2018 classics thread

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  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    That is a great background pic for his phone!
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,530
    M.R.M. wrote:
    That is a great background pic for his phone!

    Good idea. I'll suggest that to him.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    as Rick said would love to see him drop some weight and then see if he could target GC on either a week long stage race or GT. I'm sure he can do it, just don't think he's motivated enough to do that.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    sherer wrote:
    as Rick said would love to see him drop some weight and then see if he could target GC on either a week long stage race or GT. I'm sure he can do it, just don't think he's motivated enough to do that.
    Apparently it's thought he beefed up a bit for P-R.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    sherer wrote:
    as Rick said would love to see him drop some weight and then see if he could target GC on either a week long stage race or GT. I'm sure he can do it, just don't think he's motivated enough to do that.


    He's won California, I'm not sure that winning say a Paris Nice or Dauphine would rank that highly on his palmares even if he could compete. I'd rather see him lose a bit to try for a L-B-L or perhaps to solo away on the Poggio for a MSR. Whether Lombardy would be possible I don't know but a clean sweep would elevate him above any modern classics rider.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    as Rick said would love to see him drop some weight and then see if he could target GC on either a week long stage race or GT. I'm sure he can do it, just don't think he's motivated enough to do that.


    He's won California, I'm not sure that winning say a Paris Nice or Dauphine would rank that highly on his palmares even if he could compete. I'd rather see him lose a bit to try for a L-B-L or perhaps to solo away on the Poggio for a MSR. Whether Lombardy would be possible I don't know but a clean sweep would elevate him above any modern classics rider.

    The guys just won his second monument and you're talking about a clean sweep. What is it about Sagan?
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    The only race Peter Sagan *should* win, which he hasn't won yet and which would represent a notable gap on his CV is Milan San Remo
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    ...
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    sherer wrote:
    as Rick said would love to see him drop some weight and then see if he could target GC on either a week long stage race or GT.

    You seriously think he could win a GT?
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    I am sure ASO could make a course for him
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    I am sure ASO could make a course for him

    Was there a significant different to the course in the early 80's when Kelly was in the top ten?
    Or has cycling become more specialised.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    He will not be able to keep up at hors categorie climbs or at longer TT's. Sagan cannot win a GT. Even if he loses 10 kg's.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    GC at a GT sounds like a real ask.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    as Rick said would love to see him drop some weight and then see if he could target GC on either a week long stage race or GT. I'm sure he can do it, just don't think he's motivated enough to do that.


    He's won California, I'm not sure that winning say a Paris Nice or Dauphine would rank that highly on his palmares even if he could compete. I'd rather see him lose a bit to try for a L-B-L or perhaps to solo away on the Poggio for a MSR. Whether Lombardy would be possible I don't know but a clean sweep would elevate him above any modern classics rider.

    that win on the TOC was a great defensive ride plus the last day bonus grabbing but he was aided by a change to the TT stage slashing the km's and gradient...still a good win.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    TailWindHome wrote:
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    I am sure ASO could make a course for him

    Was there a significant different to the course in the early 80's when Kelly was in the top ten?
    Or has cycling become more specialised.
    More specialised and there's a much deeper, more international, talent pool. And teams have more money so they can have more than one star rider.

    As for Sagan, losing weight would make him like Gilbert or Alaphilippe, not Froome.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    mididoctors wrote:
    GC at a GT sounds like a real ask.

    LBL though.

    Hubba hubba.

    Alas, he gets paid too much to change the formula. You get the feeling he does the road for the money, not the love, nor the palmares.
    _
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    andyp wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    In order for Sagan to properly distance Boonen or Cancellara, he will need 1-2 years of double monument victories (of the 3 he can win).

    With the finish of L-B-L moving back into the centre of Liege next year, he could possibly target four monuments.

    I haven't looked into this. Will there be a longer run in after the final climb?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Alas, he gets paid too much to change the formula. You get the feeling he does the road for the money, not the love, nor the palmares.
    Yeah. I think there's much more chance of him branching off into cyclocross or mountain biking than riding GC. (The former I can see him genuinely doing some day)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    as Rick said would love to see him drop some weight and then see if he could target GC on either a week long stage race or GT. I'm sure he can do it, just don't think he's motivated enough to do that.


    He's won California, I'm not sure that winning say a Paris Nice or Dauphine would rank that highly on his palmares even if he could compete. I'd rather see him lose a bit to try for a L-B-L or perhaps to solo away on the Poggio for a MSR. Whether Lombardy would be possible I don't know but a clean sweep would elevate him above any modern classics rider.

    The guys just won his second monument and you're talking about a clean sweep. What is it about Sagan?

    In the context of him losing weight I'm suggesting winning Liege Bastogne Liege would be more likely the reason than to become a stage racer, I said I'm not sure Lombardy would be possible even with weight loss. It's certainly a more realistic target than a GC on a grand tour though. Yes he's "only" won 2 monuments but he's just turned 28 and also has 3 second places, 3 worlds wins and about half a dozen other classic wins.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    RichN95 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Alas, he gets paid too much to change the formula. You get the feeling he does the road for the money, not the love, nor the palmares.
    Yeah. I think there's much more chance of him branching off into cyclocross or mountain biking than riding GC. (The former I can see him genuinely doing some day)

    I want to see him do the omniyumyum
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,459
    He's on the start list for Amstel Gold which if memory serves he hasn't done for several years
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    GC at a GT sounds like a real ask.

    LBL though.

    Hubba hubba.

    Alas, he gets paid too much to change the formula. You get the feeling he does the road for the money, not the love, nor the palmares.

    more realistic..still a fair heft.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,576
    Milton50 wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    In order for Sagan to properly distance Boonen or Cancellara, he will need 1-2 years of double monument victories (of the 3 he can win).

    With the finish of L-B-L moving back into the centre of Liege next year, he could possibly target four monuments.

    I haven't looked into this. Will there be a longer run in after the final climb?

    I think so, yes. The traditional finish in Liege before the move to Ans used to see the Cote des Forges as the final climb, which is south east of Liege, about 15 kms from the finish. I don't know what ASOs plans are, but the Roche aux Faucons could be retained as a final climb, or they could have something else up their sleeve.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,530
    What a strange notion.

    In days of old, riders were virtually 'obligated' to ride everything from Classics to GT's. Bernard Hinault hated the classics but used to ride them (and win them). Hinault was exceptional, even in those days. Kelly won a Vuelta helped by a not too critically mountainous route (and Millar). I worked out that he placed an average (of the TdF's he finished) 26th. He only rode the Giro once in '92 and didn't finish.

    Nowadays, riders are almost clearly Grimpeur's or Rouleur's, or less coarsely, GT riders or one day riders. There is no greying of the disciplines bar domestique and on the odd occasion, super domestique roles. There is too much emphasis on the GT's by both teams and team leaders.
    Nibali has made the transition but that is from Tour rider to one dayers, not the other way around.

    So why can't we just see Sagan as a classics rider (with the odd stage in a GT) in his own right? Is it because being a classics rider has somehow less kudos than being a GT or minor tour rider?
    We remember Kelly as a legend, yet in his palmares, there is only one GT win in a very long career.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    Today's blind item: a rider named Felline contracts toxoplasmosis. :lol:
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Today's blind item: a rider named Felline contracts toxoplasmosis. :lol:
    Apparently it can be contracted from undercooked meat or cat faeces. Has the appropriately named Felline ain't got the sense enough to disregard his own faeces?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    It's an insane disease. The parasite that causes it makes mice sexually aroused to the smell of cat urine. So mice look for cats in order to get eaten, because the parasite proliferates in the cat gut. It mind controls the mice in a way. :D
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    I am a big Sagan fan so, yes think that is why I suggested cutting weight and going for a GT.. Think the rose tinted specs are making me think he could do more than is maybe possible.

    Have said before though id love to see a GT without the high mountain passes and more riders going for the win.. not sure how it would work out in reality but seems the race revolves too much around the high mountain passes
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    sherer wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sagan has the most fans. Especially among casual and semi casual cycling fans. They want to see him win everything. I think it's as simple as that.
    I am a big Sagan fan so, yes think that is why I suggested cutting weight and going for a GT.. Think the rose tinted specs are making me think he could do more than is maybe possible.

    Have said before though id love to see a GT without the high mountain passes and more riders going for the win.. not sure how it would work out in reality but seems the race revolves too much around the high mountain passes

    Re watch the Tour de Suisse which Cancellara won if you’re interested.

    Or for a more dated feel, the 1984 Giro.
    _

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