TDF 2018, Stage 12: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs > Alpe d'Huez 19/07/2018 - 175,5 km *Spoilers*
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:Sounds almost exactly like the American fans moaning when Armstrong was getting grief on the alp in 2004.
Guys, it's pretty simple. The crowds don't like riders who dominate too much.
Anquetil got booed, Merckx got booed. Indurain got booed. Armstrong got booed.
It comes with the territory.
Very true but imagine the reaction if France came to Wembley to play England in a friendly and every time France got the ball the crowd booed?
The booing is annoying but it shows that Sky and Froome continually winning is getting to these knobs which is great. If the winning has to be accompanied by booing then bring on the booing I say! I'd sooner they win and be unpopular than be popular, heroic failures.0 -
It's more than just people not liking dominating teams.
There's a huge doubt in people's minds about the salbutomol thing, then another massive one about when it came out that wiggins had been injecting triamcinolone which we know can be performance enhancing. In fact, the likelihood is that it was, even if he did have a legally legitimate TUE for it.
So, once you have a dominating team that appear can't be trusted, or certainly look like they have things to hide or have hidden things, you're going to get a lot of people not liking them. It is a national thing too, the french are way more aggressive and vocal about it on the roadsides than the italians were in the Giro.
The dullness thing doesn't help for some, Brailsford was a figurehead, he's unlikeably dull, but then again this dullness element probably doesn't count for much, most people and most cycling fans are incredibly dull anyway. Chances are your average person who is dull didn't see someone like Brailsford as dull because they are dull themselves.
I also think people muddy the waters when you see a crowd on the Alpe like that which is full of idiots, a load of booing and people connect: idiots --> aggression --> anti-sky, whereas the vast majority of the idiots probably aren't aggressively anti-sky.0 -
ddraver wrote:As Rick says, if you win 5 TdFs you get booed on the last one
I'd also say that I don't think it's as much of a big deal in France as it is here. We get our british knickers in a twist about showing a feeling. For the French it's just a bit of a larf...
yes, we have pantomimes and boo the bad guys, they have the tour and boo the bad guys. in many ways brailsford has created a pantomime villain of Sky0 -
hypster wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Sounds almost exactly like the American fans moaning when Armstrong was getting grief on the alp in 2004.
Guys, it's pretty simple. The crowds don't like riders who dominate too much.
Anquetil got booed, Merckx got booed. Indurain got booed. Armstrong got booed.
It comes with the territory.
Very true but imagine the reaction if France came to Wembley to play England in a friendly and every time France got the ball the crowd booed?
The booing is annoying but it shows that Sky and Froome continually winning is getting to these knobs which is great. If the winning has to be accompanied by booing then bring on the booing I say! I'd sooner they win and be unpopular than be popular, heroic failures.
yes but that ignores the facts, its more than just winning, its the manner in which its been done. There are real questions about the legitimacy of some of those wins0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:SpecialGuestStar wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:Perhaps they just aren't that popular because of the boring personalities, perceived arrogance, fudging of grey areas re doping, the sally and jiffy bag scandals and all the broo ha ha and committees and lost computers and stuff, the fact that its Murdoch behind them, amongst others.
You know, small things that don't really endear you to people when you are trying to create a following for your sporting team.
He's right you know
Cock.
Few of those yobs, yesterday, have a followed the grey area stories.
There just hasn't been the appetite for them in Europe. Non stories, pretty much.
Bu*ger all to being dull, too. If it were, how come Quintana missing the treatment?
It's all down to Froome's AAF and how it has been played out and depicted.
It is due the atmosphere created and fueled by certain factions of the press and a few high profile individuals seeking to "look after themselves." Plus a national trait or two.
Posted on BBC HYS just a few minutes ago.Two of my sons are at the Tour. On both stage 11 and 12 yesterday GT and Froome were singled out for abuse by French fans. My lads said they witnessed French fans spitting and had water guns filled with urine and were shouting obscenities. My boys met up with some Welsh lads and they all witnessed the crowd throwing water bottles etc. The French hate us because we are winners.
Spot on.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
That was exactly how I saw itTopper harley wrote:
Check Bardets twitter, he says he was wrong to attack, you could see during the race the other 3 sat upRick Chasey wrote:Topper harley wrote:
They waited...well G, Froome and tom did....Bardet didn’tTailWindHome wrote:Nibali was 13secs down on Thomas on Alpe D'huez with a fractured vertebra
Respect.
Eh?
Unless you have something concrete that says otherwise they were racing each other and it got tactical, hence they slowed.0 -
Vino'sGhost wrote:hypster wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Sounds almost exactly like the American fans moaning when Armstrong was getting grief on the alp in 2004.
Guys, it's pretty simple. The crowds don't like riders who dominate too much.
Anquetil got booed, Merckx got booed. Indurain got booed. Armstrong got booed.
It comes with the territory.
Very true but imagine the reaction if France came to Wembley to play England in a friendly and every time France got the ball the crowd booed?
The booing is annoying but it shows that Sky and Froome continually winning is getting to these knobs which is great. If the winning has to be accompanied by booing then bring on the booing I say! I'd sooner they win and be unpopular than be popular, heroic failures.
yes but that ignores the facts, its more than just winning, its the manner in which its been done. There are real questions about the legitimacy of some of those wins
The only questions those Alpe "fans" were asking is: "Do I have enough beer to last the day?" and "Which bottle did I p*ss in?" when the time came."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
hypster wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Sounds almost exactly like the American fans moaning when Armstrong was getting grief on the alp in 2004.
Guys, it's pretty simple. The crowds don't like riders who dominate too much.
Anquetil got booed, Merckx got booed. Indurain got booed. Armstrong got booed.
It comes with the territory.
Very true but imagine the reaction if France came to Wembley to play England in a friendly and every time France got the ball the crowd booed?
The booing is annoying but it shows that Sky and Froome continually winning is getting to these knobs which is great. If the winning has to be accompanied by booing then bring on the booing I say! I'd sooner they win and be unpopular than be popular, heroic failures.
Mate, booing is fairly standard.0 -
hypster wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Sounds almost exactly like the American fans moaning when Armstrong was getting grief on the alp in 2004.
Guys, it's pretty simple. The crowds don't like riders who dominate too much.
Anquetil got booed, Merckx got booed. Indurain got booed. Armstrong got booed.
It comes with the territory.
Very true but imagine the reaction if France came to Wembley to play England in a friendly and every time France got the ball the crowd booed?
The booing is annoying but it shows that Sky and Froome continually winning is getting to these knobs which is great. If the winning has to be accompanied by booing then bring on the booing I say! I'd sooner they win and be unpopular than be popular, heroic failures.
The French boo their own teams, watch a 6 nations match and if the team aren't playing the way their supporters want (even if leading) they'll get on their backs. The opposition kicker gets booed - it's what they do and as said above it's not the big deal we might take it for. If the French team got booed at Wembley I doubt the French would care. The bigger issue is the throwing stuff / making physical contact with riders etc. and I suspect that's not just the French more just the type of people who hang out in The Clinic or are disciples of certain individuals on Twitter. I actually feel some sympathy towards people who go to all that trouble to be at a bike race but are incapable of just enjoying it for the spectacle it is. It's just a bit sad really.0 -
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I don't warm to Nibali, but riding up to the top and practically catching the leading group with a cracked vertebrae deserves significant applause.2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
I think booing a perceived villain is fine.
Chucking bodily fluids and punching just marks you out as a cock.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Just on crowd size, is it me being nostalgic for the old days or did the Lance bring out bigger crowds?You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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When was the last time someone rode back to back MTF? And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
Seriously, how many of you have been on a French mountain-top finish? Turn round and the person next to you is far more likely to be Dutch, Norwegian, Belgian, Russian, German, Austrian, Swiss or even a Brit. Doubly so on Alpe D'Huez. The French are more likely to be ensconced in their local village watching the race on TV, popping outside for the Caravan and the riders passing by. Those that do bother to traipse up the mountain are generally among the better behaved, less excitable spectators, in my experience.0
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Groenewegen five days ago.larkim wrote:And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?0 -
He said two back to back stage winners. Groenewegen was one, Thomas the secondOnYourRight wrote:
Groenewegen five days ago.larkim wrote:And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?
The answer is 1999. Tom Steels won two stages, then Cipollini won four in a row, then Armstrong won two stages either side of a rest day. (And those eight stages were all consecutive)Twitter: @RichN950 -
Interesting that both Nieve and Landa don't seem to be able to reproduce their Sky performances since changing team. Is this just down to being (once) part of the strongest team in the world?BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
RichN95 wrote:
He said two back to back stage winners. Groenewegen was one, Thomas the secondOnYourRight wrote:
Groenewegen five days ago.larkim wrote:And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?
'99.
Lance & Cipo0 -
Nieve is only as good as his team leader. And he was 200m short of a stage win. He's a good bet for one in the Pyrenees.davidof wrote:Interesting that both Nieve and Landa don't seem to be able to reproduce their Sky performances since changing team. Is this just down to being (once) part of the strongest team in the world?
Similar with Landa. His best GT results have been as a number two to a strong leader.Twitter: @RichN950 -
No, that's just one person. "Two back to back stage winners" - i.e. Groenewegen AND Thomas.OnYourRight wrote:
Groenewegen five days ago.larkim wrote:And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?
Couldn't see that repeated in the last 10 years, must be fairly unusual.2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
Can any stat be valid if it includes LA? But thanks for looking at it, didn't think it was that common.Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
He said two back to back stage winners. Groenewegen was one, Thomas the secondOnYourRight wrote:
Groenewegen five days ago.larkim wrote:And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?
'99.
Lance & Cipo2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
I yearn for the good old days when a mountain top finish is accompanied by a polite ripple of respectful applause as the riders pass by. When was that again.....0
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Fab, thanks!!RichN95 wrote:
He said two back to back stage winners. Groenewegen was one, Thomas the secondOnYourRight wrote:
Groenewegen five days ago.larkim wrote:And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?
The answer is 1999. Tom Steels won two stages, then Cipollini won four in a row, then Armstrong won two stages either side of a rest day. (And those eight stages were all consecutive)2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
larkim wrote:
Can any stat be valid if it includes LA? But thanks for looking at it, didn't think it was that common.Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
He said two back to back stage winners. Groenewegen was one, Thomas the secondOnYourRight wrote:
Groenewegen five days ago.larkim wrote:And when was the last time there were two back to back stage winners in the same Tour?
'99.
Lance & Cipo
Yes because he was in the race and the race was conducted as him as the winner.0 -
Great win by G. Hopefully he doesn't have a bad day this month.
Other reasons fans might dislike sky:
Said they wanted to be most admired sports team & preached clean. Refused to join MPCC, let rider race when MPCC rules prevented it ie not being as "clean" as half the peloton claim to be.
Cycling is a sport built on passion, sky tried to eliminate the inefficiency caused by passion. They raced in such a boring but effective way in early years (not so bad now, but difficult to change perceptions)
Team cars v rarely acknowledged support roadside in first 4 or 5 years. Nearly all team cars wave or beep horns (especially on TT recce) but sky notably didn't. This refusal to engage alienated fans. I've only been to Giro last couple of years but they seem much more wavey now, perhaps finally realised their refusal to engage created a marginal loss.0 -
Guarantee you 95% of people by the side of the road and watching won't know what the hell the MPCC is.RoadPainter wrote:Great win by G. Hopefully he doesn't have a bad day this month.
Other reasons fans might dislike sky:
Said they wanted to be most admired sports team & preached clean. Refused to join MPCC, let rider race when MPCC rules prevented it ie not being as "clean" as half the peloton claim to be.
s.
Rather like any topic, people make up their views based on their gut and how it fits in with their general perception of the world and will go with it.
"Cyclists dope, I don't like Froome, and Froome wins a lot, ergo he's doping. This is evidenced by me watching him win even though he looks like he's permanently falling off his bike." I imagine is quite a common thought process.0 -
It's 95% the winning too much thing. Sky are the cycling equivalent of late Ferguson era Man. United.Rick Chasey wrote:
Guarantee you 95% of people by the side of the road and watching won't know what the hell the MPCC is.RoadPainter wrote:Great win by G. Hopefully he doesn't have a bad day this month.
Other reasons fans might dislike sky:
Said they wanted to be most admired sports team & preached clean. Refused to join MPCC, let rider race when MPCC rules prevented it ie not being as "clean" as half the peloton claim to be.
s.
Rather like any topic, people make up their views based on their gut and how it fits in with their general perception of the world and will go with it.
"Cyclists dope, I don't like Froome, ergo Froome wins a lot. This is evidenced by me watching him win even though he looks like he's permanently falling off his bike." I imagine is quite a common thought process.0
