Wife of ISIS fighter wants to return to the UK

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Comments

  • UK citizen Radicalised in the UK; our problem.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.
  • Imposter wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.
    ISIS get better outfits. Fact.
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    So we have terrorist sympathisers within the cycling community now.

    Great going on taking this site to a new low with your idiotic and dangerous views.

    Crikey! I'll have to re-read the thread and find the people who said they agreed with her ideology, must have missed that one!
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Ben6899 wrote:
    She has no right of entry so how would you propose they do that? Under which authority would that happen? And as a matter of who's opinon is more valid I would remind you that I live in the UK whereas you do not. The good news though is that there is one possible route to Belgian Citizinship through her terrorist husband and the right to a family life and their child with the bonus of free movement

    No doubt you would be happy to have her and her kind (terrorists and their supporters) living in your neighbourhood.

    Rick lives in the UK.
    Her husband is Dutch.
    It's spelt citizenship.

    There’s so much wrong in Alejandro’s post it’s hard to know where to start tbh.

    Though he seems to be weirdly familiar with me given he joined the forum two days ago.

    becuse its another multiple log in thing. you can tell by her/his other posts.

    however, you are correct in you review of her/his post.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Imposter wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.
    ISIS get better outfits. Fact.

    and they hve cool Hi-Luxs

    FACT
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Imposter wrote:
    So we have terrorist sympathisers within the cycling community now.

    What? We can't have that. Name and shame these dangerous individuals now..!

    no - we have some wishy washey lib dems and some right wing bigots and a hell of a lot of boring clubbies but no terrorist sympathisers in this forum as far as I can tell.

    tbh, there probably are some in the cycling community - its quite big. Martin McGuinness and that beardy bloke with glasses he hung about with probably rode bikes at some time.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Imposter wrote:
    So we have terrorist sympathisers within the cycling community now.

    What? We can't have that. Name and shame these dangerous individuals now..!

    no - we have some wishy washey lib dems and some right wing bigots and a hell of a lot of boring clubbies but no terrorist sympathisers in this forum as far as I can tell.

    tbh, there probably are some in the cycling community - its quite big. Martin McGuinness and that beardy bloke with glasses he hung about with probably rode bikes at some time.

    He is the leader of the Labour Party and definitely rides bikes
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479
    Imposter wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.

    I don't disagree with you but purely in legal terms I suspect it would make an important difference that one is a proscribed organisation and the other isn't.
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Imposter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    The racist gammons will remember him for standing firm and expelling an undesirable.

    FTFY. The rest of us will just see it as a pathetic attempt to placate the increasingly bigoted and nationalistic right wing in the UK..

    That's exactly how I see it. And I am no sympathiser for ISIS or Daesh or whatever they like to call themselves.

    Javid is pandering to the worst in us.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,585
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.

    I don't disagree with you but purely in legal terms I suspect it would make an important difference that one is a proscribed organisation and the other isn't.

    You know the point I was making, right?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.

    I don't disagree with you but purely in legal terms I suspect it would make an important difference that one is a proscribed organisation and the other isn't.

    Regardless of their relative legal status - I was originally talking about their ideologies being fundamentally the same, in response to another opinion arguing that they were different.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,674
    Well, it's gone 6pm GMT. Is Imposter still with us?

    Edit: ^ There's my answer.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    orraloon wrote:
    Well, it's gone 6pm GMT. Is Imposter still with us?

    Edit: ^ There's my answer.

    Still here. Not quite sure precisely what was supposed to happen at 6pm, but so far so good...
  • essexian
    essexian Posts: 187
    Some bloody left wing whinger....

    "I understand the anger of those who say Shamima Begum should not be allowed to return to the UK. But I don’t agree, for a simple reason: she was born in Britain and has British citizenship. Which other is supposed to look after her on our behalf? Syria? Another European country? Can you imagine the fury here if we took a French or Italian citizen who joined Isis?

    Begum is homegrown and is our problem. It has to happen here. As for her newborn boy, he will be one of the most vulnerable British citizens in the world. Unless we have now given up on compassion and justice – and believe that the sins of the mother should be visited on an innocent baby."

    Bloody do gooder......sorry, what's that? George Osbourne wrote that in today's Evening Standard.....

    Also, from the BTL in the Guardian this evening....

    "The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

    Article 6.
    Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
    Article 9.
    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
    Article 10.
    Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
    Article 13.
    (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
    (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
    Article 15.
    (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
    (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.


    when did the UK stopped to respect human rights?"

    The answer to that is never. Thus, the ruling is illegal and thus needs to be challenged. Okay, allow her back into the UK and if you can find evidence, put her on trial. Otherwise, the ruling is racist.
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,480
    It’s a 19 year old female and whilst I’d don’t support HMG iniatimg the repatriation of the individual it’s equally disturbing the the Home Secretary is playing to public opinion and in a narrower context, the Tory grassroots, in anticipation of a leadership context in the summer by throwing someone under a bus.

    Whilst ISIS supporters have murdered our fellow citizens here in the UK we should show more foreberance And compassion towards individuals who have been groomed at the age of 15.

    Given we are fighting an ideology we can’t simply sanction someone for their views now matter how at odds we are with the ideology and actions of a identifiable group.

    By all means if the individual concerned entered the UK and was arrested, tried and convicted then that’s another outcome as it’s due process.

    I’ve come full circle on this, mainly from the narrative from experts in this field who suggest de radicalisation programmes are the win win rather than making the girl a martyr and a driver for recruitment. We need to be more intelligent in how we deal and negate hate filled ideology,

    And that goes for zealots of any religious or political persuasion.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,624
    Bangladesh have stated categorically that she does not have citizenship, so either someone in the HO needs to do better research or 'The Saj' is chancing it for the publicity.

    Or both.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    So if a 15 year old Asian girl is courted by Muslim men, she dererves to end up in a refugee camp having given birth on her own.

    If a 15 year old White girl is courted by Muslim men, it's sickening grooming?
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Imposter wrote:
    orraloon wrote:
    Well, it's gone 6pm GMT. Is Imposter still with us?

    Edit: ^ There's my answer.

    Still here. Not quite sure precisely what was supposed to happen at 6pm, but so far so good...

    Aren't you meant to be busy composing your public apology?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Rolf F wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    orraloon wrote:
    Well, it's gone 6pm GMT. Is Imposter still with us?

    Edit: ^ There's my answer.

    Still here. Not quite sure precisely what was supposed to happen at 6pm, but so far so good...

    Aren't you meant to be busy composing your public apology?

    Dammit - I knew I'd forgotten something...
  • Jez mon wrote:
    So if a 15 year old Asian girl is courted by Muslim men, she dererves to end up in a refugee camp having given birth on her own.

    If a 15 year old White girl is courted by Muslim men, it's sickening grooming?

    I think she was allocated a fella when she got there
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    Jez mon wrote:
    So if a 15 year old Asian girl is courted by Muslim men, she dererves to end up in a refugee camp having given birth on her own.

    If a 15 year old White girl is courted by Muslim men, it's sickening grooming?

    You mean the 15 year old who used her sister's passport, boarded a plane to Turkey and then made her way to Syria of her own volition? The one that has shown no remorse for her actions and by her own admissions is not bothered about the atrocities she witnessed?

    I am ambivalent as to whether she is allowed to return or not, as I doubt she would make the top 100 potential security risks of the radicals already here. But please don't paint her as a poor victim.
  • Imposter wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    orraloon wrote:
    Well, it's gone 6pm GMT. Is Imposter still with us?

    Edit: ^ There's my answer.

    Still here. Not quite sure precisely what was supposed to happen at 6pm, but so far so good...

    Aren't you meant to be busy composing your public apology?

    Dammit - I knew I'd forgotten something...

    I think Goo, the mods, the owners, and the ECHR are way past a public apology, we are now in the realms of what format his self-immolation will take.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.

    I don't disagree with you but purely in legal terms I suspect it would make an important difference that one is a proscribed organisation and the other isn't.

    You know the point I was making, right?

    Yes. A fictitious whataboutery.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,479
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I think you’re spectacularly confused. Isis and the kkk are entirely different, different crimes, different objectives, different locations different ideologies.

    There is no difference. Both organisations are fascist, authoritarian monotheistic regimes who pursue their objectives through violence. Leaving aside their bullshit religions, their ideologies are fundamentally the same.

    There is a difference and quite an important one. ISIS is a proscribed organisation whilst as far as I can tell the KKK isn't. That's what presumably allows the Government to satisfy the other requirements of revoking citizenship.

    The fact that the KKK is not banned in the US should not make them any more valid than ISIS. Both are founded on hate, violence, monotheism and direct action - and makes them pretty much identical, IMO.

    I don't disagree with you but purely in legal terms I suspect it would make an important difference that one is a proscribed organisation and the other isn't.

    You know the point I was making, right?

    I don't appear to have responded to you!
  • rjsterry wrote:
    Bangladesh have stated categorically that she does not have citizenship, so either someone in the HO needs to do better research or 'The Saj' is chancing it for the publicity.

    Or both.

    All for the cost of a stamp to Bethnal Green he looks good to his party by reassuring them that despite appearances he is one of them and messes with Miss Begum.

    As keeping an eye on her will cost a fortune why don’t we offer Bangladesh (or anybody else) a million USD to take her.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,624
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    So if a 15 year old Asian girl is courted by Muslim men, she dererves to end up in a refugee camp having given birth on her own.

    If a 15 year old White girl is courted by Muslim men, it's sickening grooming?

    You mean the 15 year old who used her sister's passport, boarded a plane to Turkey and then made her way to Syria of her own volition? The one that has shown no remorse for her actions and by her own admissions is not bothered about the atrocities she witnessed?

    I am ambivalent as to whether she is allowed to return or not, as I doubt she would make the top 100 potential security risks of the radicals already here. But please don't paint her as a poor victim.

    Yes that's pretty much how grooming works.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Facilitating and bringing this ISIS terrorist back to the UK is only supported by terrorist sympathisers.

    I would much prefer, and 100% support, making a positive action of this episode and rescuing one of the deserving Syrian families from this refugee camp, while leaving this terrorist to deal with the decisions that have led her to be where she is now. She can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Facilitating and bringing this ISIS terrorist back to the UK is only supported by terrorist sympathisers.

    I would much prefer, and 100% support, making a positive action of this episode and rescuing one of the deserving Syrian families from this refugee camp, while leaving this terrorist to deal with the decisions that have led her to be where she is now. She can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.

    How do you know she is guilty of terrorism? Has there been a fair trial that I missed?

    Or is it only the likes of Coopster the 1st who get to decide?
  • Facilitating and bringing this ISIS terrorist back to the UK is only supported by terrorist sympathisers.

    I would much prefer, and 100% support, making a positive action of this episode and rescuing one of the deserving Syrian families from this refugee camp, while leaving this terrorist to deal with the decisions that have led her to be where she is now. She can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.

    You are surprisingly good at this - we should all take our upgrade as a compliment