TDF 2018, Stage 12: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs > Alpe d'Huez 19/07/2018 - 175,5 km *Spoilers*

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  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    Topper harley wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Topper harley wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    And if Richie Porte had still been in at this point, I think we would have been witnessing a very different race.
    And what has Porte ever showed in a grand tour that would have changed this race?
    He's a rider that is willing to attack and can do it effectively. And he has a time trial to provide a threat. Sky said they saw him as their no.1 threat.
    again has he shown that in grand tours?


    you can't say someone will change a race when he hasn't shown he can ever do that, a strong week racer doesn't make a good grand tour winner

    But he has shown it in numerous races over the years. If he hadn't crashed out the last two years you would have seen that. If you can't extrapolate his past performances for Sky etc. as a domestique then you obviously have a very limited experience of pro cycling.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Topper harley wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Topper harley wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    And if Richie Porte had still been in at this point, I think we would have been witnessing a very different race.
    And what has Porte ever showed in a grand tour that would have changed this race?
    He's a rider that is willing to attack and can do it effectively. And he has a time trial to provide a threat. Sky said they saw him as their no.1 threat.
    again has he shown that in grand tours?
    Yes. Don't just look at results.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • curium
    curium Posts: 815
    What do you guys think of Bruyneel's opinion that Geraint Thomas climbs like a Roleur, using a big gear and that he won't go so well in the Pyrenees as they're better suited to pure climbers?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    My first thought was 'track background'...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    curium wrote:
    What do you guys think of Bruyneel's opinion that Geraint Thomas climbs like a Roleur, using a big gear and that he won't go so well in the Pyrenees as they're better suited to pure climbers?
    I agree. Dumoulin will be less comfortable too. Froome usually goes better in the Pyrenees. Movistar will go better too.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tim000
    tim000 Posts: 718
    RichN95 wrote:
    curium wrote:
    What do you guys think of Bruyneel's opinion that Geraint Thomas climbs like a Roleur, using a big gear and that he won't go so well in the Pyrenees as they're better suited to pure climbers?
    I agree. Dumoulin will be less comfortable too. Froome usually goes better in the Pyrenees. Movistar will go better too.
    couldn`t do much worse :shock: (ok landa has done okish)
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    Whether Froome will go 1:39 better than Thomas (and Movistar go better by 4+ minutes when you consider the upcoming time trial) is the question. I have no idea.

    Giro fatigue may play a role too, not least in making Froome and Dumoulin more prone to falling sick.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    curium wrote:
    What do you guys think of Bruyneel's opinion that Geraint Thomas climbs like a Roleur, using a big gear and that he won't go so well in the Pyrenees as they're better suited to pure climbers?

    Have to say, when it comes to tactics (especially tactics he’s not involved in) you wouldn’t bet against Bruyneel...
    _
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    But this is an observation on physiology, not tactics. I don’t put much stock in predictions based on how someone looks. Over the decades Tour winners have had every sort of pedalling style.

    If Thomas fails in the Pyrenees it’ll be because he’s a rouleur, not because he pedals like one.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    OnYourRight wrote:
    But this is an observation on physiology, not tactics. I don’t put much stock in predictions based on how someone looks. Over the decades Tour winners have had every sort of pedalling style.

    If Thomas fails in the Pyrenees it’ll be because he’s a rouleur, not because he pedals like one.

    I’d suggest Bruyneel picked up more from Dr Ferrari than you have, following cycling.
    _
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    But this is an observation on physiology, not tactics. I don’t put much stock in predictions based on how someone looks. Over the decades Tour winners have had every sort of pedalling style.

    If Thomas fails in the Pyrenees it’ll be because he’s a rouleur, not because he pedals like one.

    I’d suggest Bruyneel picked up more from Dr Ferrari than you have, following cycling.
    I don't even think he picked it up from Ferrari. He just knows his stuff. As does Nico Portal.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    RichN95 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    But this is an observation on physiology, not tactics. I don’t put much stock in predictions based on how someone looks. Over the decades Tour winners have had every sort of pedalling style.

    If Thomas fails in the Pyrenees it’ll be because he’s a rouleur, not because he pedals like one.

    I’d suggest Bruyneel picked up more from Dr Ferrari than you have, following cycling.
    I don't even think he picked it up from Ferrari. He just knows his stuff. As does Nico Portal.

    I’m sure he picked up a fair bit - after all, the physiological prep (so to speak) was one of his team’s strengths
    _
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Delete
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    Quintana pushes a big gear.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Dumolin was complaining he was feeling very bad Fay this stage.

    Suspect week three might be a week too far.
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,318
    Take Dumoulin out of the equation and it will be a tedious TdF unless you are a Sky/Froome/GT fan. The conspiracies will have to be ramped up to keep it interesting.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Take Dumoulin out of the equation and it will be a tedious TdF unless you are a Sky/Froome/GT fan. The conspiracies will have to be ramped up to keep it interesting.
    Take Nibali out of it and it's disappointing. But hey, Flares! Fancy Dress! Selfies!
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • topper_harley
    topper_harley Posts: 597
    RichN95 wrote:
    Topper harley wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Topper harley wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    And if Richie Porte had still been in at this point, I think we would have been witnessing a very different race.
    And what has Porte ever showed in a grand tour that would have changed this race?
    He's a rider that is willing to attack and can do it effectively. And he has a time trial to provide a threat. Sky said they saw him as their no.1 threat.
    again has he shown that in grand tours?
    Yes. Don't just look at results.

    Bit hard when it’s a result driven business :lol:
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    OnYourRight wrote:
    But this is an observation on physiology, not tactics. I don’t put much stock in predictions based on how someone looks. Over the decades Tour winners have had every sort of pedalling style.

    If Thomas fails in the Pyrenees it’ll be because he’s a rouleur, not because he pedals like one.

    The theory that pushing a small gear limits muscle damage and cumulative fatigue may have something to it but as far as Thomas' pedalling style being unsuited to the pyrenees I agree - Bruyneel is talking out of his arse.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called "The Pledge". The magician shows you something ordinary: Christopher Froome is our leader.
    He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal.

    The second act is called "The Turn". The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Geraint Thomas in the Yellow Jersey. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back.

    That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call "The Prestige". Christopher Froome again.

    - The Prestige, an absolutely brilliant film if you haven't seen it
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,318
    RichN95 wrote:
    - The Prestige, an absolutely brilliant film if you haven't seen it
    Completely ripped of by the inferior Now you See me.
    But we diverge... Then again it is a two day old spoilers thread... :wink:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited July 2018
    PBlakeney wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    - The Prestige, an absolutely brilliant film if you haven't seen it
    Completely ripped of by the inferior Now you See me.
    But we diverge... Then again it is a two day old spoilers thread... :wink:
    I really liked Now You See Me. Not in the same league as The Prestige, but an enjoyable sub Ocean's 11 romp. (I'm a sucker for heist movies - my favourite genre by far)

    Recommendations: Heist, Rififi, The Killing and Inside Man. I see Froome's Giro win as a real heist movie. If only there was great heist movie that could give that a name.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    Going back to Bruyneel for a moment, he had this to say about the Nibali incident. He makes a lot of sense.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BldPmfkhwnE/
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    I'm looking forward to Wiggins insight on itv4 tomorrow. Also waiting for Landa to show the climbing ability that he used to ferry Froome up the mountains last year with Sky. Lets see what Landa can bring to the table for the Movistar team.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    RichN95 wrote:
    - The Prestige, an absolutely brilliant film if you haven't seen it

    It's overrated. Michael Caine chewing the scenery looking for an Oscar.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    - The Prestige, an absolutely brilliant film if you haven't seen it
    It's overrated. Michael Caine chewing the scenery looking for an Oscar.
    But it's not that rated. Few have seen it, despite it's superstar director. And where would a Chris Nolan film be without Michael Caine turning up to explain the plot?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    RichN95 wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    - The Prestige, an absolutely brilliant film if you haven't seen it
    It's overrated. Michael Caine chewing the scenery looking for an Oscar.
    But it's not that rated. Few have seen it, despite it's superstar director. And where would a Chris Nolan film be without Michael Caine turning up to explain the plot?
    You're the one who said it is absolutely brilliant!

    It's alright. Worth watching. Overly impressed with its own cleverness - it's very unnecessarily explained after the reveal, like it doesn't trust the audience to understand what is actually quite a simple plot
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    - The Prestige, an absolutely brilliant film if you haven't seen it
    It's overrated. Michael Caine chewing the scenery looking for an Oscar.
    But it's not that rated. Few have seen it, despite it's superstar director. And where would a Chris Nolan film be without Michael Caine turning up to explain the plot?
    You're the one who said it is absolutely brilliant!

    It's alright. Worth watching. Overly impressed with its own cleverness - it's very unnecessarily explained after the reveal, like it doesn't trust the audience to understand what is actually quite a simple plot
    I totally back it's brilliance. I was just saying it wasn't overrated because (apart from me) few banged on about it.

    (I'll admit to being a complete Chris Nolan fanboy. Like another Chris, I think he's up there with the true greats)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Well, Christopher Nolan does love overly detailed explanations of basic moral dilemmas
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Well, Christopher Nolan does love overly detailed explanations of basic moral dilemmas
    You say basic, I'd say fundamental. But ones with no easy answers. Themes of identity, time and reality placed into crowd pleasing blockbusters. The man is a master.

    There's few directors with ten films under their belt that haven't made a not good one. He's one of the few.
    Twitter: @RichN95

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