this month.
(She's also said all shops can re-open)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52557699

Meanwhile, the UCI boss has mentioned the the D word again if the Tour doesn't go ahead.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/uci-president-says-not-holding-the-tour-de-france-in-2020-would-be-a-disaster-as-he-shares-thoughts-on-new-worldtour-calendar-455458

Yes. 22 players behind closed doors for 90 mins is very similar to 176 riders being in close formation for 6 Hours a Day on the public roads.

Makes as much sense as us lifting some of the lockdown restrictions too soon.

22 players plus subs plus officials multiplied by however many games are played - not that different. Public roads makes little difference unless we have crowds packed watching .

And the different hotels, start towns etc they would be staying in every night.

On the tour you'd likely come into contact with 100s of people.
All the riders - sitting on their wheels and sharing breaths.

Helpers handing up food and drink. Hotel staff. Drivers. Mechanics. Masseuses. DS's.

Football - 21 other people and presumably you'd get tests between games ?

And you'd still need the marshals to support the race. How many there for each stage.

Football is nothing like a 3 week tour. One case and you could take out the whole peleton.

Football fan are we?

Christ no. But it's a good example. Everything is more complicated than you think.

One day classics would be much more manageable than a three week tour as has been said.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

Get the fucker under control and the tests would pretty much all come back negative anyway, so no problem. Don't get it under control, no sport because of all the dying. That's the way I see it, anyway.

The swear filter on this forum puzzles me.

kingstongraham

Ha!

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Get the fucker under control and the tests would pretty much all come back negative anyway, so no problem. Don't get it under control, no sport because of all the dying. That's the way I see it, anyway.

The swear filter on this forum puzzles me.

For fucks sake! The fucking fuckers fucked again.
Always a good test. 😉
Seems to be working fine. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
And now it's not.... 🤣🤣🤣🤔🤣🤣🤣🤔

blazing_saddles

fenix said:

Exactly. It's only sport.
Lives are more important.

So it seems, but only in terms of this virus.

4 and a quarter million deaths worldwide from other communicable diseases in just 5 months of this year, but over which nobody seems to bat an eye.
It's the disproportionate response that really pees me off.
Why doesn't anybody seem to care about them?

andyp

blazing_saddles said:

fenix said:

Exactly. It's only sport.
Lives are more important.

So it seems, but only in terms of this virus.

4 and a quarter million deaths worldwide from other communicable diseases in just 5 months of this year, but over which nobody seems to bat an eye.
It's the disproportionate response that really pees me off.
Why doesn't anybody seem to care about them?

I don't think you quite understand what a pandemic is.

kingstongraham

This one's probably killed over half a million since late march so far. Over quarter of a million confirmed.

blazing_saddles

andyp said:

blazing_saddles said:

fenix said:

Exactly. It's only sport.
Lives are more important.

So it seems, but only in terms of this virus.

4 and a quarter million deaths worldwide from other communicable diseases in just 5 months of this year, but over which nobody seems to bat an eye.
It's the disproportionate response that really pees me off.
Why doesn't anybody seem to care about them?

I don't think you quite understand what a pandemic is.

I am pretty sure that nobody fully understands this pandemic, including both of us.

fenix

Mr BS - what's your job ? Are you back at work normally yet ?

No_Ta_Doctor

blazing_saddles said:

fenix said:

Exactly. It's only sport.
Lives are more important.

So it seems, but only in terms of this virus.

4 and a quarter million deaths worldwide from other communicable diseases in just 5 months of this year, but over which nobody seems to bat an eye.
It's the disproportionate response that really pees me off.
Why doesn't anybody seem to care about them?

Couple of points here.
Firstly, a hell of a lot of people care a great deal about deaths from other causes, including other communicable diseases. However, most of these deaths stem from social conditions that allow these diseases to spread (e.g. dysentery, cholera, tuberculosis) and there is no political will to change that as it would involve radical change in the economic system. Those deaths, globally, are mostly in impoverished countries and they're counted as an acceptable loss because the very poverty that causes them is the same poverty that keeps the price down on our coffee, electrical gizmos etc.

Secondly, the death toll quoted is despite numerous countries taking counter-measures, such as going into lockdown. Without those measures this would look far, far worse. Before claiming the response is disproportionate you need a half-decent estimate of what the death toll would have looked like if we hadn't acted.

blazing_saddles

My point was that I think we aren't doing nearly enough in terms of other diseases in light of the world's response to covid.
I must admit to being somewhat ashamed by until recently having no idea the numbers were so staggering.
I think No_Ta_Doctor makes some valid observations.