Boris as PM

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  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,195
    So 'Dodger, what are your thoughts on BloJo as 'our' prime minister? And no, no deflections onto Corbyn or Sturgeon or otherwise. Just, as you yourself might say, answer the xxxxing question.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,195
    What's that sound? Sounds like tumbleweed....
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,598
    I'm trying to figure out where or who this 'Dodger' bloke is so you can get the answer you so desperately want. Maybe put out a search party?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    Boris, for all the fact that he's unfit to be PM and is a complete arse has one thing going for him. He's not Jeremy Corbyn.
    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    edited November 2019
    longshot said:

    Boris, for all the fact that he's unfit to be PM and is a complete 20p for the swearbox has one thing going for him. He's not Jeremy Corbyn.

    This is the problem for non-socialist worker, non-headbanging b4stard voters. A hung parliament is surely the only way for either of them to not get what they want. Both main parties are now dominated by their worst instincts.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    edited November 2019
    kingstongraham said:

    longshot said:

    Boris, for all the fact that he's unfit to be PM and is a complete 20p for the swearbox has one thing going for him. He's not Jeremy Corbyn.

    This is the problem for non-socialist worker, non-headbanging b4stard voters. A hung parliament is surely the only way for either of them to not get what they want. Both main parties are now dominated by their worst instincts.
    And just to put the icing on the cake... the Libs are really pennies for the swearboxing up the chance to come throught the middle.
    TBF though, there seems to be a whole thing about the middle getting squezed out at the moment, so it's not just their fault.

    It's not getting any less depressing.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    Yes, it's actually the four main parties who are enabling their worst instincts.
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    bompington said:

    kingstongraham said:

    longshot said:

    Boris, for all the fact that he's unfit to be PM and is a complete 20p for the swearbox has one thing going for him. He's not Jeremy Corbyn.

    This is the problem for non-socialist worker, non-headbanging b4stard voters. A hung parliament is surely the only way for either of them to not get what they want. Both main parties are now dominated by their worst instincts.
    And just to put the icing on the cake... the Libs are really pennies for the swearboxing up the chance to come throught the middle.
    TBF though, there seems to be a whole thing about the middle getting squezed out at the moment, so it's not just their fault.

    It's not getting any less depressing.
    The LibDems have been screwed for years. The two main parties both moved towards the centre and left them with nowhere to stand so they seemingly took outlier positions on a number of topics that didn't form a coherent package.

    As the two main parties are now moving outwards again there is possibly room for a proper centrist party once again. It's something I'd very much like to see.
    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    Well your optimism is not being matched by reality.

    It seems people prefer the idea to the LDs rather than the actual lot; since they've been campaigning the polls have only gone downwards. This something I can rather empathise with; when you meet the rank and file party members....yeah.

    The shape of the ITV debate has not helped, for obvious reasons.
    _
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    Absolutely. That's why i said "a proper centrist party", not "the Lib Dems".
    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    longshot said:

    Absolutely. That's why i said "a proper centrist party", not "the Lib Dems".

    So, which one? The SDP for example? (Yes, they still exist). Except that you might or might not be a fan of Rod Liddle...
    Or Change UK?
    Or will you start one?

    The problem isn't that the parties are following their worst instincts. It's all of us.

    Well obviously not me, and I don't think you either, but clearly all the rest of them. Our entire culture has gone into a tailspin of judging on prejudice, emotion and gut reaction rather than any kind of morals or logic: no surprise that politics is evolving to exploit this.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,148
    rick_chasey said:

    Well your optimism is not being matched by reality.

    It seems people prefer the idea to the LDs rather than the actual lot; since they've been campaigning the polls have only gone downwards. This something I can rather empathise with; when you meet the rank and file party members....yeah.

    The shape of the ITV debate has not helped, for obvious reasons.

    I think the problem is that most people have become indoctrinated into two party politics and that a vote for any other party is a vote for the opposition. If people genuinely thought the Lib Dems could get enough seats to win a majority then more people would probably vote for them. Catch-22 at work! As it stands the thinking in most constituencies seems to be 'it's between the Tories and Labour, I don't like the Tories much but hate Labour even more and if I vote Lib Dem it might hand the seat to Labour' (or vice versa obviously). I still think they can hold the balance of power though and that a Lib / Lab coalition is a very real prospect.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,598
    longshot said:

    bompington said:

    kingstongraham said:

    longshot said:

    Boris, for all the fact that he's unfit to be PM and is a complete 20p for the swearbox has one thing going for him. He's not Jeremy Corbyn.

    This is the problem for non-socialist worker, non-headbanging b4stard voters. A hung parliament is surely the only way for either of them to not get what they want. Both main parties are now dominated by their worst instincts.
    And just to put the icing on the cake... the Libs are really pennies for the swearboxing up the chance to come throught the middle.
    TBF though, there seems to be a whole thing about the middle getting squezed out at the moment, so it's not just their fault.

    It's not getting any less depressing.
    The LibDems have been screwed for years. The two main parties both moved towards the centre and left them with nowhere to stand so they seemingly took outlier positions on a number of topics that didn't form a coherent package.

    As the two main parties are now moving outwards again there is possibly room for a proper centrist party once again. It's something I'd very much like to see.
    Swinson is hardly helping things for the Lib Dems either - you may only be able to read the first couple of paragraphs but that should be enough:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/patronising-low-charisma-high-self-confidencewhat-jo-swinson/
    She needs more airtime :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    That's a bit like posting a link to a Guardian opinion piece to show how bad Johnson is doing.

    I think she does need more air time, but needs to use it wisely. There is no point in her pretending she might be the next PM, but if you like their general direction of travel, and don't like the other two, they can be a moderating voice. They need to be the sensible ones. It feels like they are spending their time mocking both sides, which doesn't seem sensible when their realistic ambition is to work with one of them.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    There is an obvious point that in FPTP, if you are not part of the two incumbents it's very difficult to get into power, and this has vicious circle effect when it comes to the talent available for parties who represent other views.
    _
  • motogull
    motogull Posts: 325
    Is it a given then that Alexander Boris De Piffle Johnson will be returned as an MP?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,598
    motogull said:

    Is it a given then that Alexander Boris De Piffle Johnson will be returned as an MP?

    No, and you can bet you bottom dollar that the lefties will be putting a lot of effort into Uxbridge.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,148
    5,000 majority is pretty safe considering all his faults were pretty well known at the last election.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    Apparently the Conservatives are a bit worried about Raab, and he had a 23,000 majority last time.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,125
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/10/boris-johnson-promise-tax-cut-raise-40p-threshold

    egad! the liar johnson was lying

    wonder when the reactionary relics who swallowed his lies will waken to what a truly loathsome lickspittle he is
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    You do worry, political persuasion aside, that giving the Tories under Bojo a proper majority sets a precedent for leaders to behave in unusually bad fashion.

    It is also a worrying precedent that the scandals he has been implicated in do not seem to matter anymore.

    I get that it's all a means to an end for a lot of people, but just imagine, whatever your persuasion, bojo was on the other side.

    The guy plainly has no real interest in good governance or in being a proper upstanding citizen, which you would hope would be pre-requisites for being PM.
    _
  • motogull
    motogull Posts: 325
    Stevo_666 said:

    No, and you can bet you bottom dollar that the lefties will be putting a lot of effort into Uxbridge.

    I want a hung parliament with the following not being returned as MPs: Johnson, Corbyn, Swinson, Raab, McDonnell, Rees-Mogg, Abbott, Javid. Then the parties have to reset. Get some grown ups in an do it again.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,598
    motogull said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    No, and you can bet you bottom dollar that the lefties will be putting a lot of effort into Uxbridge.

    I want a hung parliament with the following not being returned as MPs: Johnson, Corbyn, Swinson, Raab, McDonnell, Rees-Mogg, Abbott, Javid. Then the parties have to reset. Get some grown ups in an do it again.
    Unfortunately I think doing it again would mean going nowhere again because there would be no majority for anything.

    The level of support for the conservatives could indicate thst a lot of people don't want that.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    43% support means a solid majority don't want them
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,598
    edited November 2019
    kingstongraham said:

    43% support means a solid majority don't want them

    I'm pretty sure a lot of Labour voters want a labour majority not a hung parliament. Which means you are most likely in the minority here. It is only really the centre lefties who realise that a hung parliament is as good as it will get for them.

    But regardless of majority or not, it is not looking much like a hung result at present ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    43% support means a solid majority don't want them

    I'm pretty sure a lot of Labour voters want a labour majority not a hung parliament. Which means you are most likely in the minority here. It is only really the centre lefties who realise that a hung parliament is as good as it will get for them.

    But regardless of majority or not, it is not looking much like a hung result at present ;)
    I'm happy to wait for the results.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    But on topic, Johnson is terrible. He can't abide not being liked, which must be a nightmare for him.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,598
    edited November 2019
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    43% support means a solid majority don't want them

    I'm pretty sure a lot of Labour voters want a labour majority not a hung parliament. Which means you are most likely in the minority here. It is only really the centre lefties who realise that a hung parliament is as good as it will get for them.

    But regardless of majority or not, it is not looking much like a hung result at present ;)
    I'm happy to wait for the results.
    We dont have a lot of choice really.

    But so far so good. I don't see how Corbyn or Swinson can turn it around so it would need to be either a tory screw up or lots of 'shy' labour voters, which is quite a novel concept.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    as an aside (an sorry if this has been covered long long ago!) does anyone know how they collect the data for the polls? where do they ask people?

    i could probably just google it but i'm being lazy!
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    chris_bass said:

    as an aside (an sorry if this has been covered long long ago!) does anyone know how they collect the data for the polls? where do they ask people?

    i could probably just google it but i'm being lazy!

    It varies. In terms of reliability look for large sample sizes or wait until the exit polls then go to bed.

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