May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

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  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    Rational and joined up thinking seems to be missing in the above
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    Sir Kenneth Clarke and Sir Chris Pattern are both supporting Rory Stewart. He seems to the only realist who understands both public divisions need to be appeased.

    Aw diddums, the remoaners favourite is out. There will be lots of bed wetting tonight :lol:

    I am actually disapppointed about this as I wanted him in the final 2 so that Conservative members could send him to a crushing defeat against Boris and realign remainer MP's, just as the Brexit Party have, as to how out of touch they are with their electorate.

    Yeah, he didn't do well last night. He fell on his ar5e when Emily kept pushing him with the fact his plan was May's deal which had been rejected three times. He just didn't have the response.

    I guess you're for Boris?

    I want a reason to vote for the Conservatives as they are my natural home.

    Personally, I thought Raab was the best candidate as he would have delivered Brexit but he does not have the grandeur that would be enough to challenge Farage and stop Corbyn getting into power. So for the Tories, Boris is the best candidate as he would be the best front man for them and that is what they need right now.

    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.

    I fear you are in for disappointment. He doesn't keep any of his promises. He probably will win with party members despite more than half of the parliamentary party wanting someone else. But then what?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    Sir Kenneth Clarke and Sir Chris Pattern are both supporting Rory Stewart. He seems to the only realist who understands both public divisions need to be appeased.

    Aw diddums, the remoaners favourite is out. There will be lots of bed wetting tonight :lol:

    I am actually disapppointed about this as I wanted him in the final 2 so that Conservative members could send him to a crushing defeat against Boris and realign remainer MP's, just as the Brexit Party have, as to how out of touch they are with their electorate.

    Yeah, he didn't do well last night. He fell on his ar5e when Emily kept pushing him with the fact his plan was May's deal which had been rejected three times. He just didn't have the response.

    I guess you're for Boris?

    I want a reason to vote for the Conservatives as they are my natural home.

    Personally, I thought Raab was the best candidate as he would have delivered Brexit but he does not have the grandeur that would be enough to challenge Farage and stop Corbyn getting into power. So for the Tories, Boris is the best candidate as he would be the best front man for them and that is what they need right now.

    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.

    I fear you are in for disappointment. He doesn't keep any of his promises. He probably will win with party members despite more than half of the parliamentary party wanting someone else. But then what?

    It is more likely you will be disappointed, not me, if this is what little hope you are hanging onto.

    If Boris does not deliver on 31st October, the Conservative party is toast and they all know that. The popularity of Boris is because the MP's know he is their only hope of saving the party.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    If Boris does not deliver on 31st October, the Conservative party is toast and they all know that.

    You say that like it's a bad thing ;)

    More seriously, that would be a shame. Boris is clearly one of the candidates who didn't commit to Hammond's deficit reduction pledge. He put taxes up while mayor and now he's making promises that would require more borrowing (in as much as his promises mean anything). Who's going to be the party of fiscal responsibility then?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    What's more likely to kill the tory party.

    A version of no deal Brexit that goes horrifically wrong.

    Missing a made up arbitrary deadline, before somehow getting a good brexit.

    Funily enough, the only party that would definitely die a death in either scenario is the Brexit party.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    edited June 2019
    This is amusing.
    Julian Knight MP
    (@julianknight15)
    A @BorisJohnson premiership would I believe supercharge animal welfare that is a big tick for me! https://t.co/nGwnGj7sWt

    June 19, 2019

    Supercharge animal welfare? Just what has Johnson been promising to MPs in those one to one conversations?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    We seem to be descending to deeper realms of madness
    Melanie Phillips@MelanieLatest

    As Rory Stewart is revealed plotting with Gove: 'My sources tell me that Michael Gove is the favoured Trojan Horse of civil servants who wish to keep a Brexiteer out of Number 10'
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    TailWindHome wrote:
    We seem to be descending to deeper realms of madness
    Melanie Phillips@MelanieLatest

    As Rory Stewart is revealed plotting with Gove: 'My sources tell me that Michael Gove is the favoured Trojan Horse of civil servants who wish to keep a Brexiteer out of Number 10'

    She does appear to have gone full tinfoil.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Anyone familiar with bed wetting will know that the risk factors - for example low socioeconomic status, parental education level, low IQ - correlate pretty strongly with leave voting.

    But that apart, as someone who has many times had to deal with violent and disturbed teenage bedwetters, I find its use as a puerile insult says nothing beyond how contemptible the user is.
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo - which would you think is worse - Corbyn PM or no deal Brexit?
    Tricky one that - as both bad but in different ways and potentially different timescales. Country-wise and longer term, it might depend whether a Corbyn government was a one off or not. For me personally and shorter term - Corbyn is definitely the worse option IMO.

    Yeah. This is ultimately the logic that will bring about a bad Brexit.

    Corbyn is bad but he really won't be given enough rope to do anything he really wants to. Unless you're in the business of running a utility and don't own any shares.....

    What is it that Corbyn do that will be more costly than a calamitous Brexit outcome?

    Well they're eating their pets in Venezuela. Isn't that where these sort of governments tend to end up?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    rjsterry wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    We seem to be descending to deeper realms of madness
    Melanie Phillips@MelanieLatest

    As Rory Stewart is revealed plotting with Gove: 'My sources tell me that Michael Gove is the favoured Trojan Horse of civil servants who wish to keep a Brexiteer out of Number 10'

    She does appear to have gone full tinfoil.


    Now here's a question :lol:
    @PeterKGeoghegan

    If Gove isn’t a Brexiter then how many of the 52% ‘aren’t Brexiters’ either? Is this not an implicit recognition that the vision of Brexit being pushed through, whatever it is, is not ‘the will of the people’?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    rjsterry wrote:
    This is amusing.
    Julian Knight MP
    (@julianknight15)
    A @BorisJohnson premiership would I believe supercharge animal welfare that is a big tick for me! https://t.co/nGwnGj7sWt

    June 19, 2019

    Supercharge animal welfare? Just what has Johnson been promising to MPs in those one to one conversations?

    Boris will have Venezuela's PM on speed dial then.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    bompington wrote:
    contemptible
    Really not sure he's worth the effort, Bomp. Pity might be more appropriate.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    bompington wrote:
    Anyone familiar with bed wetting will know that the risk factors - for example low socioeconomic status, parental education level, low IQ - correlate pretty strongly with leave voting.

    But that apart, as someone who has many times had to deal with violent and disturbed teenage bedwetters, I find its use as a puerile insult says nothing beyond how contemptible the user is.


    It’s 50/50 if he even knows what it means tbf
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.

    This is now one of the key aims for a lot of those engaged with politics on the right, both here and in the USA. Anything is acceptable as long as you own the libs. It's football fan politics.
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    Sir Kenneth Clarke and Sir Chris Pattern are both supporting Rory Stewart. He seems to the only realist who understands both public divisions need to be appeased.

    Aw diddums, the remoaners favourite is out. There will be lots of bed wetting tonight :lol:

    I am actually disapppointed about this as I wanted him in the final 2 so that Conservative members could send him to a crushing defeat against Boris and realign remainer MP's, just as the Brexit Party have, as to how out of touch they are with their electorate.

    Yeah, he didn't do well last night. He fell on his ar5e when Emily kept pushing him with the fact his plan was May's deal which had been rejected three times. He just didn't have the response.

    I guess you're for Boris?

    I want a reason to vote for the Conservatives as they are my natural home.

    Personally, I thought Raab was the best candidate as he would have delivered Brexit but he does not have the grandeur that would be enough to challenge Farage and stop Corbyn getting into power. So for the Tories, Boris is the best candidate as he would be the best front man for them and that is what they need right now.

    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.


    The bedwetters?

    Do you mean Trump's Russian prostitutes? Have you got something on Boris I haven't heard? I wouldn't be surprised, mind.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,430
    he means brexiters, they're always whining that their situation is someone else's fault
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.

    This is now one of the key aims for a lot of those engaged with politics on the right, both here and in the USA. Anything is acceptable as long as you own the libs. It's football fan politics.

    This is a situation solely created by those on the losing side.

    The losers refusal to accept and their attempts to undermine the result in any way possible, with the losers seeing nothing as off limits to achieve their aim, has meant the winners have tired of trying to bring the losers along with them and the winners are now treating the losers with the disdain they deserve.

    The losers have now opened a Pandora's box with their attitude and when they do win something, as they surely will at some point, they have set the precedent of how the losers should act. The losers have removed the respect and civility when losing electoral outcomes.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    This is a situation solely created by those on the losing side.

    The losers refusal to accept and their attempts to undermine the result in any way possible, with the losers seeing nothing as off limits to achieve their aim, has meant the winners have tired of trying to bring the losers along with them and the winners are now treating the losers with the disdain they deserve.

    The losers have now opened a Pandora's box with their attitude and when they do win something, as they surely will at some point, they have set the precedent of how the losers should act. The losers have removed the respect and civility when losing electoral outcomes.

    I think you can make a case that it's OK to say that if people have voted, say, for the government to buy a unicorn for every child, then you should perhaps hesitate before letting them hand over the cash.

    But even if we discount that idea, surely you agree that it is acceptable to try and persuade people to change their minds?
    Or should it be that if you lose a vote, you should shut up and go away?

    How come Farage has stood for parliament 7 times?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.

    This is now one of the key aims for a lot of those engaged with politics on the right, both here and in the USA. Anything is acceptable as long as you own the libs. It's football fan politics.

    This is a situation solely created by those on the losing side.

    The losers refusal to accept and their attempts to undermine the result in any way possible, with the losers seeing nothing as off limits to achieve their aim, has meant the winners have tired of trying to bring the losers along with them and the winners are now treating the losers with the disdain they deserve.

    The losers have now opened a Pandora's box with their attitude and when they do win something, as they surely will at some point, they have set the precedent of how the losers should act. The losers have removed the respect and civility when losing electoral outcomes.

    Absolutely not - but you're insistence on seeing your side as needing to win, and the other side as needing to lose is exactly what the issue I was talking about. You need to feel like the other side have lost, regardless of what the impact on anybody is. It must provide validation in some way.

    In the USA, "owning the libs" doesn't have a lot to do with Brexit.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    john80 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    No deal Brexit is pretty much as bad as it can realistically get, so anything that isn't that isn't as bad.

    Corbyn is obviously challenging for someone who's entire career has been based on serving the City, and I don't think his solutions actually solve the problems he's rightly highlighted.

    But what he'd realistically be able to do is nowhere near as bad as crashing out of the EU > it would take years just to recover from the shock and I'd rather not have navigate various shortages with a little one; all the formula we have, for example, isn't manufactured in the UK, and so if that was caught up in the border transit problems I'd be in a tricky situation....

    Yeah I can see those multinational companies taking a don't plan type of attitude to see just how much market share they can lose when they can't supply shops with their products. Or alternatively they will do some stockpiling, maybe even some consideration for manufacturing in the UK and see their business continue pretty much as normal. Keep calm until the riots over baby formula come to fruition. If you are a cyclist you might need to bulk up the top half for the apocalypse when we resort to bare knuckle fighting for everyday essentials.

    :roll:

    You don't believe all the analysis that suggests genuine problems with imports in the event of no deal, nor do you believe the stories that only a small proportion of firms have actually prepared for Brexit?

    Have I understood correctly? I wasn't really talking about riots, though it is the civil service themselves who have suggested using martial law....
    The civil service has drawn up plans for the introduction of martial law in the event of a chaotic no-deal Brexit, it has been reported.
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... cy-no-deal

    Baby formula is a poor example. It is long shelf life and likely to mainly be brought in by container and therefore could come from any factory in the world. Brexit is not going to shut down container ports as what the UK imports is actually under its control when it lands. Going the other way to Europe is a different question and for sure there may well be some issues. Another poster has given you a UK equivalent and you have shot this down. Are you sure you don't have a tin foil hat or a penchant for the overly dramatic.

    On the question of firms planning for Brexit I would refer you to the last time companies managed for the leaving on the 29th of March. They closed factories for early maintenance or refurb or stockpiled and then some plonkers seemingly were unable to leave the UK. How many times would you have them plan for a Brexit of a form that no one can seemingly predict.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.

    This is now one of the key aims for a lot of those engaged with politics on the right, both here and in the USA. Anything is acceptable as long as you own the libs. It's football fan politics.

    This is a situation solely created by those on the losing side.

    The losers refusal to accept and their attempts to undermine the result in any way possible, with the losers seeing nothing as off limits to achieve their aim, has meant the winners have tired of trying to bring the losers along with them and the winners are now treating the losers with the disdain they deserve.

    The losers have now opened a Pandora's box with their attitude and when they do win something, as they surely will at some point, they have set the precedent of how the losers should act. The losers have removed the respect and civility when losing electoral outcomes.

    Absolutely not - but you're insistence on seeing your side as needing to win, and the other side as needing to lose is exactly what the issue I was talking about. You need to feel like the other side have lost, regardless of what the impact on anybody is. It must provide validation in some way.

    In the USA, "owning the libs" doesn't have a lot to do with Brexit.

    You are a hypocrite.

    Had remain got the majority in the referendum the would have won and we would not be "soft" leaving the EU.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Boris also annoys the bed wetters and that will be so enjoyable to witness as they whinge their way through their miserable lives.

    This is now one of the key aims for a lot of those engaged with politics on the right, both here and in the USA. Anything is acceptable as long as you own the libs. It's football fan politics.

    This is a situation solely created by those on the losing side.

    The losers refusal to accept and their attempts to undermine the result in any way possible, with the losers seeing nothing as off limits to achieve their aim, has meant the winners have tired of trying to bring the losers along with them and the winners are now treating the losers with the disdain they deserve.

    The losers have now opened a Pandora's box with their attitude and when they do win something, as they surely will at some point, they have set the precedent of how the losers should act. The losers have removed the respect and civility when losing electoral outcomes.

    Absolutely not - but you're insistence on seeing your side as needing to win, and the other side as needing to lose is exactly what the issue I was talking about. You need to feel like the other side have lost, regardless of what the impact on anybody is. It must provide validation in some way.

    In the USA, "owning the libs" doesn't have a lot to do with Brexit.

    You are a hypocrite.

    Had remain got the majority in the referendum the would have won and we would not be "soft" leaving the EU.

    That's one for the Brexit thread.

    But my grammar was terrible, for that I apologise.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    Back in the Brexit thread, I agree with this guy: "I see a very close vote with no side getting more than 55%. A second vote will be pushed by the remainers (entirely fair with a vote that close)"
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    We now have a situation where Raab and others are publicly backing Johnson because he definitely will get us out by 31st October, and George Osborne and others publicly backing him because he probably won't.

    I suspect George knows Boris better than Dominic.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    BJ 157
    MG 61
    JH 59
    SJ 34

    SJ out
    2 spoiled votes
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    TailWindHome wrote:

    2 spoiled votes

    Rory?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:

    2 spoiled votes

    Rory?

    Ken Clarke?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Surprised anyone is still fighting it, the only chance of the next PM not being Boris was the MPs making sure he wasn't in the final two and it has been obvious from the first round that wasn't going to happen. I'm hoping many of the MPs supporting him are doing so knowing it will kill his political career once and for all.
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    I'm surprised how un-forward thinking those MPs voting for Gove or Hunt are. Both are hated by huge segments of the public and both are unelectable when it comes to the next general election. Yes, we vote for MPs, but people always have an eye on who will be PM.

    When Labour chose Ed Milliband it was the same thing, it was immediately and blatantly obvious that was no way they would win a general election with him.

    Anyway, it looks like they will avoid ending up Gove or Hunt anyway, but it goes to show how out of touch so many MPs are.

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