Boris Johnson's Burkha Comments

mfin

What do people make of what he's said, and how various people and groups are calling for action that should taken on him?

pblakeney

I should think that T.M. is laughing up her sleeve.

laurentian

At worst it demonstrates a deep seated and thinly veiled predjudice. At best it's highly impolite.

Either way it's unpleasant and f***ing stupid.

I hope it sounds the death knell on his embarassment of a political career.

mfin

My view is that it can only be taken for what it certainly is, and that is, it is rude and taking the p1ss out of a group of people for their appearance and they have a right to wear what they like just like everybody else.

Nobody can expect any group that is subject to a piss-take to be thick or thin skinned, and he's made these comments in a high profile newspaper. Now, as to whether it is divisive, prejudice or news seeking on one hand or just being daft on the other hand (and not thinking about what he's saying and how it is so likely to upset some people in one way or another) there can be nothing but speculation.

It's not good anyway.

bompington

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/a ... the-niqab/

imposter2.0

Eddie Mair had him sussed a few years back - "a nasty piece of work"...

CitizenLee

Build a bonfire,
Build a bonfire,
Put the Tories on the top
Put Boris in the middle,
and burn the f***ing lot!

imposter2.0

bompington wrote:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/as-a-muslim-woman-id-like-to-thank-boris-johnson-for-calling-out-the-niqab/

Anyone who thinks that Boris said that out of a 'genuine concern for the rights of Muslim women' hasn't been paying attention over the last couple of years...

cooldad

bompington wrote:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/as-a-muslim-woman-id-like-to-thank-boris-johnson-for-calling-out-the-niqab/

That's assuming BJ is subtle enough to understand the point that writer is making, and isn't just a total knob.

I go with the latter.

cruff

Suspect this is an extremely calculated and well-timed move on his part. He's right on the cusp of being able to challenge Theresa Won't for control. This is an exampleof the same sort of sh1t Trump pulls all the time - say something controversial, but not quite vile enough to get him ostracised completely, and use public reaction to it as a gauge of whether he can get away with it. The more ridiculous and outrageous things he says, eventually the bar for outrage will be set so high that actual, serious policies will be introduced quietly that erode freedoms and prop up the elite even more. It's what you get when you have no viable political alternative to capitalism - ten years of unfettered fu*king over of the rest of us by people with a vested interest in feathering their own nest, and carte blanche to d so.

Without invoking Godwin here, ooze like Johnson and Rees-Mogg are a pretty obvious standard bearer for introducing the acceptable face of fascism into modern politics through the back door. Its a dangerous time.

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/as-a-muslim-woman-id-like-to-thank-boris-johnson-for-calling-out-the-niqab/

I don't really get the point.

The woman is making a case to ban burka's, and is supportive of laws that allow the police to forcibly remove a woman's clothes if she's wearing a certain kind in public.

I mean, if that's the road you wanna go down that's fine (though I obviously will judge you if so), but what's the relevance here?

bianchimoon

He's going full on populist, taking Bannon's advice, He'll start to act more and more like Trump.. He's a deluded twunt.. as are the people who think he'd make a politician, never mind a prime minister.

imposter2.0

Cruff wrote:

Suspect this is an extremely calculated and well-timed move on his part. He's right on the cusp of being able to challenge Theresa Won't for control. This is an exampleof the same sort of sh1t Trump pulls all the time - say something controversial, but not quite vile enough to get him ostracised completely, and use public reaction to it as a gauge of whether he can get away with it. The more ridiculous and outrageous things he says, eventually the bar for outrage will be set so high that actual, serious policies will be introduced quietly that erode freedoms and prop up the elite even more. It's what you get when you have no viable political alternative to capitalism - ten years of unfettered fu*king over of the rest of us by people with a vested interest in feathering their own nest, and carte blanche to d so.

Without invoking Godwin here, ooze like Johnson and Rees-Mogg are a pretty obvious standard bearer for introducing the acceptable face of fascism into modern politics through the back door. Its a dangerous time.

Can't really add anything to that. Spot on.

rick_chasey

Rick Chasey wrote:

bompington wrote:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/as-a-muslim-woman-id-like-to-thank-boris-johnson-for-calling-out-the-niqab/

I don't really get the point.

The woman is making a case to ban burka's, and is supportive of laws that allow the police to forcibly remove a woman's clothes if she's wearing a certain kind in public.

I mean, if that's the road you wanna go down that's fine (though I obviously will judge you if so), but what's the relevance here?

Actually, it really isn’t fine.

Banning clothes I mean ffs.

No coincidence it always ends up with the women being forced to do this that or the other.

slowbike

cooldad wrote:

bompington wrote:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/as-a-muslim-woman-id-like-to-thank-boris-johnson-for-calling-out-the-niqab/

That's assuming BJ is subtle enough to understand the point that writer is making, and isn't just a total knob.

I go with the latter.

Oh I dunno - I think he can be a total knob whilst understanding politics and how to manipulate things - I'd be surprised if anything said wasn't done intentionally and with a clear understanding of the affects it may have.

It really is about time we banned religion from the world... it's just an excuse for the few to exert control over the masses.

Thigh_burn

I agree with Imposter to a point, in terms of this is BJ being highly calculated and positioning himself. I half wondered if he's hoping he'll get kicked out of the Tory party only to lead UKIP - although that feels very far fetched, even for a self-obsessed @rse like BJ.

I disagree that this comes down to capitalism. It's not perfect but it works. And one thing is for sure, 'the elites' do not like what he stands for, if by elites you mean media, business etc. If you mean old duffers, white van man and other broadly brushed stereotypes then maybe. But I'm not sure they're elite.

What Trump, BJ, Corbyn etc do show is the paucity of public debate. The quality of argument amongst politicians, media and the public has been reductive for years. When the global financial crisis is thrown into the mix, add a bit of an echo chamber on social media and it all becomes toxic.

cruff

The elites very much do like what he stands for. Because, underneath all the bile and grandstanding, what he stands for is keeping the masses firmly occupied with being at each others throats whilst his Bullingdon chums continue to absolutely rinse the country dry. Don't make the mistake of believing that the boll0cks he comes out with is anything other than a continuation of the divide and rule tactics the Tories have been using for decades

TheBigBean

How many people have actually read the article?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

How many people have actually read the article?

Me

TheBigBean

The BBC has a handy guide here on the differences between a hijab, a niqab and a burka. The burka seems much worse to me.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241

cruff

TheBigBean wrote:

How many people have actually read the article?

Me

drlodge

To steal a quote...

The Burka is the uniform of medieval patriarchal tyranny. It victim-blames women for their beauty. Where this is enforced it symbolises violent misogyny. I don't advocate banning this monstrosity but I refuse to defend it. It deserves to be ridiculed. Not the women inside it.

Women defending this have Stockholm syndrome. Liberals defending this are akin to conservatives defending the confederate flag. It is not racist to challenge religion (which is an idea, not a race). It is our civic duty. It is not offensive to remind everyone that this isn’t normal. It is offensive to advocate for this to become normalised.

cooldad

TheBigBean wrote:

How many people have actually read the article?

Me.

Pross

drlodge wrote:

To steal a quote...

The Burka is the uniform of medieval patriarchal tyranny. It victim-blames women for their beauty. Where this is enforced it symbolises violent misogyny. I don't advocate banning this monstrosity but I refuse to defend it. It deserves to be ridiculed. Not the women inside it.

Women defending this have Stockholm syndrome. Liberals defending this are akin to conservatives defending the confederate flag. It is not racist to challenge religion (which is an idea, not a race). It is our civic duty. It is not offensive to remind everyone that this isn’t normal. It is offensive to advocate for this to become normalised.

Thing is, it's not even a religious requirement just a narrow interpretation by elements who want to use religion to control things. I believe that use of the burka is quite low in Iran which I suspect most people would consider a fairly hardline Muslim country. Johnson has taken the completely wrong route if he wants to challenge its use as he is ridiculing people who potentially would rather not where it but are forced to and that is where the focus should be.

mfin

I'm not convinced Boris or most people know what a Burkha is, I think a hell of lot of people in the UK who see a woman wearing a Niqab would refer to it as a Burkha?

TheBigBean

Pross wrote:

Thing is, it's not even a religious requirement just a narrow interpretation by elements who want to use religion to control things. I believe that use of the burka is quite low in Iran which I suspect most people would consider a fairly hardline Muslim country.

The burka is not worn in Iran. The chador is the most conservative option commonly worn in Iran which does not cover faces, but looks like a right pain if you need to use your arms. Iran is not really a hardline muslim country, but that is a discussion for another thread. As an aside, an Islamic scholar in Iran told me that he wasn't sure which Koran the Taliban were reading because their interpretation bore no resemblance to the one he was reading - Salman Rushie did deserve to die though apparently.

drlodge

Pross wrote:

Thing is, it's not even a religious requirement just a narrow interpretation by elements who want to use religion to control things. I believe that use of the burka is quite low in Iran which I suspect most people would consider a fairly hardline Muslim country. Johnson has taken the completely wrong route if he wants to challenge its use as he is ridiculing people who potentially would rather not where it but are forced to and that is where the focus should be.

Agree on the first part, but I think BoJO's error, if there was one, was to say things that seemed to ridicule the women rather than the idea of wearing the clothing.

Perhaps rather than apologise, he should clarify what he meant...the niqab/burka/face covering bin bag outfit is a ridiculous idea and is not the norm in the civilised secular western world.

rick_chasey

drlodge wrote:

To steal a quote...

The Burka is the uniform of medieval patriarchal tyranny. It victim-blames women for their beauty. Where this is enforced it symbolises violent misogyny. I don't advocate banning this monstrosity but I refuse to defend it. It deserves to be ridiculed. Not the women inside it.

Women defending this have Stockholm syndrome. Liberals defending this are akin to conservatives defending the confederate flag. It is not racist to challenge religion (which is an idea, not a race). It is our civic duty. It is not offensive to remind everyone that this isn’t normal. It is offensive to advocate for this to become normalised.

It’s quite easy to make a similar case about misogyny and bikinis if you want to, but I imagine the women who get harassed by men making advances and cat called are indeed bringing on themselves, especially if they are good looking.

:roll:

It’s all men arguing about what women can and can’t wear. Just let people wear what they want to wear.

coopster_the_1st

It's the usual liberal shouty mob trying to out do each other with their faux outrage.

They are scared of having a grown-up conversation on the issue raised and thus suppress the issue underground.

Then they come out all offended again when reality bites them because the issue can no longer be suppressed. Brexit being a perfect example of this.

Then there is the left leaning media who are using this as an excuse to bury their current problems that the political side they support are having.

And all the above groups are looking for any opportunity to discredit and trash the reputation of anyone who supported Brexit as some sort of revenge thing.

The Danish are a great nation of people and I support the ban they have put in place. I would ban the burka and niqab in the UK because of the underlying religious reasons that means women wear them.

What this uproar really proves is that there are large groups of people in the UK who have demonstrated they are not grown-up enough to have an adult conversation on this subject.

rolf_f

mfin wrote:

I'm not convinced Boris or most people know what a Burkha is, I think a hell of lot of people in the UK who see a woman wearing a Niqab would refer to it as a Burkha?

At the risk of being a bit of a Bojo, is it just me or does that look like a set of Buff instructions?...........

cooldad

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I'm a knob like Boris.