2018 classics thread

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  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    Sep but only cause i was willing him to get there
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    Dillier for the "hanging on for the grim death" award

    terpstra I guess but sagan delivers year after year.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Pinno wrote:
    BMC have had a howler.

    BMC letting Oss go to work for GvA's closest direct rival was a strange one - also for him as he's doing exactly the same type of job
  • hanshotfirst
    hanshotfirst Posts: 403
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sky as usual only caring about stage races (albeit people still argue that point here :wink: ).

    Quick Step as usual only caring about one day races then?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    Sagan has got top ten in all the monuments, plus strade bianche and Gent Wevelgem. That's consistency.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    mididoctors wrote:
    Dillier for the "hanging on for the grim death" award

    terpstra I guess but sagan delivers year after year.

    but still only two monument wins.. for a rider with his class he should have more on his palmares than that.. Although he does do well in the other classics.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Sagan has got top ten in all the monuments, plus strade bianche and Gent Wevelgem. That's consistency.
    Since the 2012 Tour de France, Alejandro Valverde has only once finished a stage race outside the top ten (12th in the 2016 Vuelta, his third GT that year).

    When Contador came 15th in the 2017 Tour of Abu Dhabi, it was the first time he had finished outside the top ten of stage race for ten years.

    As for the classics, van Avermaet was probably more consistent last year - and included 11th and 12th in Amstel and LBL.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Terpstra for the cobble bashing award. Sagan for the guts to do what he did and stay away with the very impressive Dillier.

    Quickstep unsurprisingly for the team award.

    Shocker for BMC and quite a few others.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    Kelly was 28 in 1984. Before that he had won one monument.

    His 1984 was a bit of a good year though. (Milan–San Remo 2nd, Tour of Flanders 2nd, Paris–Roubaix 1st, Liège–Bastogne–Liège 1st, Giro di Lombardia 17th)


    I think when considering Sagan it is a comparison worth making. Kelly had won a few other things including Paris-Nice, Tour de Suisse and 4 stages of the tour, but that compares with Sagan's 8 tour stage wins, 5 green jerseys and 3 world championships.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    What's Boonen got, 7 monuments and a world champs? Sagan is currently on 5, I'd say the World Champs is roughly equivalent to a monument, so Sagan should end his career up there with Boonen , possibly exceeding him. He's on target to be one of the greats, he'd have to go some to equal Merckx in the classics but it's a different era and Merckx is on a different level to anyone else.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    hanshotfirst wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sky as usual only caring about stage races (albeit people still argue that point here :wink: ).

    Quick Step as usual only caring about one day races then?

    Going to be a lot of work for Gaviria and Viviani come the GTs.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,576
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Sagan has got top ten in all the monuments, plus strade bianche and Gent Wevelgem. That's consistency.

    No he hasn't. He's never finished Lombardy, just two DNFs, and has never started Liege.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228
    andyp wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Sagan has got top ten in all the monuments, plus strade bianche and Gent Wevelgem. That's consistency.

    No he hasn't. He's never finished Lombardy, just two DNFs, and has never started Liege.

    Was answering the question about this year so far.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,576
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Kelly was 28 in 1984. Before that he had won one monument.

    His 1984 was a bit of a good year though. (Milan–San Remo 2nd, Tour of Flanders 2nd, Paris–Roubaix 1st, Liège–Bastogne–Liège 1st, Giro di Lombardia 17th)


    I think when considering Sagan it is a comparison worth making. Kelly had won a few other things including Paris-Nice, Tour de Suisse and 4 stages of the tour, but that compares with Sagan's 8 tour stage wins, 5 green jerseys and 3 world championships.

    1986 was even better - he won MSR and Roubaix, was 2nd at Flanders and Lombardy, and was 12th at Liege.

    He also won Paris-Nice, Pays Basque (between Flanders and Roubaix), Catalunya and was third at the Vuelta.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,576
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Sagan has got top ten in all the monuments, plus strade bianche and Gent Wevelgem. That's consistency.

    No he hasn't. He's never finished Lombardy, just two DNFs, and has never started Liege.

    Was answering the question about this year so far.

    Ah, right. Sorry. :oops:
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    What's Boonen got, 7 monuments and a world champs? Sagan is currently on 5, I'd say the World Champs is roughly equivalent to a monument, so Sagan should end his career up there with Boonen , possibly exceeding him. He's on target to be one of the greats, he'd have to go some to equal Merckx in the classics but it's a different era and Merckx is on a different level to anyone else.
    Boonen won his last monument aged 31. There's no guarantee that Sagan will keep winning indefinitely. Those who start winning young tend to stop winning young.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Terpstra comfortably the strongest rider over the cobbled classics.

    Be interesting to see who gets the better of who between Valverde and Gilbert over the next few weeks. Expect Kwiatkowski to be up there as well.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    andyp wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Kelly was 28 in 1984. Before that he had won one monument.

    His 1984 was a bit of a good year though. (Milan–San Remo 2nd, Tour of Flanders 2nd, Paris–Roubaix 1st, Liège–Bastogne–Liège 1st, Giro di Lombardia 17th)


    I think when considering Sagan it is a comparison worth making. Kelly had won a few other things including Paris-Nice, Tour de Suisse and 4 stages of the tour, but that compares with Sagan's 8 tour stage wins, 5 green jerseys and 3 world championships.

    1986 was even better - he won MSR and Roubaix, was 2nd at Flanders and Lombardy, and was 12th at Liege.

    He also won Paris-Nice, Pays Basque (between Flanders and Roubaix), Catalunya and was third at the Vuelta.

    Indeed. Sagan might start falling behind the Kelly curve soon. Especially as he doesn't enter some of the big races. I still think it is a useful comparison when people suggest he hasn't won enough already.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Kelly was 28 in 1984. Before that he had won one monument.

    His 1984 was a bit of a good year though. (Milan–San Remo 2nd, Tour of Flanders 2nd, Paris–Roubaix 1st, Liège–Bastogne–Liège 1st, Giro di Lombardia 17th)


    I think when considering Sagan it is a comparison worth making. Kelly had won a few other things including Paris-Nice, Tour de Suisse and 4 stages of the tour, but that compares with Sagan's 8 tour stage wins, 5 green jerseys and 3 world championships.

    plus one ToC title. He could do better at stage races but seems the season is different to how it was in the 80s. I'm sure he could power over the hillier one day races too
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    TheBigBean wrote:

    Indeed. Sagan might start falling behind the Kelly curve soon. Especially as he doesn't enter some of the big races. I still think it is a useful comparison when people suggest he hasn't won enough already.

    what could he win that he hasn't won already? for instance, does he bother going for the points jerseys in the giro and vuelta?

    milan san remo maybe?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    mididoctors wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:

    Indeed. Sagan might start falling behind the Kelly curve soon. Especially as he doesn't enter some of the big races. I still think it is a useful comparison when people suggest he hasn't won enough already.

    what could he win that he hasn't won already? for instance, does he bother going for the points jerseys in the giro and vuelta?

    milan san remo maybe?

    Would love him to try the wiggins diet for a few seasons. Not gonna happen.
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:

    Indeed. Sagan might start falling behind the Kelly curve soon. Especially as he doesn't enter some of the big races. I still think it is a useful comparison when people suggest he hasn't won enough already.

    what could he win that he hasn't won already? for instance, does he bother going for the points jerseys in the giro and vuelta?

    milan san remo maybe?

    Would love him to try the wiggins diet for a few seasons. Not gonna happen.

    would need to lose shed loads to do anything in the Ardennes or on GC.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    You don't think he's got a fair bit to lose?
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,031
    mididoctors wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:

    Indeed. Sagan might start falling behind the Kelly curve soon. Especially as he doesn't enter some of the big races. I still think it is a useful comparison when people suggest he hasn't won enough already.

    what could he win that he hasn't won already? for instance, does he bother going for the points jerseys in the giro and vuelta?

    milan san remo maybe?

    He could win MSR, but he tries to do that every year. He also win things he has already won again.

    My point mainly was that in comparison with Kelly, he has never entered the Giro, and only finished the Vuelta once, and he has never started LBL.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    You don't think he's got a fair bit to lose?

    honestly dont know..i would guess a fair bit.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    TheBigBean wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:

    Indeed. Sagan might start falling behind the Kelly curve soon. Especially as he doesn't enter some of the big races. I still think it is a useful comparison when people suggest he hasn't won enough already.

    what could he win that he hasn't won already? for instance, does he bother going for the points jerseys in the giro and vuelta?

    milan san remo maybe?

    He could win MSR, but he tries to do that every year. He also win things he has already won again.

    My point mainly was that in comparison with Kelly, he has never entered the Giro, and only finished the Vuelta once, and he has never started LBL.

    Points jerseys in the other GTs would be a start, surely.

    Of course this is assuming his main goal in life is to develop the kind of rounded palmares which satisfies purist fans...
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,486
    hanshotfirst wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Sky as usual only caring about stage races (albeit people still argue that point here :wink: ).
    Quick Step as usual only caring about one day races then?
    Absolutely. Question of budget does come into that though. "Of those who have much, much is expected." :wink:

    Kwiatkowski can turn it all around for Sky in the Ardennes. I'll be in Mallorca for the week, so won't be super active here, but let's see if Gilbert comes storming back in his back garden or if Alaphilippe (finally) wins big or if Kwiatkowski can save Sky's classics campaign. :wink:

    In order for Sagan to properly distance Boonen or Cancellara, he will need 1-2 years of double monument victories (of the 3 he can win).
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,576
    M.R.M. wrote:
    In order for Sagan to properly distance Boonen or Cancellara, he will need 1-2 years of double monument victories (of the 3 he can win).

    With the finish of L-B-L moving back into the centre of Liege next year, he could possibly target four monuments.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    RichN95 wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    What's Boonen got, 7 monuments and a world champs? Sagan is currently on 5, I'd say the World Champs is roughly equivalent to a monument, so Sagan should end his career up there with Boonen , possibly exceeding him. He's on target to be one of the greats, he'd have to go some to equal Merckx in the classics but it's a different era and Merckx is on a different level to anyone else.
    Boonen won his last monument aged 31. There's no guarantee that Sagan will keep winning indefinitely. Those who start winning young tend to stop winning young.

    I agree - was making the point that a comparison with Kelly isn't necessarily that meaningful given Kelly's career trajectory is not the norm. I'd call Boonen a great and it'd be a disappointing end to Sagan's career if he didn't end up on a similar number of monuments/olympics/world champs victories but much more than that seems unlikely.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,533
    A pic form my mate who was roadside after doing the P-R sportive the day before*.

    *On a single speed, nutter.

    ad251e07c0fd541e0ba27ac1fd466752.jpg
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!

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