Wife of ISIS fighter wants to return to the UK

robert88

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

morstar

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

robert88

Matthewfalle wrote:

..

I was in Sri Lanka over the period the president was assassinated back in 1999 but you don't hear me being all drama lama over it.

#Haydenissafe

Here. You'll like this:

https://ok.ru/video/337280371448?fromTime=4226

robert88

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

Less than nothing.

Alejandrosdog

rjsterry wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Franco di Banco wrote:

Back on topic....Rumour has it that the child has died.
Far be it from me to cast aspersions, but wasn't her sole reason for returning home so that the NHS could look after the kid for her? The NHS run by a western government that she despises!
She can now go to Bangladesh, or Holland to be with the love of her life.

to max Alex's joy could you confirm how devastated the mother is

for the others surely this is good as she will be less of a drain on society as that will save at least £20 a week

Dont be childish, the death of a child is not something to be joked about. In this case its false news from the family. Keeping it in the news.

But teenagers are fair game, presumably.

Yes if those teenagers are terrorists.

coopster_the_1st

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

The UK has done nothing wrong. It was the mother's choice. Her decisions had and have consequences. She decided to join a terrorist organisation.

robert88

Alejandrosdog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Franco di Banco wrote:

Back on topic....Rumour has it that the child has died.
Far be it from me to cast aspersions, but wasn't her sole reason for returning home so that the NHS could look after the kid for her? The NHS run by a western government that she despises!
She can now go to Bangladesh, or Holland to be with the love of her life.

to max Alex's joy could you confirm how devastated the mother is

for the others surely this is good as she will be less of a drain on society as that will save at least £20 a week

Dont be childish, the death of a child is not something to be joked about. In this case its false news from the family. Keeping it in the news.

But teenagers are fair game, presumably.

Yes if those teenagers are terrorists.

Not a convicted terrorist and by any standard the baby was innocent of any crime. And a British citizen.

Too late to do anything now of course as he is dead. Maybe we are becoming as primitive as the mafia where there's no need for a trial and vendettas are passed on through generations.

Pross

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

I think it's a stretch to blame the UK government for the child's death. I agree Begum should have been allowed back if she got to the country herself but the moment she made it public she was looking to return there was no way any Government could be actively seen helping her do so which means it is highly unlikely she'd have been back here even if her citizenship hadn't been revoked and taking a 3 week old baby without the mother would also be criticised.

Ultimately she had lost 2 previous children due to conditions in the camp so maybe the best solution would have been to avoid getting pregnant a third time there.

morstar

Pross wrote:

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

I think it's a stretch to blame the UK government for the child's death. I agree Begum should have been allowed back if she got to the country herself but the moment she made it public she was looking to return there was no way any Government could be actively seen helping her do so which means it is highly unlikely she'd have been back here even if her citizenship hadn't been revoked and taking a 3 week old baby without the mother would also be criticised.

Ultimately she had lost 2 previous children due to conditions in the camp so maybe the best solution would have been to avoid getting pregnant a third time there.

To clarify, I am not blaming the UK government. The situation was created by the girl herself. I don't agree with the string her up mentality but she is accountable for her actions. I think she has been exploited but she is not blameless.

My comment solely distinguishes between difficulty in achieving something you pursued and taking no action. If, in a position of power, you choose to take no action, you need to own that decision, not hide behind excuses.
i.e. 'we opted to take no action due to the difficulty/risks of the situation'.
Subtly but significantly different to trying to repatriate but not achieving in the face of difficulties.
That's how leadership works. It's not as if it will affect his popularity, people on either side have already made their minds up where they stand.

ballysmate

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

Less than nothing.

All Javid is guilty of here is stating the obvious.
And being pedantic, having confirmed that the child is a British citizen in a foreign land, would it not fall to the FO to render any assistance, not Javid who seems to get all the flak from Cake Stoppers?

morstar

Ballysmate wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

Less than nothing.

All Javid is guilty of here is stating the obvious.
And being pedantic, having confirmed that the child is a British citizen in a foreign land, would it not fall to the FO to render any assistance, not Javid who seems to get all the flak from Cake Stoppers?

Explained my position in previous post.
The guy at the top can't wade in publicly and then hide behind departmental structure. You either let your departments do their jobs and only deal with things personally, if and when they get escalated to you, or you wade in and take ownership along with all that entails (good and bad).

rjsterry

Ballysmate wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

Less than nothing.

All Javid is guilty of here is stating the obvious.
And being pedantic, having confirmed that the child is a British citizen in a foreign land, would it not fall to the FO to render any assistance, not Javid who seems to get all the flak from Cake Stoppers?

Possibly he would get less flak if he was not so transparently trying to exploit every situation to ingratiate himself with party membership.

rick_chasey

Correct.

If May wasn’t almost certain to be stepping down before the end of 2019, would he even have made a comment?

robert88

Ballysmate wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

Less than nothing.

All Javid is guilty of here is stating the obvious.
And being pedantic, having confirmed that the child is a British citizen in a foreign land, would it not fall to the FO to render any assistance, not Javid who seems to get all the flak from Cake Stoppers?

Well in fact I wasn't singling out Javid because I referred to the UK not Javid. I believe the department most likely to have been able to help would have been the Foreign and Commonwealth Office under Jeremy Hunt. Javid merely stripped the mother of her citizenship. The FCO made no attempt to assist the child as far as I am aware and Javid almost certainly didn't ask them to. Of course he might have done had he wished but he clearly did not wish.

Had the case not been publicised by the Times newspaper then I think it's likely that Begum would have retained her citizenship and been permitted to return, possibly into custody. It's happened in similar cases that were not exploited by a government-supporting newspaper whose intentions were suspect.

As for whether the 15 year old should have gone to Syria against the advice of the FCO I think recent years have shown that social media has made it easy to misguide people once it becomes known what buttons to press in order to reshape or harden their views. It's a problem that has only just begun to be acknowledged and addressed - but not by our government who prefer to duck the issue. And who wants to admit that they have been duped anyway?

Alejandrosdog

What a bleeding heart.

Sadly the terrorist formally known as British, seems robust.

robert88

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

Less than nothing.

All Javid is guilty of here is stating the obvious.
And being pedantic, having confirmed that the child is a British citizen in a foreign land, would it not fall to the FO to render any assistance, not Javid who seems to get all the flak from Cake Stoppers?

Well in fact I wasn't singling out Javid because I referred to the UK not Javid. I believe the department most likely to have been able to help would have been the Foreign and Commonwealth Office under Jeremy Hunt. Javid merely stripped the mother of her citizenship. The FCO made no attempt to assist the child as far as I am aware and Javid almost certainly didn't ask them to. Of course he might have done had he wished but he clearly did not wish.

Had the case not been publicised by the Times newspaper then I think it's likely that Begum would have retained her citizenship and been permitted to return, possibly into custody. It's happened in similar cases that were not exploited by a government-supporting newspaper whose intentions were suspect.

As for whether the 15 year old should have gone to Syria against the advice of the FCO I think recent years have shown that social media has made it easy to misguide people once it becomes known what buttons to press in order to reshape or harden their views. It's a problem that has only just begun to be acknowledged and addressed - but not by our government who prefer to duck the issue. And who wants to admit that they have been duped anyway?

What a bleeding heart.

..

Coming from you I feel that is a compliment I am proud to accept. Thank you.

(You and ISIS are two sides of the same coin)

john80

rjsterry wrote:

Not directly related, but when you start playing around with denying citizenship, others get the same idea. In a reversal of the Begum case, Iran refuses to acknowledge that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has British citizenship after the Foreign Secretary granted her diplomatic protection.

Cant beat a bit of miss-direction there eh. Iran has a long track record of doing what it likes. I think the UK governments actions would have to get pretty extreme to take the blame for Iran's actions. Not sure we are quite there yet.

rjsterry

john80 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Not directly related, but when you start playing around with denying citizenship, others get the same idea. In a reversal of the Begum case, Iran refuses to acknowledge that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has British citizenship after the Foreign Secretary granted her diplomatic protection.

Cant beat a bit of miss-direction there eh. Iran has a long track record of doing what it likes. I think the UK governments actions would have to get pretty extreme to take the blame for Iran's actions. Not sure we are quite there yet.

Hence the words "Not directly related".

john80

rjsterry wrote:

john80 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Not directly related, but when you start playing around with denying citizenship, others get the same idea. In a reversal of the Begum case, Iran refuses to acknowledge that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has British citizenship after the Foreign Secretary granted her diplomatic protection.

Cant beat a bit of miss-direction there eh. Iran has a long track record of doing what it likes. I think the UK governments actions would have to get pretty extreme to take the blame for Iran's actions. Not sure we are quite there yet.

Hence the words "Not directly related".

"But when you start playing around with denying citizenship, others get the same idea" is the later part of that sentence. Putting "Not directly related" at the beginning of a sentence then making the rest of the sentence about two acts being related is pretty special use of English.

Any other not directly related Iranian acts of aggression or incarceration you would like to pin on the UK government. I hear that a couple in the UK were spotted kissing in public outside after they had proposed in the UK in front of onlookers and someone videoed it. Iran had to act fast so it arrested a couple that thought they could bring this heinous culture to Iran. Good news unlike Ratcliffe they have been released on bail.

ballysmate

rjsterry wrote:

Not directly related, but when you start playing around with denying citizenship, others get the same idea. In a reversal of the Begum case, Iran refuses to acknowledge that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has British citizenship after the Foreign Secretary granted her diplomatic protection.

Being a bit disingenuous there. The 2 things don't seem to be linked. It appears this has always been Iran's position.

Iran refuses to recognise dual nationals so does not recognise Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe's right to be represented by Britain.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47490689

rjsterry

Not sure what is so special about it. They're unconnected cases, but the symmetry was striking. Nevertheless, if the UK government are going to publicly play around with citizenship, it puts us in a weaker position to argue that other countries shouldn't do it, too.

Alejandrosdog

Robert88 wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Well the child is dead and the UK stands accused of failure to act to save a newly born British citizen.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid confirmed Begum's son was a British citizen but said it would be "incredibly difficult" to facilitate the return of a child from Syria

.

It's incredibly difficult to achieve anything when you do nothing.

Less than nothing.

All Javid is guilty of here is stating the obvious.
And being pedantic, having confirmed that the child is a British citizen in a foreign land, would it not fall to the FO to render any assistance, not Javid who seems to get all the flak from Cake Stoppers?

Well in fact I wasn't singling out Javid because I referred to the UK not Javid. I believe the department most likely to have been able to help would have been the Foreign and Commonwealth Office under Jeremy Hunt. Javid merely stripped the mother of her citizenship. The FCO made no attempt to assist the child as far as I am aware and Javid almost certainly didn't ask them to. Of course he might have done had he wished but he clearly did not wish.

Had the case not been publicised by the Times newspaper then I think it's likely that Begum would have retained her citizenship and been permitted to return, possibly into custody. It's happened in similar cases that were not exploited by a government-supporting newspaper whose intentions were suspect.

As for whether the 15 year old should have gone to Syria against the advice of the FCO I think recent years have shown that social media has made it easy to misguide people once it becomes known what buttons to press in order to reshape or harden their views. It's a problem that has only just begun to be acknowledged and addressed - but not by our government who prefer to duck the issue. And who wants to admit that they have been duped anyway?

What a bleeding heart.

..

Coming from you I feel that is a compliment I am proud to accept. Thank you.

(You and ISIS are two sides of the same coin)

Well sweetie if my view that a terrorist piece of shot like Begum deserves no sympathy makes me the same as ISIS then you truly are incapable of rational thought.

rjsterry

I think it's the wishing someone dead because of their thoughts or actions. Doesn't sound all that different from "death to the apostates".

kingstongraham

If it was severe punishment for people who call other posters sweetie, I'd be all for it.

Alejandrosdog

rjsterry wrote:

I think it's the wishing someone dead because of their thoughts or actions. Doesn't sound all that different from "death to the apostates".

I think some more rigorous thinking would help you there.

rjsterry

Alejandrosdog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I think it's the wishing someone dead because of their thoughts or actions. Doesn't sound all that different from "death to the apostates".

I think some more rigorous thinking would help you there.

Well either you wish someone dead or you don't. You've made it pretty clear which side of the fence you sit on.

darkhairedlord

rjsterry wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I think it's the wishing someone dead because of their thoughts or actions. Doesn't sound all that different from "death to the apostates".

I think some more rigorous thinking would help you there.

Well either you wish someone dead or you don't. You've made it pretty clear which side of the fence you sit on.

Bet he voted brexit too.

Alejandrosdog

darkhairedlord wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I think it's the wishing someone dead because of their thoughts or actions. Doesn't sound all that different from "death to the apostates".

I think some more rigorous thinking would help you there.

Well either you wish someone dead or you don't. You've made it pretty clear which side of the fence you sit on.

Bet he voted brexit too.

Def voted brexit and favour a hard brexit. I also did rather well with the scientists statistics test.

Alejandrosdog

rjsterry wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I think it's the wishing someone dead because of their thoughts or actions. Doesn't sound all that different from "death to the apostates".

I think some more rigorous thinking would help you there.

Well either you wish someone dead or you don't. You've made it pretty clear which side of the fence you sit on.

So to summarise, your deep and intense thinking brings you to the point where governments not acting as you think, or posters on bike radar not having the same terrorist appeasing approach that you appear to prefer, means they are to be dismissed by assigning terrorist tags to them.

Riiiiight. Any more tantrums from bed wetting Islington?

surrey_commuter

Alejandrosdog wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I think it's the wishing someone dead because of their thoughts or actions. Doesn't sound all that different from "death to the apostates".

I think some more rigorous thinking would help you there.

Well either you wish someone dead or you don't. You've made it pretty clear which side of the fence you sit on.

Bet he voted brexit too.

Def voted brexit and favour a hard brexit. I also did rather well with the scientists statistics test.

Man joins website and adopts the persona of a moron, man tires of being thought of as a moron and tries to change his persona by writing some meaningless words and takes up using baffling emojis... how long until the flounce?

I only know three Leavers in the real world, one wants soft and the other two are pensioner mad. On here there are only you Coopster and SteveO so could I ask why you want a hard Brexit