May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

tailwindhome

Some threads need merged.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

bompington wrote:

I would have said that there is quite a difference between "browbeating the public into changing their minds" and giving the public the opportunity to either confirm their previous vote or change it, given that it wasn't very clear what they (narrowly*) voted for in the first place.

This is either naive or disingenuous. The vote (and result) were clear - it's the establishment that's failed the people. You don't just keep holding referenda because Westminster and Whitehall flustered because the proles stood up to the for a change.

For the record, I say this as somebody who is ambivalent towards the EU.

You seem to forget that the leave campaign was led by two of the most establishment figures there are.

Brexit goes far deeper than who were the public faces for the campaigns.

It was a case of the downtrodden public being conned into voting to get rid of the downtrodden public supporting EU in favour of the downtrodden public despising establishment.

The country electoral control over UK MP's. We do not have that control of the EU as it is distant and diluted intentionally by design

So how come the country elected a 'remainer parliament' as you like to call it?

All Labour and Tory MP's were elected on manifesto promises that they would respect the referendum result and deliver Brexit and many are on record of saying this. Then once elected they have betrayed those who voted for them by reneging on these promises.

I'm sure them being turncoats is celebrated by yourself but the result of this is Farage's popularity. Let's hope Boris delivers Brexit and removes the need for Farage any more.

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

bompington wrote:

I would have said that there is quite a difference between "browbeating the public into changing their minds" and giving the public the opportunity to either confirm their previous vote or change it, given that it wasn't very clear what they (narrowly*) voted for in the first place.

This is either naive or disingenuous. The vote (and result) were clear - it's the establishment that's failed the people. You don't just keep holding referenda because Westminster and Whitehall flustered because the proles stood up to the for a change.

For the record, I say this as somebody who is ambivalent towards the EU.

You seem to forget that the leave campaign was led by two of the most establishment figures there are.

Brexit goes far deeper than who were the public faces for the campaigns.

It was a case of the downtrodden public being conned into voting to get rid of the downtrodden public supporting EU in favour of the downtrodden public despising establishment.

The country electoral control over UK MP's. We do not have that control of the EU as it is distant and diluted intentionally by design

So how come the country elected a 'remainer parliament' as you like to call it?

All Labour and Tory MP's were elected on manifesto promises that they would respect the referendum result and deliver Brexit and many are on record of saying this. Then once elected they have betrayed those who voted for them by reneging on these promises.

I'm sure them being turncoats is celebrated by yourself but the result of this is Farage's popularity. Let's hope Boris delivers Brexit and removes the need for Farage any more.

Labour MPs were elected on a manifesto that specified membership of the CU. Can't really blame them for voting against if that was not on offer. Only Conservative MPs were elected on the basis of what became May's deal. So why did about 80 of those same MPs vote against their own manifesto and then claim it was everyone else's fault that we haven't left yet?

Out of interest, what did you make of that YouGov poll posted earlier? If you feel like sharing I'd be interested to know how you would have answered.

rick_chasey

darkhairedlord wrote:

This explains everything you need to know about tory party members.

So someone smarter than me has pointed out, if 59% of Tory party members are keen on Brexit even if it means Irish reunification, why do they give a sh!t about the backstop?

orraloon

No way Javid survives. As any fule kno, even the moronic Con job MPs, the loyal party members who make up 0.3% of the electorate who get to decide between the final 2 would view with horror the prospect of a PM of, how shall I put this, Indian subcontinent ethnicity. Reg and Mavis of Clacton ain't 'avin' a redacted for a PM. It ain't what they voted Leave for.

Meanwhile, Con party central continues to stream out to the 'faithful' a torrent of Corbyn is coming for you boxxox. In the past week, I've seen amongst other, Corbyn wants to take your house, he will abolish NATO (quite how one member state could do that, even der Drumpf would struggle with that one), he wants to get rid of the British Army. Oh and seemingly council tax has decreased by 6% since the Cons have been in charge - not according to my direct debit it hasn't. To the neutral, it's pathetic. No doubt Reg and Mavis will be convinced.

Stevo_666

orraloon wrote:

No way Javid survives. As any fule kno, even the moronic Con job MPs, the loyal party members who make up 0.3% of the electorate who get to decide between the final 2 would view with horror the prospect of a PM of, how shall I put this, Indian subcontinent ethnicity. Reg and Mavis of Clacton ain't 'avin' a redacted for a PM. It ain't what they voted Leave for.

Meanwhile, Con party central continues to stream out to the 'faithful' a torrent of Corbyn is coming for you boxxox. In the past week, I've seen amongst other, Corbyn wants to take your house, he will abolish NATO (quite how one member state could do that, even der Drumpf would struggle with that one), he wants to get rid of the British Army. Oh and seemingly council tax has decreased by 6% since the Cons have been in charge - not according to my direct debit it hasn't. To the neutral, it's pathetic. No doubt Reg and Mavis will be convinced.

Party political propaganda aside, it's fair to say that Corbyn would be a disaster for this county. Or are you trying to imply otherwise?

P.S. on the point about 'coming for your house', have a read of Labour's latest ideas on changing IHT. They'll certainly have a good slice of most peoples houses given their new 'lifetime limit' for gifts. Including yours.

orraloon

And how do you feel about the actual, not hypothetical, Tory probate tax rate hike?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... fees-hike/

A standard piece of paper for a standard bit of admin costs more or less depending on estate value. Conniving Cons.

rjsterry

Back to the hustings for a moment: Javid has just succeeded in bouncing the other 4 candidates into supporting an external review of Islamophobia within the party. At least one good thing from all this.

Stevo_666

orraloon wrote:

And how do you feel about the actual, not hypothetical, Tory probate tax rate hike?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... fees-hike/

A standard piece of paper for a standard bit of admin costs more or less depending on estate value. Conniving Cons.

Peanuts by comparison. And taking into account the increase in thresholds over the recent years, that cost is more than offset for many.

So will you vote for a party that will tax any gifts over £125k made in your lifetime? Never mind just when you die. May as well go p1ss it up the wall unless you can find a way round it, which I am more likely to do than most

Jez mon

rjsterry wrote:

Back to the hustings for a moment: Javid has just succeeded in bouncing the other 4 candidates into supporting an external review of Islamophobia within the party. At least one good thing from all this.

They looked like the world's crappest westlife tribute on those bloody stools.

rick_chasey

About as inspiring as walking into the office can moments after the office fat man has just finished his Friday morning movements.

FocusZing

Rick Chasey wrote:

About as inspiring as walking into the office can moments after the office fat man has just finished his Friday morning movements.

Sure. I can't imagine anybody else being any better though.

robert88

FocusZing wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

About as inspiring as walking into the office can moments after the office fat man has just finished his Friday morning movements.

Sure. I can't imagine anybody else being any better though.

Michael Crawford?

rick_chasey

FocusZing wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

About as inspiring as walking into the office can moments after the office fat man has just finished his Friday morning movements.

Sure. I can't imagine anybody else being any better though.

You must agree that there has been a marked degradation in the quality of the PM over the past 20 years.

FocusZing

Rick Chasey wrote:

FocusZing wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

About as inspiring as walking into the office can moments after the office fat man has just finished his Friday morning movements.

Sure. I can't imagine anybody else being any better though.

You must agree that there has been a marked degradation in the quality of the PM over the past 20 years.

I don't think we saw a leader there, but that applies to the other parties too.

Stevo_666

FocusZing wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

FocusZing wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

About as inspiring as walking into the office can moments after the office fat man has just finished his Friday morning movements.

Sure. I can't imagine anybody else being any better though.

You must agree that there has been a marked degradation in the quality of the PM over the past 20 years.

I don't think we saw a leader there, but that applies to the other parties too.

The other parties are hardly offering us credible alternatives.

sgt.pepper

Rolf F wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

bompington wrote:

I would have said that there is quite a difference between "browbeating the public into changing their minds" and giving the public the opportunity to either confirm their previous vote or change it, given that it wasn't very clear what they (narrowly*) voted for in the first place.

This is either naive or disingenuous. The vote (and result) were clear - it's the establishment that's failed the people. You don't just keep holding referenda because Westminster and Whitehall flustered because the proles stood up to the for a change.

For the record, I say this as somebody who is ambivalent towards the EU.

You seem to forget that the leave campaign was led by two of the most establishment figures there are.

Brexit goes far deeper than who were the public faces for the campaigns.

It was a case of the downtrodden public being conned into voting to get rid of the downtrodden public supporting EU in favour of the downtrodden public despising establishment. The reason they got conned was down to the public faces. It will go down as one of the biggest own goals in history.

EU officials are just as contemptuous of the unwashed masses as Parliament is - one of the reasons the Right is on the rise across the continent. Same reason so many 'Muricans voted for the likes of Trump.

By the way, I don't think leaving the EU solves all of the UK's problems. Yes, it would give Britain control of its own borders again, but that's about it.

rjsterry

Just watching Nick Watt's post hustings interviews of some of the candidates. Refreshing honesty that it didn't go as well as hoped from Stewart. Javid cheerful and enjoying himself. Gove claiming he won it - oh, sweetheart...

Johnson already starting to water down his 'out by 31st October, come what may' and his higher rate tax break, and you can see why he's been kept out of the media.

bompington

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

By the way, I don't think leaving the EU solves all of the UK's problems. Yes, it would give Britain control of its own borders again, but that's about it.

Still amazes me that we have got to the stage where it's not so much that the idea that leaving the EU solves any of Britain's problems has gained any traction, but that the majority of brexiteers seem to know perfectly well it won't, but still seem to revel in it with a weird sort of masochisitc pride.

bompington

Speaks volumes that this thread has now completely become YABT (yet another brexit thread), since that's all politics is now, particularly for the tories.

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

By the way, I don't think leaving the EU solves all of the UK's problems. Yes, it would give Britain control of its own borders again, but that's about it.

Still amazes me that we have got to the stage where it's not so much that the idea that leaving the EU solves any of Britain's problems has gained any traction, but that the majority of brexiteers seem to know perfectly well it won't, but still seem to revel in it with a weird sort of masochisitc pride.

The virus has truly taken over the host.

The Conservatives have mainly survived by being that, conservative, and in the face of radical changes (emancipation, NHS etc) have generally either internalised the changes and vowed to moderate them or to do a more moderate form themselves. Now they’re revolutionaries willing to sacrifice all for the cause.

I’m sympathetic to the argument it all changed with Thatcher and this is the consequences of those decisions coming home to roost 30-40 years later, but it obviously doesn’t explain it all.

Stevo_666

bompington wrote:

Speaks volumes that this thread has now completely become YABT (yet another brexit thread), since that's all politics is now, particularly for the tories.

Are you saying there are too many political threads in Cake Stop? :shock:

Maybe they should all be consolidated into one big political whinging thread, in the same way that all the 'girls' threads were merged a few years ago.

rolf_f

Stevo 666 wrote:

orraloon wrote:

No way Javid survives. As any fule kno, even the moronic Con job MPs, the loyal party members who make up 0.3% of the electorate who get to decide between the final 2 would view with horror the prospect of a PM of, how shall I put this, Indian subcontinent ethnicity. Reg and Mavis of Clacton ain't 'avin' a redacted for a PM. It ain't what they voted Leave for.

Meanwhile, Con party central continues to stream out to the 'faithful' a torrent of Corbyn is coming for you boxxox. In the past week, I've seen amongst other, Corbyn wants to take your house, he will abolish NATO (quite how one member state could do that, even der Drumpf would struggle with that one), he wants to get rid of the British Army. Oh and seemingly council tax has decreased by 6% since the Cons have been in charge - not according to my direct debit it hasn't. To the neutral, it's pathetic. No doubt Reg and Mavis will be convinced.

Party political propaganda aside, it's fair to say that Corbyn would be a disaster for this county. Or are you trying to imply otherwise?

Yeah, but you see we have got used to having PMs that are a disaster for the country; we are just about to get our third one running. What makes you think we wouldn't like to try a more left wing way of wrecking the country, just for a bit of variety? I like a nice Blue/Red balance to my national scale disasters.

rick_chasey

Stevo - which would you think is worse - Corbyn PM or no deal Brexit?

Pross

Rolf F wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

orraloon wrote:

No way Javid survives. As any fule kno, even the moronic Con job MPs, the loyal party members who make up 0.3% of the electorate who get to decide between the final 2 would view with horror the prospect of a PM of, how shall I put this, Indian subcontinent ethnicity. Reg and Mavis of Clacton ain't 'avin' a redacted for a PM. It ain't what they voted Leave for.

Meanwhile, Con party central continues to stream out to the 'faithful' a torrent of Corbyn is coming for you boxxox. In the past week, I've seen amongst other, Corbyn wants to take your house, he will abolish NATO (quite how one member state could do that, even der Drumpf would struggle with that one), he wants to get rid of the British Army. Oh and seemingly council tax has decreased by 6% since the Cons have been in charge - not according to my direct debit it hasn't. To the neutral, it's pathetic. No doubt Reg and Mavis will be convinced.

Party political propaganda aside, it's fair to say that Corbyn would be a disaster for this county. Or are you trying to imply otherwise?

Yeah, but you see we have got used to having PMs that are a disaster for the country; we are just about to get our third one running. What makes you think we wouldn't like to try a more left wing way of wrecking the country, just for a bit of variety? I like a nice Blue/Red balance to my national scale disasters.

Um, we're on our 4th at least. Other than one catastrophic policy I would argue did a better job at a very difficult time than Brown did in his short tenure.

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo - which would you think is worse - Corbyn PM or no deal Brexit?

Why choose? We're probably going to get both unless Corbyn gets ousted.

bianchimoon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo - which would you think is worse - Corbyn PM or no deal Brexit?

You serious? If you’d have given him a choice of complete thermonuclear destruction of the U.K. or Corbyn you might get an answer other than corbyn

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo - which would you think is worse - Corbyn PM or no deal Brexit?

A bit defeatist to assume we must have one of those, and there's a possibility that Corbyn continues to sit on the fence, leaving us in a neither in nor out limbo, which is pretty damaging in itself. On the other hand we'd only have to put up with a maximum of 5 years of him. I fear the latter would take longer to reverse.

rick_chasey

It’s hypothetical but I just wonder how apocalyptic he sees Corbyn and what the justification for that is.

vinnymarsden

Someone sad to me yesterday...and this was, until the conversation , a person who's opinion I valued...I think Boris will be a good PM..he shakes things up..it will be a laugh!!
Now if I want a laughI watch my old Phoenix Nights DVDs, I wouldn't in all honesty expect the PM to be the person I would turn to for my comedic entertainment quota per se, albeit the "dancing queen" has made me smile many times!!
Joking aside..is this what people have allowed themselves to start to think? IT WILL BE A LAUGH!!!
Oh it will be a laugh alright when we are shafted every which way but loose, because as far as I see it, and I have no real interest at all, but my thought is simply that whoever gets the job only wants the power, not the actual " Making the country BETTER" bollocks that they all keep spouting!
If I were a gambling man I would be at the bookies putting a wedge on a further extension, because the can has been lined up to be kicked further down the road until the country (that's us the great unwashed) just lose interest and it simply dies a death and the political elite/Iluminati, call them what you will, get back to running things how they want.
And death by a thousand cuts to ANY academic (insert Cameron here) who raises the word referendum ever again!!!!!