LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

Jezyboy

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

Undoing the pension triple lock?

Anyway, one for @surrey_commuter as I know this is one of his pet subjects.

https://normielisation.substack.com/p/why-we-should-pay-politicians-more

i would benchmarking them against an appropriate job and pay them maybe up to £250k but would demand in return proportional representation so you can clear out the Graylings.

How does halving the number sound along with a wage doubling and banning from taking second jobs.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

rick_chasey

Let's see your attempt SC.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

Let's see your attempt SC.

mine was more evenly spread but only got to £15bn as there weren't enough variables for me to raise money. I doubt I would have got anywhere near £100bn but that is my point that you need to pull back on the spending. As it is a long-term thing I would let fiscal drag do some of the heavy lifting.

rick_chasey

No fun :P

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

https://tax.demos.co.uk/

Design your own tax system.

May have a play with that when I have some time, although presumably it will not factor in the 'human response' element.

VAT and NIC/income tax will be the biggest variables to play with.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

rick_chasey

Ugh

https://twitter.com/chrishanretty/status/1309224483933360128?s=21

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

I thought they did that to avoid SDLT, does it get you out of Council Tax as well?

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

Is it still common now that SDLT has changed?

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

I thought they did that to avoid SDLT, does it get you out of Council Tax as well?

They did/do, but it could serve the same purpose if you introduced a tax on owned property. Council tax is pretty trivial if you are the sort of person that holds multiple high value London properties through a company. In any case the owner is usually only liable if the property is unoccupied. Otherwise it is payable by the occupier. It's more of a bill for using Council services rather than a property tax.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

Is it still common now that SDLT has changed?

I haven't done a survey, but not aware that it has changed significantly.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

I thought they did that to avoid SDLT, does it get you out of Council Tax as well?

They did/do, but it could serve the same purpose if you introduced a tax on owned property. Council tax is pretty trivial if you are the sort of person that holds multiple high value London properties through a company. In any case the owner is usually only liable if the property is unoccupied. Otherwise it is payable by the occupier. It's more of a bill for using Council services rather than a property tax.

I would raise council tax rates so that they replaced the revenue lost when I reduced stamp duty on property to a flat rate of 1% on a all purchases.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

I thought they did that to avoid SDLT, does it get you out of Council Tax as well?

They did/do, but it could serve the same purpose if you introduced a tax on owned property. Council tax is pretty trivial if you are the sort of person that holds multiple high value London properties through a company. In any case the owner is usually only liable if the property is unoccupied. Otherwise it is payable by the occupier. It's more of a bill for using Council services rather than a property tax.

I would raise council tax rates so that they replaced the revenue lost when I reduced stamp duty on property to a flat rate of 1% on a all purchases.

Again, council tax is paid by occupiers to the local authority, not by owners to HMRC. Increased council tax receipts would not replace central government revenue What you are describing is a new tax on assets.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

I thought they did that to avoid SDLT, does it get you out of Council Tax as well?

They did/do, but it could serve the same purpose if you introduced a tax on owned property. Council tax is pretty trivial if you are the sort of person that holds multiple high value London properties through a company. In any case the owner is usually only liable if the property is unoccupied. Otherwise it is payable by the occupier. It's more of a bill for using Council services rather than a property tax.

I would raise council tax rates so that they replaced the revenue lost when I reduced stamp duty on property to a flat rate of 1% on a all purchases.

Again, council tax is paid by occupiers to the local authority, not by owners to HMRC. Increased council tax receipts would not replace central government revenue What you are describing is a new tax on assets.

again, I would make the owner liable not the occupier. I am sure they can work out the admin on settling up with central govt.

Yep I am proposing a more equitable tax on assets, than SDLT and removing blockages from the housing and labour markets

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

I thought they did that to avoid SDLT, does it get you out of Council Tax as well?

They did/do, but it could serve the same purpose if you introduced a tax on owned property. Council tax is pretty trivial if you are the sort of person that holds multiple high value London properties through a company. In any case the owner is usually only liable if the property is unoccupied. Otherwise it is payable by the occupier. It's more of a bill for using Council services rather than a property tax.

I would raise council tax rates so that they replaced the revenue lost when I reduced stamp duty on property to a flat rate of 1% on a all purchases.

Again, council tax is paid by occupiers to the local authority, not by owners to HMRC. Increased council tax receipts would not replace central government revenue What you are describing is a new tax on assets.

again, I would make the owner liable not the occupier. I am sure they can work out the admin on settling up with central govt.

Yep I am proposing a more equitable tax on assets, than SDLT and removing blockages from the housing and labour markets

So Housing Associations and other large estates suddenly take on an enormous tax burden and everyone who rents suddenly stops paying for their bins to be collected. I mean I know we are just talking hypothetically, but why not just leave Council tax in place and tax assets separately. Why on earth put it on local authorities to collect when the people paying are likely to have nothing to do with the area.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair.

Updated version



Targeting £80bn, on the premise I can claw £20bn elsewhere beyond income tax.

It's eerrr...punchy on wealth and pension relief (or lack of).

Our old friend Laffer would suggest you would struggle to realise that 24% increase on the top 10%

Possibly.

Here's where the main chunk of the money comes from



2% a year wealth tax on anything over £1m, which includes your main home.

Thing is, when you play around, you see the main gains are in that higher income bracket - the rest literally don't get paid enough.

problem is that by definition they are the most geographically mobile and have the means and motivation to reduce their tax burden.

anyway it is a tax on london homeowners so why not simplify it and bring in a higher Council Tax rate. Do this at the same time as scrapping stamp duty and nobody will know or care.

Tenants pay Council tax, too.

simple enough to make the owner liable

And easy enough to put the property in a company name, if it isn't already.

Costly though.

It's pretty common with high value properties already.

I thought they did that to avoid SDLT, does it get you out of Council Tax as well?

They did/do, but it could serve the same purpose if you introduced a tax on owned property. Council tax is pretty trivial if you are the sort of person that holds multiple high value London properties through a company. In any case the owner is usually only liable if the property is unoccupied. Otherwise it is payable by the occupier. It's more of a bill for using Council services rather than a property tax.

I would raise council tax rates so that they replaced the revenue lost when I reduced stamp duty on property to a flat rate of 1% on a all purchases.

Again, council tax is paid by occupiers to the local authority, not by owners to HMRC. Increased council tax receipts would not replace central government revenue What you are describing is a new tax on assets.

again, I would make the owner liable not the occupier. I am sure they can work out the admin on settling up with central govt.

Yep I am proposing a more equitable tax on assets, than SDLT and removing blockages from the housing and labour markets

So Housing Associations and other large estates suddenly take on an enormous tax burden and everyone who rents suddenly stops paying for their bins to be collected. I mean I know we are just talking hypothetically, but why not just leave Council tax in place and tax assets separately. Why on earth put it on local authorities to collect when the people paying are likely to have nothing to do with the area.

And I thought my way was going to be easier than calculating everyone’s wealth each year.

Cut the block grant then councils keep more of the money.

Anyway property is relatively under taxed in this country and stamp duty is fvcked up so I will let the civil servants work out the details.

rjsterry

Oh I think property is certainly somewhere to look, just not via Council tax. Compulsory registration of all land would be a start.

Stevo_666

Putting VAT rates up to the 'Scandy' level of 25% nets over £34bn.

rick_chasey

Lol, goes straight for the most regressive tax you can find on it.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

Lol, goes straight for the most regressive tax you can find on it.

Ha. Everyone thinks VAT isn't a big issue until they get some building work done.

pangolin

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Lol, goes straight for the most regressive tax you can find on it.

Ha. Everyone thinks VAT isn't a big issue until they get some building work done.

Obviously it's a bigger number then than in the vast majority of purchases, but do you think it's the size or more that the ex VAT amount is spelled out in a way that you don't normally see?

rick_chasey

FWIW, in my ideal tax would VAT is 15%.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Lol, goes straight for the most regressive tax you can find on it.

Just pointing out where the big bucks are.

Here's a map of VAT rates around Europe - 3 Scandies at 25%, Finland & Greece at 24%, Ireland, Portugal, Poland at 23% etc. You should write a letter telling them where they're going wrong and they are all horribly regressive.