May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Matthewfalle

she has finally announced she is going.

where does this leave it all.

discuss.

bompington

Who knows? But one thing's for sure, it doesn't leave us better off.

robert88

So what month is this now then?

Anyway, whilst I dislike her, I think 'witch' is perhaps harsh especially as her spell in power didn't work out.

Ben6899

Robert88 wrote:

So what month is this now then?

Anyway, whilst I dislike her, I think 'witch' is perhaps harsh especially as her spell in power didn't work out.

Her voting history is deplorable though.

rjsterry

bompington wrote:

Who knows? But one thing's for sure, it doesn't leave us better off.

Indeed. Adrift would be my answer.

shirley_basso

This from BBC comments:

Her 3 year legacy:

Inherited the first Conservative election majority since 1992. Called an unnecessary election and lost the majority.

Her flagship policy suffered a record defeat in the Commons.

40 ministers resign from her government.

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Huge losses at council and European elections.


And the positives:

None.

Pross

It's a mess. A pointless referendum that very few people wanted in order to tried to fix internal divisions within a political party and all it has achieved is to make those Party divisions even wider whilst also splitting the general population that previously weren't bothered. You have to be either mad or a narcissist (or both) to want to take on the leadership in the current situation so there won't be a shortage of applicants.

bompington

Shirley Basso wrote:

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Was it really May who caused this? Sure, she didn't do anything to make it better, but I'm not even convinced that she is the one responsible for making it worse - the blame for that lies with everyone who has done or said anything to polarise and inflame the debate: particularly, I would say, "othering" the other side.

Which, if we're being honest, is most of us at least some of the time: but some are far more guilty than others.

kingstongraham

bompington wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Was it really May who caused this? Sure, she didn't do anything to make it better, but I'm not even convinced that she is the one responsible for making it worse - the blame for that lies with everyone who has done or said anything to polarise and inflame the debate: particularly, I would say, "othering" the other side.

Which, if we're being honest, is most of us at least some of the time: but some are far more guilty than others.

Yes, I blame that lot.

shirley_basso

Did you watch the channel 4 mini-film about the brexit campaign with Benedict Cumberbatch?

Fascinating and terrifying

Matthewfalle

Shirley Basso wrote:

This from BBC comments:

Her 3 year legacy:

Inherited the first Conservative election majority since 1992. Called an unnecessary election and lost the majority.

Her flagship policy suffered a record defeat in the Commons.

40 ministers resign from her government.

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Huge losses at council and European elections.


And the positives:

None.

in addition .....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... esignation

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Was it really May who caused this? Sure, she didn't do anything to make it better, but I'm not even convinced that she is the one responsible for making it worse - the blame for that lies with everyone who has done or said anything to polarise and inflame the debate: particularly, I would say, "othering" the other side.

Which, if we're being honest, is most of us at least some of the time: but some are far more guilty than others.

If she'd flexed on the free movement of labour issue I reckon she'd have had a better than evens to get it through parliament...

veronese68

rjsterry wrote:

bompington wrote:

Who knows? But one thing's for sure, it doesn't leave us better off.

Indeed. Adrift would be my answer.

Unfortunately I believe this to be true.

tangled_metal

Didn't she announce she'd be leaving before? I know that was an attempt at bribing MPs to vote for the WA by saying she'd quit when it hit through but it did mean she was still on her way out. She was pretty much dead politically then. As with Brexit she dragged it out a bit too long.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

bompington wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Was it really May who caused this? Sure, she didn't do anything to make it better, but I'm not even convinced that she is the one responsible for making it worse - the blame for that lies with everyone who has done or said anything to polarise and inflame the debate: particularly, I would say, "othering" the other side.

Which, if we're being honest, is most of us at least some of the time: but some are far more guilty than others.

If she'd flexed on the free movement of labour issue I reckon she'd have had a better than evens to get it through parliament...

should have figured out her plan before triggering A50, then would have realised ERG were the problem not the solution which would have meant building consensus in the middle.

homers_double

Her job was no doubt the worst of all and whatever she did there will always be haters.

Adrift is a pretty good description of where we are now.

john80

Rick Chasey wrote:

bompington wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Was it really May who caused this? Sure, she didn't do anything to make it better, but I'm not even convinced that she is the one responsible for making it worse - the blame for that lies with everyone who has done or said anything to polarise and inflame the debate: particularly, I would say, "othering" the other side.

Which, if we're being honest, is most of us at least some of the time: but some are far more guilty than others.

If she'd flexed on the free movement of labour issue I reckon she'd have had a better than evens to get it through parliament...

I am actually curious in terms of how far you are willing to take this. So she agrees to pay into the EU for trade, agrees free movement of people, agrees to a customs union where we can't then control our trade policy with nations outside the EU. The reason we have got to this point is that a large majority of pro remain MP's thought the answer was to continue to compromise till the point we had even less control that at present. That is a deal that Rodders would be proud of.

rick_chasey

john80 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

bompington wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Caused irreconcilable differences and nastiness in the country.

Was it really May who caused this? Sure, she didn't do anything to make it better, but I'm not even convinced that she is the one responsible for making it worse - the blame for that lies with everyone who has done or said anything to polarise and inflame the debate: particularly, I would say, "othering" the other side.

Which, if we're being honest, is most of us at least some of the time: but some are far more guilty than others.

If she'd flexed on the free movement of labour issue I reckon she'd have had a better than evens to get it through parliament...

I am actually curious in terms of how far you are willing to take this. So she agrees to pay into the EU for trade, agrees free movement of people, agrees to a customs union where we can't then control our trade policy with nations outside the EU. The reason we have got to this point is that a large majority of pro remain MP's thought the answer was to continue to compromise till the point we had even less control that at present. That is a deal that Rodders would be proud of.

Well that was the Brexit that was campaigned on by the main leave protagonists. Given that fact, and the result of the referendum, surely that is the only Brexit that actually has a mandate?

rick_chasey

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-pr ... eferendum/

here, about half way down, Brexit does not mean leaving the single market is said explicit by Gove, Johnson and Hannan and even Aaron Banks and Farage talk about the "Norway option" in the campaign.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

here, about half way down, Brexit does not mean leaving the single market is said explicit by Gove, Johnson and Hannan and even Aaron Banks and Farage talk about the "Norway option" in the campaign.

The argument is that May then called a GE with a manifesto containing a different version of Brexit. The result of that GE provided a mandate - albeit a weak one - for the that different version of Brexit.

robert88

"Brexit meant MyExit" the Musical

By Cameron and May.

kingstongraham

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

here, about half way down, Brexit does not mean leaving the single market is said explicit by Gove, Johnson and Hannan and even Aaron Banks and Farage talk about the "Norway option" in the campaign.

The argument is that May then called a GE with a manifesto containing a different version of Brexit. The result of that GE provided a mandate - albeit a weak one - for the that different version of Brexit.

How close does the manifesto come to the withdrawal agreement?

chris_bass

remainers did say that brexit would lead to job losses

rjsterry

KingstonGraham wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

here, about half way down, Brexit does not mean leaving the single market is said explicit by Gove, Johnson and Hannan and even Aaron Banks and Farage talk about the "Norway option" in the campaign.

The argument is that May then called a GE with a manifesto containing a different version of Brexit. The result of that GE provided a mandate - albeit a weak one - for the that different version of Brexit.

How close does the manifesto come to the withdrawal agreement?

I'll admit to not having done a line by line comparison.

mamil314

Reported thread title, I don't believe this forum needs to cater to this.

shirley_basso

What? Faux outrage much?

Matthewfalle

thread title changed because Mamil felt OUTRAGE

#anger
#freespeech
#we'renotallTories

First.Aspect

mamil314 wrote:

Reported thread title, I don't believe this forum needs to cater to this.

are you seriously objecting to "ding dong the witch is gone"?

It's the word "dong" isn't it, because it could mean penis?

rjsterry

Matthewfalle wrote:

thread title changed because Mamil felt OUTRAGE

#anger
#freespeech
#we'renotallTories

Having a Yaxley-Lennon moment there, MF?

DeVlaeminck

I can understand where May was coming from, she seemed to see herself as a kind of unifying leader in the middle of two extremes but it's been clear for a while she was unwilling or incapable of building a majority around any kind of way forward and she's really just been slowing down progress. Of course depending on our destination we may end up wishing progress had been slowed even more but she's overstayed her welcome and I doubt many from any political perspective will think she should stay.

Hard to really feel much about her going as there is so little certainty as to where we go now.

robert88

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I can understand where May was coming from, she seemed to see herself as a kind of unifying leader in the middle of two extremes but it's been clear for a while she was unwilling or incapable of building a majority around any kind of way forward and she's really just been slowing down progress. Of course depending on our destination we may end up wishing progress had been slowed even more but she's overstayed her welcome and I doubt many from any political perspective will think she should stay.

Hard to really feel much about her going as there is so little certainty as to where we go now.

Yes, there's no question you knew where you stood when May was at the helm.