TdF 2017: Stage 9 Nantua - Chambéry 181.5KM *Spoilers*

rick_chasey

^^ no I meant you weren't being cynical to say they put the pic up as click bait. That's entirely why they put it up.

imatfaal

underlayunderlay wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So we know why Martin crashed again right?

Front brake didn't work.

Was interested in that, actually, then sort of forgot about it. Any explanation for why the brakes didn't work?

(Edit - obviously he'd just been in a crash, but is there any confirmation that's what damaged them?)

I thought he was on neutral service bike by then. I seem to remember he got going again after LRP's crash on different bike. I posted that I was worried - big crash, strange bike, horrible descent...

Lanterne_Rogue

imatfaal wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So we know why Martin crashed again right?

Front brake didn't work.

Was interested in that, actually, then sort of forgot about it. Any explanation for why the brakes didn't work?

(Edit - obviously he'd just been in a crash, but is there any confirmation that's what damaged them?)

I thought he was on neutral service bike by then. I seem to remember he got going again after LRP's crash on different bike. I posted that I was worried - big crash, strange bike, horrible descent...

In the Guardian William Fotheringham said that the "brakes didn't mesh with the replacement wheel" which just sounded as if there was a further tale behind it. Wondering if it's a rim diameter thing, but that doesn't seem likely to create that big a difference. Failing to close the brakes might make a difference though, if they forgot. Weird...

rick_chasey

Uran is even more macho.

He rides a 54 big ring 8)

above_the_cows

Rick Chasey wrote:

^^ no I meant you weren't being cynical to say they put the pic up as click bait. That's entirely why they put it up.

Ah ha. Got ya. This is what comes of watching Poldark at the same time.

above_the_cows

Poldark, which quite frankly is a load of old melodramatic cobblers.

rick_chasey

So Porte took Martin out AND Uran's derailleur.

rick_chasey

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

imatfaal

underlayunderlay wrote:

imatfaal wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So we know why Martin crashed again right?

Front brake didn't work.

Was interested in that, actually, then sort of forgot about it. Any explanation for why the brakes didn't work?

(Edit - obviously he'd just been in a crash, but is there any confirmation that's what damaged them?)

I thought he was on neutral service bike by then. I seem to remember he got going again after LRP's crash on different bike. I posted that I was worried - big crash, strange bike, horrible descent...

In the Guardian William Fotheringham said that the "brakes didn't mesh with the replacement wheel" which just sounded as if there was a further tale behind it. Wondering if it's a rim diameter thing, but that doesn't seem likely to create that big a difference. Failing to close the brakes might make a difference though, if they forgot. Weird...

Yes - just rechecked and it was just a neutral service/mavic wheel rather than bike.

ddraver

Be more Spanish....

https://youtu.be/pUQ7argFnG0

fleshtuxedo

Wonder if Martin's brakes didn't work properly with Mavic front wheel due to incompatible brake pads. QS bikes are on Roval carbon rims, maybe the pads for those aren't well matched with the Mavic he got. Not an issue 99% of the time, but a different story today...

Pross

imatfaal wrote:

- A very tough and dangerous stage we did today. But, our team did it on the high level and we could be happy with the final result. Today, we planned to attack, we had to do it far from the top of the final climb. Thus, I found a good moment on the Mont du Chat and attacked. Honestly, I did not see the moment when Chris Froome has got a mechanical problem. I was fully concentrated on my attacking moment. Later, I was told by radio that Froome had to stop because of a mechanical. So, I stopped as well to wait for him

, - explained Fabio Aru.

OK - So who believes him? At least Nibali is brutally honest enough to admit to attacking during an incident.

It may have been the camera angle but on the replay I saw Aru appeared to ride under Froome's arm as he raised it in order to attack!

durhamwasp

iainf72 wrote:

I don't see what's so hard to understand - When Froome had his mechanical, they weren't really racing hard. Aru appeared to attack in direct response to realising Froome had an issue. Bad form in anyone's book but if Aru had wanted to wear it he could've.

Now, if Froome had his issue 10 seconds after Aru had attacked, different story entirely.

Porte and Marting crashed when the racing was full on, under those circumstances, you don't wait.

Spot on.

Nibali taught Aru everything he knows...

Lanterne_Rogue

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

You, Chris Boardman and David Millar - the latter is quite amusingly annoyed by it. "There's six riders. The two Astana riders finished fifth and sixth. It's like, 'How stupid are you?'"

lettingthedaysgoby

FleshTuxedo wrote:

Wonder if Martin's brakes didn't work properly with Mavic front wheel due to incompatible brake pads. QS bikes are on Roval carbon rims, maybe the pads for those aren't well matched with the Mavic he got. Not an issue 99% of the time, but a different story today...

Clearly an argument for them all to be on discs

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

If they want to win the Tour they have to beat others than Froome. They just won a Dauphine due to the leader thinking he only had to beat Froome.

Pross

underlayunderlay wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

You, Chris Boardman and David Millar - the latter is quite amusingly annoyed by it. "There's six riders. The two Astana riders finished fifth and sixth. It's like, 'How stupid are you?'"

I'm convinced Fuglsang is riding for himself and if I was Aru's team mate I'd probably do the same.

DeVlaeminck

Above The Cows wrote:

Many things are factual but they don't get shown in the newspaper because decisions are made as to the tastefulness of showing them. News is factual but decisions are taken every day as to what to show or what not to show. Saying it's factual is an attempt to remove any human agency from the picture editor etc. A decision has been made to use this particular photo as the one that attracts people to the story. One can still report the facts without the need to show certain images. Newspapers make decisions all the time not to show 'factual' content out of decency and respect. It's exploiting pain. A sort of suffering porn.

For me it's not explotative as it does no real harm to anyone. I can't really see why you wouldn't use a photo like that - I hate those crash compilations Eurosport used to show as filler as they do trivialise potentially serious incidents but this seems to illustrate the story of the day entirely appropriately.

DeVlaeminck

Pross wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

You, Chris Boardman and David Millar - the latter is quite amusingly annoyed by it. "There's six riders. The two Astana riders finished fifth and sixth. It's like, 'How stupid are you?'"

I'm convinced Fuglsang is riding for himself and if I was Aru's team mate I'd probably do the same.

Probably calculated they may as well take time from the riders behind as Aru was unlikely to get away or win a sprint, don't forget they had to catch Bardet too.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

If they want to win the Tour they have to beat others than Froome. They just won a Dauphine due to the leader thinking he only had to beat Froome.

Like Froome would give up yellow to Bardet.

He's not called Fenton for nothing.

It's the Tour, not the warm up.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

If they want to win the Tour they have to beat others than Froome. They just won a Dauphine due to the leader thinking he only had to beat Froome.

Like Froome would give up yellow to Bardet.

He's not called Fenton for nothing.

It's the Tour, not the warm up.

He had 47 seconds lead over him. And he's pretty self-confident. Aru had to dig deep on the last climb. Froome will think he could give Bardet up to a minute lead at this point and still win.

rick_chasey

So you send Fuglsang up the road and have Aru sit on Froome's wheel.

Rinse & repeat.

And I don't believe Froome would play poker with a gap to Bardet...

DeVlaeminck

Rick Chasey wrote:

So you send Fuglsang up the road and have Aru sit on Froome's wheel.

Rinse & repeat.

And I don't believe Froome would play poker with a gap to Bardet...

Yes but unlikely Bardet would have been caught doing that so Aru loses time to Bardet and takes less on Quintana, Martin et al and for what?

tailwindhome

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alright.

I called it back in the stage live but I stand by it.

Astana tactics were crap. Why did they work with Froome?

Because he owns them mentally and physically.

rob39

r0bh wrote:

OnYourRight wrote:

Aru certainly saw Froome’s arm, but why should there not be a cost to using extremely puncture-prone tyres (i.e. very fast ones), derailleurs that can’t be trusted to last 200 km, and experimental gizmos of the sort often botched together by pro race mechanics? Or to being inept at changing gears, grabbing a musette, cornering at speed, or performing other necessary actions of cycling?

The expectation that everyone should wait every time something goes mildly wrong, usually because of the rider’s/team’s own fault, has become excessive. There’s too much waiting around for people who have real or imagined mechanical issues, toilet stops, etc. And too much debate over the non-issue of who saw what.

Treating it like a race would clarify a lot of things.

What us onlookers think the "unwritten rules" should or shouldn't be matters not a jot; the peloton decides at that given moment what is the right behavior. It was clear from the actions of everyone else in that group that they thought Aru had not done the right thing.

If Lewis Hamilton gets a puncture does everyone slow down wait until he re-joins and begin racing again, recent Tri athlon in France where a front runner (lead group) had an issue with brakes rubbing and slowed to sort it, did the remaining lead group slow down, did they hell they increased tempo and dropped a potential threat. Also remember last year at Crystal Palace 1500m potential medallist had a shoe issue, did the remaining athletes slow to wait until he got it sorted NO. Again we see this throughout the season riders puncture at crucial points in the race whether on the flat or on the climbs, the race doesn't slow they get on with it and if teams mates are around they help to get them back on. Whether Aru sore Froome's hand up for a mechanical or not racing is racing and were all getting to nice. The problem is if Aru continued and won time on Froome he would have been made out to be a villain, but maybe this is what is needed to stop these un written rules. IMO

tonyf34

Do these other events have previous form that is historically known, answer no. So zero point making the comparisons to other scenarios where it isn't applicable and never has. IF the teams/riders/UCi come out and say, look, if x person has a mechanical, tough shit, it's all on then fine.
At the moment it's about sportsmanship, and yes you could say that if your kit goes wrong that's part and parcel, if you crash out because of a mistake you made, no problem, but everyone needs to agree with this from all sides.
Personally i think that attacking when you wouldn't have when your opponent has an unfortunate incident you're aware of them having done so is cuntish. The likelihood is others will see you as a cunt and you'll get paid back with interest.

smithy21

No issue with that photo being used other than they should have, like the Times, used one of my man sprinting to victory in his only gear.

Love it.

kingstongraham

rob39 wrote:

If Lewis Hamilton gets a puncture does everyone slow down wait until he re-joins and begin racing again, recent Tri athlon in France where a front runner (lead group) had an issue with brakes rubbing and slowed to sort it, did the remaining lead group slow down, did they hell they increased tempo and dropped a potential threat. Also remember last year at Crystal Palace 1500m potential medallist had a shoe issue, did the remaining athletes slow to wait until he got it sorted NO. Again we see this throughout the season riders puncture at crucial points in the race whether on the flat or on the climbs, the race doesn't slow they get on with it and if teams mates are around they help to get them back on. Whether Aru sore Froome's hand up for a mechanical or not racing is racing and were all getting to nice. The problem is if Aru continued and won time on Froome he would have been made out to be a villain, but maybe this is what is needed to stop these un written rules. IMO

You didn't mention football in your comparison of sports.

FocusZing

smithy21 wrote:

No issue with that photo being used other than they should have, like the Times, used one of my man sprinting to victory in his only gear.

Love it.

Yes, great shot! As D Millar said "Worlds most expensive two speed".

Brilliant ride from Froome, he wears the pressure with aplomb.

smithy21

KingstonGraham wrote:

rob39 wrote:

If Lewis Hamilton gets a puncture does everyone slow down wait until he re-joins and begin racing again, recent Tri athlon in France where a front runner (lead group) had an issue with brakes rubbing and slowed to sort it, did the remaining lead group slow down, did they hell they increased tempo and dropped a potential threat. Also remember last year at Crystal Palace 1500m potential medallist had a shoe issue, did the remaining athletes slow to wait until he got it sorted NO. Again we see this throughout the season riders puncture at crucial points in the race whether on the flat or on the climbs, the race doesn't slow they get on with it and if teams mates are around they help to get them back on. Whether Aru sore Froome's hand up for a mechanical or not racing is racing and were all getting to nice. The problem is if Aru continued and won time on Froome he would have been made out to be a villain, but maybe this is what is needed to stop these un written rules. IMO

You didn't mention football in your comparison of sports.

Di Canio catching the ball when he could have scored as I think a keeper was down injured.

On that slightly tenuous football link I don't think insensitive photos are a new thing or particularly click related. I seem to remember Dave Buust's absolutely horrific leg break playing for Coventry v Man United on the back pages. That must have been mid 90's.