2018 classics thread

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  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    I am a big Sagan fan so, yes think that is why I suggested cutting weight and going for a GT.. Think the rose tinted specs are making me think he could do more than is maybe possible.

    Have said before though id love to see a GT without the high mountain passes and more riders going for the win.. not sure how it would work out in reality but seems the race revolves too much around the high mountain passes

    Re watch the Tour de Suisse which Cancellara won if you’re interested.

    Or for a more dated feel, the 1984 Giro.

    I remember Canc winning that Tour de Suisse but never saw the coverage \ route of that one. Another rider who was talked about as being able to shed weight and win a GT.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,867
    sherer wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    I am a big Sagan fan so, yes think that is why I suggested cutting weight and going for a GT.. Think the rose tinted specs are making me think he could do more than is maybe possible.

    Have said before though id love to see a GT without the high mountain passes and more riders going for the win.. not sure how it would work out in reality but seems the race revolves too much around the high mountain passes

    Re watch the Tour de Suisse which Cancellara won if you’re interested.

    Or for a more dated feel, the 1984 Giro.

    I remember Canc winning that Tour de Suisse but never saw the coverage \ route of that one. Another rider who was talked about as being able to shed weight and win a GT.

    it was pretty flat for a TdS
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    On Amstel Gold.

    I think a lot of people under-estimate how difficult it is, mainly because it has been difficult to watch in the past.

    Amstel is lumped with the two Ardenne races, Waalse Pijl and luik bastenaken luik, but, geographical differences aside (not the Ardenne innit), it's a different race in more ways.

    This is mainly because the race is a real cats cradle of a route. It makes the Tour of Flanders look like a broad sweep of a nation.

    Amstel twists and turns more often than any other; it has fairly dramatic road narrowing; often the traffic furniture lulls the watcher into thinking the road is wider than it is. LBL is a simple out and back; far fewer worries about cornering and positioning. Things therefore happen faster in Amstel than they would in LBL, which feels like it's on slow mo by comparision to Amstel, let alone MSR or Flanders.

    When the race winning break went last year, a lot of the interesting work was done in a very tricky descent into the Kruisberg. It's worthwhile paying attention to what is going on into the steep and twisty run ins into climbs in the final 60km; you'll normally be able to anticipate a big or important move long before it happens; all the top riders will suddenly be in the top 20 riders and their domestiques nowhere.

    It's so twisty that the wheels riders will use will be much shallower than in LBL; there's too much twisting and turning, slowing down and speeding up.

    It's also still 250km, so it's not to be sniffed at.

    The new route produced decent racing last year; hopefully it'll continue.
    _
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,649
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    I am a big Sagan fan so, yes think that is why I suggested cutting weight and going for a GT.. Think the rose tinted specs are making me think he could do more than is maybe possible.

    Have said before though id love to see a GT without the high mountain passes and more riders going for the win.. not sure how it would work out in reality but seems the race revolves too much around the high mountain passes

    Re watch the Tour de Suisse which Cancellara won if you’re interested.

    Or for a more dated feel, the 1984 Giro.

    Or the 2017 Tour of Britain
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,867
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    On Amstel Gold.

    its always struggled somewhat as a spectacle this race despite being a hard race. it's a very hard race to break up early, in fact the Ardennes races are all suffering from overly bunched up finishes these days.

    having a race that CAN but not always end in a bunch finish is the sweet spot. IE the end is an unpredictable affair. the finish line move a few years back made for a more fun ending with a small group forming in the final km over the crest of the Cauberg. but a long wait for a few mins tension, worse than M-S-R .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    Last year was a good one, no?
    _
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    mididoctors wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    I am a big Sagan fan so, yes think that is why I suggested cutting weight and going for a GT.. Think the rose tinted specs are making me think he could do more than is maybe possible.

    Have said before though id love to see a GT without the high mountain passes and more riders going for the win.. not sure how it would work out in reality but seems the race revolves too much around the high mountain passes
    Re watch the Tour de Suisse which Cancellara won if you’re interested.
    Or for a more dated feel, the 1984 Giro.
    I remember Canc winning that Tour de Suisse but never saw the coverage \ route of that one. Another rider who was talked about as being able to shed weight and win a GT.
    it was pretty flat for a TdS
    In his pre-race remarks before last year's Tour de Suisse, Sagan hinted he would try for the GC.
    But the 4th stage put the lid on that idea.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    Aside from the weight issues, I don't think Sagan has the mentality of a GC rider. To much ADHD. I just can't see him defending a lead by shutting down the racing for an actionless day. He'd be like 86 vintage Hinault.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    mididoctors wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    On Amstel Gold.

    It's worthwhile paying attention to what is going on into the steep and twisty run ins into climbs in the final 60km; you'll normally be able to anticipate a big or important move long before it happens; all the top riders will suddenly be in the top 20 riders and their domestiques nowhere.

    The new route produced decent racing last year; hopefully it'll continue.
    the finish line move a few years back made for a more fun ending with a small group forming in the final km over the crest of the Cauberg.
    Apparently the route has been slightly altered towards the end compared to last year, i.e. first between the Geulhemmerberg and the Bemelerberg, and then between the Bemelerberg and the finish, resulting in a narrower, curvier last 16 km.
    I suppose making it harder to control, and thus more favouring a solo- or small group- break occurring from over 20+ km out, so the decisive move developing definitely before the last time up the Cauberg.

    Last year in green, this year in red:

    Amstel_18_finale.jpg
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,867
    edited April 2018
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Last year was a good one, no?
    mmmmmm

    was better than most...about 17k to go it started to splitting for real IIRC. there is a lot of hectic attacking going for a lot of it but getting to follow it on screen is another matter. its not that it isn't a worthy test its more its problem as a spectacle.

    but like lbl and the fleche it is all about the end. its so difficult to stay away.


    flanders and PR are a different kettle of fish. there is a big range of strategic options in both on where and how.

    i'm over playing it a bit...you can't have everything. I'm still going to watch the thing. :)
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,867
    RichN95 wrote:
    Aside from the weight issues, I don't think Sagan has the mentality of a GC rider. To much ADHD. I just can't see him defending a lead by shutting down the racing for an actionless day. He'd be like 86 vintage Hinault.

    yeah ...thou he rode ToC very sensibly when he won it. and him/ his team has ridden very defensively covering the green jersey in the tour so operational tactics are not alien to him...thou in the case of the green jersey a lot of it comes down to trying to win the stages.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    knedlicky wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    I am a big Sagan fan so, yes think that is why I suggested cutting weight and going for a GT.. Think the rose tinted specs are making me think he could do more than is maybe possible.

    Have said before though id love to see a GT without the high mountain passes and more riders going for the win.. not sure how it would work out in reality but seems the race revolves too much around the high mountain passes
    Re watch the Tour de Suisse which Cancellara won if you’re interested.
    Or for a more dated feel, the 1984 Giro.
    I remember Canc winning that Tour de Suisse but never saw the coverage \ route of that one. Another rider who was talked about as being able to shed weight and win a GT.
    it was pretty flat for a TdS
    In his pre-race remarks before last year's Tour de Suisse, Sagan hinted he would try for the GC.
    But the 4th stage put the lid on that idea.
    Agreed.. too often in week long stage races he sits up as soon as the first hill comes into view.. seems if he cant sprint at the end of the stage he loses interest.
    Would love to see him go for a few multi day events, but maybe that's just because as a fan I want to see more of him winning. Will be interesting to see how well he goes in Amstel Gold
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,867
    knedlicky wrote:
    Apparently the route has been slightly altered towards the end compared to last year, i.e. first between the Geulhemmerberg and the Bemelerberg, and then between the Bemelerberg and the finish, resulting in a narrower, curvier last 16 km.
    I suppose making it harder to control, and thus more favouring a solo- or small group- break occurring from over 20+ km out, so the decisive move developing definitely before the last time up the Cauberg.

    yeah, it's not like the organisers aren't getting more thoughtful about it.

    it's a good thing.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Interestingly cyclingquotes has Sagan as favourite for Amstel Gold.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Milton50 wrote:
    Interestingly cyclingquotes has Sagan as favourite for Amstel Gold.
    So do most of the bookies. Can say the same for every one day race though!!

    Oddschecker has 1: Sagan, 2: Valverde, 3: Kwiato/Gilbert
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Well I'm surprised.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    It's a bloody great sportive I can say that. Put it on the bucket list.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,364
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    It's a bloody great sportive I can say that. Put it on the bucket list.

    You did it?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Pinno wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    It's a bloody great sportive I can say that. Put it on the bucket list.

    You did it?
    Who's asking?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    It's a bloody great sportive I can say that. Put it on the bucket list.

    You did it?
    Who's asking?
    Pinno is
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,364
    RichN95 wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    It's a bloody great sportive I can say that. Put it on the bucket list.

    You did it?
    Who's asking?
    Pinno is

    :D

    Well?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Yep. Absolutely cracking ride. Amazing roads and beautiful weather for us. Some of those bergs are bloody brutal though!

    26596392367_65b200d59d_z.jpg
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,364
    That's one hell of a selfie Mr Basso, how did you manage that?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    This is a long drag shortly before you come round to the Frogberg (or something). Almost all the participants were on the cycle path off the main road where a bit of traffic was building up as people couldn't get round. I went along the main road and my friend who I was riding with took it from the cycle path.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    Have to say: you know you're a serious cycling baller when you're sticking it in the big ring for the final sprint to the finish line after the final ascent of the Muur.

    Has been known to happen....
    _

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