LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

briantrumpet

The SMT at The Telegraph really are losing their patience with the shambles that is HMG, when they are being compared negatively with Theresa May's team.

"There is, however, no hiding from the grim reality; by the look of it, the UK is going to end up with both the worst per capita death rate and worst hit to the economy of any industrialised nation. All those restrictions seem to have profited us nothing.

Throughout it all, the Prime Minister has appeared clueless and paralysed by events. Sorry to say, but even the hapless - though diligent - Theresa May would have been better suited to the particular challenges of this crisis. A mass vaccination programme is at least a year away, and even then we cannot be sure of its efficacy. Yet if we carry on like this, there will by then be no economy left to revive."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/29/even-theresa-may-looks-paragon-competence-against-lot/

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1311038408391823365?s=21

rjsterry

I think Patel might be unwell. Mind you, with the AG and Lord Chancellor claiming that the rule of law is more of how-you-feel thing, why would anyone be surprised.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

I think Patel might be unwell. Mind you, with the AG and Lord Chancellor claiming that the rule of law is more of how-you-feel thing, why would anyone be surprised.

Maybe she's trying the Blackadder ploy of claiming she's insane. Though she might have overlooked the fact that it's quite hard to tell in the current cabinet.

bompington

I blame wibble.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

I think Patel might be unwell. Mind you, with the AG and Lord Chancellor claiming that the rule of law is more of how-you-feel thing, why would anyone be surprised.

Maybe she's trying the Blackadder ploy of claiming she's insane. Though she might have overlooked the fact that it's quite hard to tell in the current cabinet.

Indeed, although apparently the idea has been proposed before under Blair's government and we used to ship criminals to Australia.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

I think Patel might be unwell. Mind you, with the AG and Lord Chancellor claiming that the rule of law is more of how-you-feel thing, why would anyone be surprised.

Maybe she's trying the Blackadder ploy of claiming she's insane. Though she might have overlooked the fact that it's quite hard to tell in the current cabinet.

Indeed, although apparently the idea has been proposed before under Blair's government and we used to ship criminals to Australia.

It's just looking to copy Australia's approach. So it is not even original.

rick_chasey

So i've been thinking about my definition of left-right, which is more around your cultural values and a wider countryside market town (right) vs urban (left) divide, rather than your relationship to the means of production.

Another curious example I've noticed is the discussion amongst parents around if they're going to send their kids to private school. When I was young, it was basically around, money aside, do you want your kid to be with all strata of society, or do you want them to mix with the kids of other well off parents (and, by assumption, get a 'better' education). I think there's something there about coaching kids better for certain unis, smaller classes, nicer kit, yadda yadda.

Anyway, round here, the discussion, especially from parents who are teachers, is they want to send their kids one of the local private school *because they feel the state school curriculum is too right wing*, which was a new one to me.

I guess this is a symptom of what i'm trying to articulate with my idea, which is that people with money, aren't necessarily more right wing because they have the cash. The divide has moved on from that.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

I guess this is a symptom of what i'm trying to articulate with my idea, which is that people with money, aren't necessarily more right wing because they have the cash. The divide has moved on from that.

In my experience the left wing with money turn around fairly sharply when that money is threatened.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1311038408391823365?s=21

I don't see the problem, if it was good enough for an Emperor surely a few immigrants should be happy to be allowed to live there?

Dorset_Boy

In rural areas there isn't a choice of secondary schooling other than the local state school, which might not be very good, against going private and making the financial and other sacrifices that entails.

In an urban area there is usually a much wider choice of state secondary schools.

Interesting that Rick's Cambridge school teachers think the state curriculum is too right wing, though surely the private school exam curriculum is the same if they are using the same exam boards.

Also in many small towns, the state school will still be 98% white. The private schools will typically have a much higher ethnic mix, though not as wide a wealth mix.

orraloon

Is Boris planning another of his famous 'Bridges' to connect?

rick_chasey

Dorset_Boy said:

In rural areas there isn't a choice of secondary schooling other than the local state school, which might not be very good, against going private and making the financial and other sacrifices that entails.

In an urban area there is usually a much wider choice of state secondary schools.

Interesting that Rick's Cambridge school teachers think the state curriculum is too right wing, though surely the private school exam curriculum is the same if they are using the same exam boards.

Also in many small towns, the state school will still be 98% white. The private schools will typically have a much higher ethnic mix, though not as wide a wealth mix.

I'm at the limits of my knowledge here but I think there are instances under this gov't where there is quite a bit of flexibility around how and what you teach.

The example used by a parent & teacher was around how, wait for it, the British empire is taught in schools, which said parent felt was too much about British achievements.

FWIW here, state schools are so overcrowded there is absolutely no choice on where to send your kids.

TheBigBean

Dorset_Boy said:

Also in many small towns, the state school will still be 98% white. The private schools will typically have a much higher ethnic mix, though not as wide a wealth mix.

That's an interesting take. It tends to be the opposite in inner city schools.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

So i've been thinking about my definition of left-right, which is more around your cultural values and a wider countryside market town (right) vs urban (left) divide, rather than your relationship to the means of production.

Another curious example I've noticed is the discussion amongst parents around if they're going to send their kids to private school. When I was young, it was basically around, money aside, do you want your kid to be with all strata of society, or do you want them to mix with the kids of other well off parents (and, by assumption, get a 'better' education). I think there's something there about coaching kids better for certain unis, smaller classes, nicer kit, yadda yadda.

Anyway, round here, the discussion, especially from parents who are teachers, is they want to send their kids one of the local private school *because they feel the state school curriculum is too right wing*, which was a new one to me.

I guess this is a symptom of what i'm trying to articulate with my idea, which is that people with money, aren't necessarily more right wing because they have the cash. The divide has moved on from that.

a teacher justifying their decision to use private schools on the grounds that the state curriculum is too right wing is just them polishing up their leftie credentials.

Parents whatever their political leaning will want to provide what they consider the best start for their children. I think it was Blair who struggled to find somebody to be Education Minister who did not have kids in the private sector.

You are over-thinking the whole left right thing. 99% of the population do not engage in politics in the way you do, I imagine the majority could not name their MP and would have no idea what PMQ stands for. This also means that they do not slavishly and actively endorse every policy because it has "their" rosette on it. Every generation of their party may have voted for the same way but their views will not reflect that on many subjects.

As you know fiscally I am close to Thatcher but socially close to Cameron.

Current Tories are fiscally close to Miliband and socially close to Enoch Powell.

Lastly a thought on Boris's North Star being civil liberties, on the off chance it was not a lie then it is quite funny that his compass lost it's bearings once he had control of the levers of power.

rjsterry

It's a lie like everything else. Something put on that made him electable as London Mayor.

The sheer white-cliffs-of-Dover-sized irony of all his supporters both inside and outside the HoC, cheering the authoritarianism of the IMB, but beside themselves about the same authoritarianism being used to tell them to wear a face mask or leave the pub by 10pm, as well as ripping up the planning system while everyone's back is turned is one of the highlights of 2020.

Not a single Conservative MP voted against the government's deliberate breach of the rule of law and then they are surprised when the same government introduces criminal law by tweet in the middle of the night.

On a lighter note, the Home Office is clearly losing its mind.

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1311370480318898177?s=19

rjsterry

Dorset_Boy said:

In rural areas there isn't a choice of secondary schooling other than the local state school, which might not be very good, against going private and making the financial and other sacrifices that entails.

In an urban area there is usually a much wider choice of state secondary schools.

Interesting that Rick's Cambridge school teachers think the state curriculum is too right wing, though surely the private school exam curriculum is the same if they are using the same exam boards.

Also in many small towns, the state school will still be 98% white. The private schools will typically have a much higher ethnic mix, though not as wide a wealth mix.

The choice is a bit of an illusion. Catchment areas are such that you have to live within about 15 minutes walk of a school you want your children to attend.

orraloon

You remember how Scummings wanted to recruit "weirdos and misfits" into the advisor army? Looks like some got in.

briantrumpet

When you're 70 points behind Liz Truss amongst Tory Party members, maybe it's time to reflect on your position...

Pross

On the plus side, he's doing better than Williamson.

rick_chasey

Liz Truss, Jesus Christ

pblakeney

The most telling part of that is this -
"Source: ConservativeHome survey of party members, September 2020".

There can't be a more damning survey, and zero leftiebollocks.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

Liz Truss, Jesus Christ

It does rather bring the quality of the field into focus.

Stevo_666

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

rjsterry

😂

This government complaining that Whitehall is over-centralised.

🤣

I mean if Dom actually did something about it rather than just endlessly moaning about how nobody is as clever as he is, then maybe I'd take the story seriously.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

When you have an 80 seat majority and have been in power for 10 years there really is no one else to blame for whatever the current situation is.

surrey_commuter

I am not sure Cummings has ever even pretended to be a Tory so would not think of “us being in power”

I do have some sympathy with the idea of the civil service looking more like society but rather than metropolitan elite I see the problems as privately educated, London, DB pensions.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

Who said that? Apart from you.

There's always room for improvement.

rick_chasey

Does anyone have any actual experience of Whitehall and how it operates and makes decisions?

I’m always surprised how many good people it gets given it’s often a central London job for pay that these good people could double in an equivalent private sector job.