Boris Johnson's Burkha Comments

rjsterry

Polly Toynbee isn't a comedian either, but she is a patron of Humanists UK; she has consistently argued against religion in various forms. Some of the first people to ask Johnson to apologise were his party chairman and the Prime Minister. This suggests that this is mostly an internal dispute, with unfortunate collateral damage to some Muslim women.

Jez mon

Complaining about bias, when the print media is dominated by right leaning papers is slightly strange no?

We could also go down the route of trying to claim that the HIGNFY jokes are as much about Prince Charles as the Burkha, but dissecting a joke to that degree is rarely worthwhile

Ben6899

bompington wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

bompington wrote:

It is, of course, OK to mock burkas if you're doing it from a left/liberal perspective...
https://order-order.com/2018/08/10/bbc- ... ked-burka/

I was always told two wrongs don't make a right?

There's also a difference in that Boris is meant to be a politician..

But I'm not defending Johnson here so much as commenting on the staggering bias that means that Fry, Toynbee and the Guardian in general are given a free pass - even approved of - for the exact same thing that apparently proves that Johnson is a Fascist dog-whistler.

I take your point, Bomp, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over that c**t Johnson being treated unfairly.

Boot on the other foot and all that.

verylonglegs

I think the point about Johnson aspiring to be PM rather than being a comedian is what is important. Rowan Atkinson came out in his defense too didn't he? If Boris can't work out the distinction between the two roles then he is not fit for office and I'd happily see his career burn up in flames over this or the next load of nonsense that will inevitably come fall out of his mouth at some point.

His big red bus with £350million a week plastered down the side was no different in my view, he was just a clown who saw the whole campaign as a jolly jape that could maybe enhance his political career. A prat of the highest calibre.

bompington

Ben6899 wrote:

I take your point, Bomp, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over that c**t Johnson being treated unfairly.

Once again, a classic illustration of the sickness that has overwhelmed political discourse.

If you think it is OK to be unfair to one politician because they are on the other side / wrong / a prat, then you are shifting the whole basis of debate, and I am totally prepared to use the slippery slope argument here: there is a direct link from being happy to treat Johnson unfairly to "punch a Fascist", and from there to the Gulag and the gas chambers.

I get that Johnson is an 4rsehole. I get that his policies - insofar as they extend beyond the promotion of Boris, i.e. not far - are obnoxious and getting obnoxiouser, his campaigning is frequently disingenuous (or downright mendacious, as in the bus) and on all these counts he deserves all the opprobrium he gets.

But he has been jumped on so ridiculously viciously not for his self-serving demagoguery on Brexit or anything else, but for making comments that are practically identical to ones made by the likes of Fry and Toynbee. And please don't give me any of that crap about "he's a senior politician and they're not" - everyone and their dog gets called out for anything they say these days, no-one can seriously suggest that the reason Fry and Toynbee haven't been condemned is because they somehow aren't serious enough.

Ben, your description of Johnson is hard to argue with. But the issue with which he is being beaten over the head is blatant political opportunism, and the reason it annoys me is not because I care in the slightest what happens to him - I think it would be a great thing if he moved full-time to writing almost-funny columns in the right-wing press - but because I am appalled at the way political debate is being conducted these days.

Jez mon

Did you check when that episode of HIGNFY aired bomp?

I think that may well give you some level of explanation too.

rolf_f

bompington wrote:

But he has been jumped on so ridiculously viciously not for his self-serving demagoguery on Brexit or anything else, but for making comments that are practically identical to ones made by the likes of Fry and Toynbee. And please don't give me any of that crap about "he's a senior politician and they're not" - everyone and their dog gets called out for anything they say these days, no-one can seriously suggest that the reason Fry and Toynbee haven't been condemned is because they somehow aren't serious enough.

It isn't crap. And comedians are less serious. That's the point. They are comedians. The consequences of what they say is not the same and the standards of how they need to behave are different. You can't apply the same standards to everyone no matter how pleasingly PC it sounds.

I think you are right that Bojo needs to be treated fairly - and that means that, in this case, he apologises for behaving in a woefully unprofessional way and maybe has some therapy or whatever he needs to ensure it doesn't happen again. And if (as he will) he keeps behaving in woefully unprofessional ways, he gets sacked. Like everyone else would be. There's nothing inconsistent in that.

Ben6899

bompington wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

I take your point, Bomp, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over that c**t Johnson being treated unfairly.

Once again, a classic illustration of the sickness that has overwhelmed political discourse.

If you think it is OK to be unfair to one politician because they are on the other side / wrong / a prat, then you are shifting the whole basis of debate, and I am totally prepared to use the slippery slope argument here: there is a direct link from being happy to treat Johnson unfairly to "punch a Fascist", and from there to the Gulag and the gas chambers.

I get that Johnson is an 4rsehole. I get that his policies - insofar as they extend beyond the promotion of Boris, i.e. not far - are obnoxious and getting obnoxiouser, his campaigning is frequently disingenuous (or downright mendacious, as in the bus) and on all these counts he deserves all the opprobrium he gets.

But he has been jumped on so ridiculously viciously not for his self-serving demagoguery on Brexit or anything else, but for making comments that are practically identical to ones made by the likes of Fry and Toynbee. And please don't give me any of that crap about "he's a senior politician and they're not" - everyone and their dog gets called out for anything they say these days, no-one can seriously suggest that the reason Fry and Toynbee haven't been condemned is because they somehow aren't serious enough.

Ben, your description of Johnson is hard to argue with. But the issue with which he is being beaten over the head is blatant political opportunism, and the reason it annoys me is not because I care in the slightest what happens to him - I think it would be a great thing if he moved full-time to writing almost-funny columns in the right-wing press - but because I am appalled at the way political debate is being conducted these days.

The bit in bold is why I won't lose any sleep. That's all you needed to write - from my POV anyway.

It's a good post though - well written.

coopster_the_1st

bompington wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

I take your point, Bomp, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over that c**t Johnson being treated unfairly.

Once again, a classic illustration of the sickness that has overwhelmed political discourse.

If you think it is OK to be unfair to one politician because they are on the other side / wrong / a prat, then you are shifting the whole basis of debate, and I am totally prepared to use the slippery slope argument here: there is a direct link from being happy to treat Johnson unfairly to "punch a Fascist", and from there to the Gulag and the gas chambers.

I get that Johnson is an 4rsehole. I get that his policies - insofar as they extend beyond the promotion of Boris, i.e. not far - are obnoxious and getting obnoxiouser, his campaigning is frequently disingenuous (or downright mendacious, as in the bus) and on all these counts he deserves all the opprobrium he gets.

But he has been jumped on so ridiculously viciously not for his self-serving demagoguery on Brexit or anything else, but for making comments that are practically identical to ones made by the likes of Fry and Toynbee. And please don't give me any of that crap about "he's a senior politician and they're not" - everyone and their dog gets called out for anything they say these days, no-one can seriously suggest that the reason Fry and Toynbee haven't been condemned is because they somehow aren't serious enough.

Ben, your description of Johnson is hard to argue with. But the issue with which he is being beaten over the head is blatant political opportunism, and the reason it annoys me is not because I care in the slightest what happens to him - I think it would be a great thing if he moved full-time to writing almost-funny columns in the right-wing press - but because I am appalled at the way political debate is being conducted these days.

These words are wasted on Ben. He is one of the shouty faux enraged brigade when it is someones he disagrees with.

He is one of many on this forum like this. Calling them out for it makes no difference.

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

bompington wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

I take your point, Bomp, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over that c**t Johnson being treated unfairly.

Once again, a classic illustration of the sickness that has overwhelmed political discourse.

If you think it is OK to be unfair to one politician because they are on the other side / wrong / a prat, then you are shifting the whole basis of debate, and I am totally prepared to use the slippery slope argument here: there is a direct link from being happy to treat Johnson unfairly to "punch a Fascist", and from there to the Gulag and the gas chambers.

I get that Johnson is an 4rsehole. I get that his policies - insofar as they extend beyond the promotion of Boris, i.e. not far - are obnoxious and getting obnoxiouser, his campaigning is frequently disingenuous (or downright mendacious, as in the bus) and on all these counts he deserves all the opprobrium he gets.

But he has been jumped on so ridiculously viciously not for his self-serving demagoguery on Brexit or anything else, but for making comments that are practically identical to ones made by the likes of Fry and Toynbee. And please don't give me any of that crap about "he's a senior politician and they're not" - everyone and their dog gets called out for anything they say these days, no-one can seriously suggest that the reason Fry and Toynbee haven't been condemned is because they somehow aren't serious enough.

Ben, your description of Johnson is hard to argue with. But the issue with which he is being beaten over the head is blatant political opportunism, and the reason it annoys me is not because I care in the slightest what happens to him - I think it would be a great thing if he moved full-time to writing almost-funny columns in the right-wing press - but because I am appalled at the way political debate is being conducted these days.

These words are wasted on Ben. He is one of the shouty faux enraged brigade when it is someones he disagrees with.

He is one of many on this forum like this. Calling them out for it makes no difference.

Whereas your outrage is the real deal!

Vino'sGhost

Slowmart wrote:

Look past BJ’s comments and instead look to his targeted audience which is more disturbing.

He’s targeting grass roots Tory support, which in itself tells you what the core Tory party are.

While BJ is crass and clumsy with words I’d suggest he’s being used by someone more politically intelligent as a lightening rod to get the right wing agenda in the public mind and then step in when the political capital of BJ is spent.

This is an another outcome from an unelectable opposition party as there is no political pressure for the Tory’s to align and become an effective government. If you don’t buy this how come Labour aren’t 15points ahead in the polls?

Historically the Tories killed their own at the first sign of political weakness which has it’s benefits. Pity it’s only metaphorical.

wheras we ponly need to look at corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists and we know what the labour party has unfortunately become. Racist, terrorist loving student activists.

Currently the labour party is killing all of its members who have a more balanced tolerant view of the world. Labour is good at social media but theyre a party of violent chip shouldered thugs.

surrey_commuter

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

Look past BJ’s comments and instead look to his targeted audience which is more disturbing.

He’s targeting grass roots Tory support, which in itself tells you what the core Tory party are.

While BJ is crass and clumsy with words I’d suggest he’s being used by someone more politically intelligent as a lightening rod to get the right wing agenda in the public mind and then step in when the political capital of BJ is spent.

This is an another outcome from an unelectable opposition party as there is no political pressure for the Tory’s to align and become an effective government. If you don’t buy this how come Labour aren’t 15points ahead in the polls?

Historically the Tories killed their own at the first sign of political weakness which has it’s benefits. Pity it’s only metaphorical.

wheras we ponly need to look at corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists and we know what the labour party has unfortunately become. Racist, terrorist loving student activists.

Currently the labour party is killing all of its members who have a more balanced tolerant view of the world. Labour is good at social media but theyre a party of violent chip shouldered thugs.

That is one hell of an accusation - could you post up some sources?

rjsterry

bompington wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

I take your point, Bomp, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over that c**t Johnson being treated unfairly.

Once again, a classic illustration of the sickness that has overwhelmed political discourse.

If you think it is OK to be unfair to one politician because they are on the other side / wrong / a prat, then you are shifting the whole basis of debate, and I am totally prepared to use the slippery slope argument here: there is a direct link from being happy to treat Johnson unfairly to "punch a Fascist", and from there to the Gulag and the gas chambers.

I get that Johnson is an 4rsehole. I get that his policies - insofar as they extend beyond the promotion of Boris, i.e. not far - are obnoxious and getting obnoxiouser, his campaigning is frequently disingenuous (or downright mendacious, as in the bus) and on all these counts he deserves all the opprobrium he gets.

But he has been jumped on so ridiculously viciously not for his self-serving demagoguery on Brexit or anything else, but for making comments that are practically identical to ones made by the likes of Fry and Toynbee. And please don't give me any of that crap about "he's a senior politician and they're not" - everyone and their dog gets called out for anything they say these days, no-one can seriously suggest that the reason Fry and Toynbee haven't been condemned is because they somehow aren't serious enough.

Ben, your description of Johnson is hard to argue with. But the issue with which he is being beaten over the head is blatant political opportunism, and the reason it annoys me is not because I care in the slightest what happens to him - I think it would be a great thing if he moved full-time to writing almost-funny columns in the right-wing press - but because I am appalled at the way political debate is being conducted these days.

I'm sure to a degree Rees Mogg is correct. Johnson's enemies within his own party will of course not pass up the opportunity, nor should they. I don't for a moment think he would blink before instigating something to undermine May or one of his competitors for her job. He's in absolutely no position to whine about political opportunism. It would be nice if the party focused on doing their job, but that seems a vain hope.

imposter2.0

Surrey Commuter wrote:

That is one hell of an accusation - could you post up some sources?

I don't think they're 'literally' being killed. Well, not yet, anyway...

ilovegrace

My opinion for whst it is worth.
Boris is no mug ,i am al abour supporter by the way, he knows public opinion . People have had enough ,brexit and trump tell you that ,he knows that on the surface we are pc in our views but underneath not so.
He knows that he has a huge support out there waiting for someone to say what they are thinking .
I amfrom the north east /yorkshire , in my small survey talkin to people up here thet totaly agree with what he says . Me . ? I will decidevatbthe ballot box and no one will ever know .

rjsterry

What did they agree with? All he said was that we shouldn't ban the burqa or niqab, which is a pretty mainstream view. And then he made some schoolboy jokes about them looking funny. In themselves pretty inconsequential (unless of course you are one of the <5000 Muslim women now having to worry about a few more idiots who feel licensed to shout abuse across the street), but a bad look for a party trying to show it doesn't have a problem with Muslims. And for someone who was our most senior diplomat only a few weeks ago. What's that got to do with this talk of people having had enough, and why so coy yourself?

imafatman

This slow creep of public discourse away from being "politically correct" and into "say whatever the fuck you feel like" is really quite dangerous and will be the undoing of this no longer Great Britain. The Brexit debate has damaged this country immeasurably. The Labour party are a farkin shambles of an opposition and the Conservative party are spending most of their time infighting during one of the most critical junctures of this country's history.

In a nutshell, we are absolutely fucked and it's going to takes decades to recover from this madness.

rolf_f

imafatman wrote:

This slow creep of public discourse away from being "politically correct" and into "say whatever the fark you feel like" is really quite dangerous and will be the undoing of this no longer Great Britain. The Brexit debate has damaged this country immeasurably. The Labour party are a farkin shambles of an opposition and the Conservative party are spending most of their time infighting during one of the most critical junctures of this country's history.

In a nutshell, we are absolutely farked and it's going to takes decades to recover from this madness.

If we cancel Brexit we'll probably be OK. Then the Tories can go back to part time infighting and part time actually managing the country and labour can concentrate on deciding whether there is any practical point in their existence whilst Corbyn is leading them.

surrey_commuter

imafatman wrote:

This slow creep of public discourse away from being "politically correct" and into "say whatever the fark you feel like" is really quite dangerous and will be the undoing of this no longer Great Britain. The Brexit debate has damaged this country immeasurably. The Labour party are a farkin shambles of an opposition and the Conservative party are spending most of their time infighting during one of the most critical junctures of this country's history.

In a nutshell, we are absolutely farked and it's going to takes decades to recover from this madness.

you are confusing cause and effect

rjsterry

A selection of views from women directly affected by Johnson's comments.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... nson-burqa

imafatman

Surrey Commuter wrote:

you are confusing cause and effect

I'm not. You are misattributing my comment as pointing blame, which I did not do. It was a general rant at the absolute shambles this country is in.

Our current issues go well beyond one individual or one party, and that's partly why it's so scary. It appears to be a much wider phenomenon of fu-k-wittery.

DeVlaeminck

rjsterry wrote:

A selection of views from women directly affected by Johnson's comments.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... nson-burqa

You should post that well known right winger Polly Toynbee's article too, according to some on here she is espousing racist views in print maybe have her up for hate crime.

surrey_commuter

imafatman wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

you are confusing cause and effect

I'm not. You are misattributing my comment as pointing blame, which I did not do. It was a general rant at the absolute shambles this country is in.

Our current issues go well beyond one individual or one party, and that's partly why it's so scary. It appears to be a much wider phenomenon of fu-k-wittery.

my point was that Tory party infighting has brought us to this critical point

veronese68

Rolf F wrote:

If we cancel Brexit we'll probably be OK.

I disagree, whilst I would prefer it if they did that the cat's out the bag, Pandora's box has been opened and the worms are well and truly out of the can. The country is more divided than it ever has been and if it were cancelled the leavers would kick off massively.
Civil war is the only way forward*.

* this bit is not entirely serious.

FishFish

Whilst I would not admit to supporting your view, I think that the concept of Pandora's box is valid. I think that the country is more divided and that it has provided an impetus to other states to reconsider their relationship with Europe to the extent that if we backtracked it would not be to the place we came from 2 years ago.

FishFish

imafatman wrote:

It was a general rant at the absolute shambles this country is in.

Your perspective. There is nothing wrong with this country - it is you that is the absolute shambles. You are an utter disgrace to it.

Stevo_666

DeVlaeminck wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

A selection of views from women directly affected by Johnson's comments.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... nson-burqa

You should post that well known right winger Polly Toynbee's article too, according to some on here she is espousing racist views in print maybe have her up for hate crime.

Interesting - got a link to that Toynbee article?

Stevo_666

imafatman wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

you are confusing cause and effect

I'm not. You are misattributing my comment as pointing blame, which I did not do. It was a general rant at the absolute shambles this country is in..

If you want a general negative, defeatist rant about your biased view on the state of the country, here's the thread for you:
https://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40088&t=13030866&start=7400

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

A selection of views from women directly affected by Johnson's comments.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... nson-burqa

You should post that well known right winger Polly Toynbee's article too, according to some on here she is espousing racist views in print maybe have her up for hate crime.

Interesting - got a link to that Toynbee article?

Here you go. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... slim-women

As mentioned, she's a patron of Humanists UK, so pretty opposed to religion of all kinds. The article seems fairly consistent with that, without the need for the schoolboy insults.

imafatman

FishFish wrote:

imafatman wrote:

It was a general rant at the absolute shambles this country is in.

Your perspective. There is nothing wrong with this country - it is you that is the absolute shambles. You are an utter disgrace to it.

I feel sorry for you having to resort to insulting me personally because I posted some words that you don't agree with. Oh well. That is the state of the some people in this country as you have so eloquently shown.