TdF 2017: Stage 9 Nantua - Chambéry 181.5KM *Spoilers*

thegibdog

Chris Boardman said pretty much the same - mechanical failures are part of the race.

I didn't notice anybody waiting for Martin. Obviously you get more leeway if you're in yellow, would've been interesting if Froome wasn't.

RichN95.

OnYourRight wrote:

Aru certainly saw Froome’s arm, but why should there not be a cost to using extremely puncture-prone tyres (i.e. very fast ones), derailleurs that can’t be trusted to last 200 km, and experimental gizmos of the sort often botched together by pro race mechanics? Or to being inept at changing gears, grabbing a musette, cornering at speed, or performing other necessary actions of cycling?

The expectation that everyone should wait every time something goes mildly wrong, usually because of the rider’s/team’s own fault, has become excessive. There’s too much waiting around for people who have real or imagined mechanical issues, toilet stops, etc. And too much debate over the non-issue of who saw what.

Treating it like a race would clarify a lot of things.

Aru played it wrong. He saw the arm and attacked. What he should have done is put Fuglsang on the front and kept the tempo high. Not waiting on the final climb is justifiable (preferable IMO), attacking is a hard sell.

Lanterne_Rogue

argyllflyer wrote:

imatfaal wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

imatfaal wrote:

Stage nine abandonments
...

You've missed Mori - dislocated shoulder / collapsed lung.

Well spotted. I am glad I missed seeing the Gesink / Mori crash it seems to have been awful - wasn't a third rider involved?

What you rarely hear in these crashes is a rider screaming out in pain which is what Mori was doing. Very uncomfortable viewing.

Yeah - first time I can recall doing so. It wasn't the usual banged up collarbone, that much was obvious.

iainf72

I don't see what's so hard to understand - When Froome had his mechanical, they weren't really racing hard. Aru appeared to attack in direct response to realising Froome had an issue. Bad form in anyone's book but if Aru had wanted to wear it he could've.

Now, if Froome had his issue 10 seconds after Aru had attacked, different story entirely.

Porte and Marting crashed when the racing was full on, under those circumstances, you don't wait.

r0bh

OnYourRight wrote:

Aru certainly saw Froome’s arm, but why should there not be a cost to using extremely puncture-prone tyres (i.e. very fast ones), derailleurs that can’t be trusted to last 200 km, and experimental gizmos of the sort often botched together by pro race mechanics? Or to being inept at changing gears, grabbing a musette, cornering at speed, or performing other necessary actions of cycling?

The expectation that everyone should wait every time something goes mildly wrong, usually because of the rider’s/team’s own fault, has become excessive. There’s too much waiting around for people who have real or imagined mechanical issues, toilet stops, etc. And too much debate over the non-issue of who saw what.

Treating it like a race would clarify a lot of things.

What us onlookers think the "unwritten rules" should or shouldn't be matters not a jot; the peloton decides at that given moment what is the right behavior. It was clear from the actions of everyone else in that group that they thought Aru had not done the right thing.

above_the_cows

Dabber wrote:

I never knew Aru did standup... he's definitely having a larf.

emadden

But how did Aru know Froome had a mechanical? Froome put his hand/arm up and that can mean anything. Now that I know that Froome's gears stopped working and he was stuck in his 29, Aru wouldnt have known what issue existed unless Froome called out: No visible flat tyres, no broken bits and no noise. And Froome was pedaling as normal.


Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m--URfkvdMI

kleinstroker

Wow. Just caught up with the highlights, what a massive stage. Seriously gutted for G & Ritchie, Aru what a twat! Obviously being schooled by Nibali who also had problems with his eyesight IIRC
And Rigoberto Uran, winning with a broken derailleur!

Absolute legend.

above_the_cows

Jeetje the Guardian have decided to use a quite inappropriate photo to illustrate today's stage report. I will not repost it as that sort of feeds into the goulish spectacle of the whole thing.

blazing_saddles

emadden wrote:

But how did Aru know Froome had a mechanical? Froome put his hand/arm up and that can mean anything. Now that I know that Froome's gears stopped working and he was stuck in his 29, Aru wouldnt have known what issue existed unless Froome called out: No visible flat tyres, no broken bits and no noise. And Froome was pedaling as normal.


Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m--URfkvdMI

The clue is in the number of Sky domestiques that were still in the group.

EnacheV

i think Froome is stronger uphill than Bardet and Aru, if today would have been a MTF would have put 1 min + in them

and still i don't think Froome reached peak form yet

barring incidents i really don't see anyone else winning this TDF

for the other 2 podium spots Bardet and Aru are solid options as well

emadden

Blazing Saddles wrote:

emadden wrote:

But how did Aru know Froome had a mechanical? Froome put his hand/arm up and that can mean anything. Now that I know that Froome's gears stopped working and he was stuck in his 29, Aru wouldnt have known what issue existed unless Froome called out: No visible flat tyres, no broken bits and no noise. And Froome was pedaling as normal.


Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m--URfkvdMI

The clue is in the number of Sky domestiques that were still in the group.

How is that a clue? A clue might have been if one of them stopped or he was shouting/talking to one of them. I'm not excusing Aru, I'm just trying to figure out what is the mechanical that Aru should have seen because a stuck Di2 system isnt obvious to anyone other than the rider suffering from it.

bobmcstuff

Watching it back Froome really made a mess of that sprint. Basically tried to lead himself out.

Nice to see Cannondale with some luck for a change!

above_the_cows

emadden wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

emadden wrote:

But how did Aru know Froome had a mechanical? Froome put his hand/arm up and that can mean anything. Now that I know that Froome's gears stopped working and he was stuck in his 29, Aru wouldnt have known what issue existed unless Froome called out: No visible flat tyres, no broken bits and no noise. And Froome was pedaling as normal.


Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m--URfkvdMI

The clue is in the number of Sky domestiques that were still in the group.

How is that a clue?

Because if he needed anything else he would have sent a domestique back to the car.

imatfaal

LRP was fractured pelvis and collar bone; pelvis can be especially difficult if it is in a bad place - hope he is able to make a swift recovery.

Majka didn't break any bones but team still unsure if he will restart.

The photo used by The Guardian should only have ever been used to illustrate an article on press insensitivity and intrusiveness.

tailwindhome

adr82 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

adr82 wrote:

imatfaal wrote:

- A very tough and dangerous stage we did today. But, our team did it on the high level and we could be happy with the final result. Today, we planned to attack, we had to do it far from the top of the final climb. Thus, I found a good moment on the Mont du Chat and attacked. Honestly, I did not see the moment when Chris Froome has got a mechanical problem. I was fully concentrated on my attacking moment. Later, I was told by radio that Froome had to stop because of a mechanical. So, I stopped as well to wait for him

, - explained Fabio Aru.

OK - So who believes him? At least Nibali is brutally honest enough to admit to attacking during an incident.

He literally rode under Froome's arm, he should stop trying to talk his way out of it.

Froome's arm goes up after the attack
No?

Try watching the whole clip...

No, fair do's. I didn't stick with the clip to the end/ the replay. It's clear on the full clip that Aru sees the arm go up.

DeVlaeminck

imatfaal wrote:

LRP was fractured pelvis and collar bone; pelvis can be especially difficult if it is in a bad place - hope he is able to make a swift recovery.

Majka didn't break any bones but team still unsure if he will restart.

The photo used by The Guardian should only have ever been used to illustrate an article on press insensitivity and intrusiveness.

I don't see why, unfortunately danger and the consequences are part of cycling. It can be a brutal sport and nothing is achieved by pretending otherwise.

dav1d1

Uran rode 53x11

Lanterne_Rogue

I'm torn on the photo in the Guardian. I think it tells the story very powerfully but I can see why it makes people uncomfortable to see it. I suspect I'd need a long evening in the pub discussing it with people before I really knew what I felt.

above_the_cows

underlayunderlay wrote:

I'm torn on the photo in the Guardian. I think it tells the story very powerfully but I can see why it makes people uncomfortable to see it. I suspect I'd need a long evening in the pub discussing it with people before I really knew what I felt.

Yes, I think that at times these images are powerful and necessary, however, I'm so cynical I feel like these get chosen to garner clicks and clicks mean revenue.

blazing_saddles

Above The Cows wrote:

emadden wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

emadden wrote:

But how did Aru know Froome had a mechanical? Froome put his hand/arm up and that can mean anything. Now that I know that Froome's gears stopped working and he was stuck in his 29, Aru wouldnt have known what issue existed unless Froome called out: No visible flat tyres, no broken bits and no noise. And Froome was pedaling as normal.


Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m--URfkvdMI

The clue is in the number of Sky domestiques that were still in the group.

How is that a clue?

Because if he needed anything else he would have sent a domestique back to the car.

Exactamundo.

mfin

underlayunderlay wrote:

I'm torn on the photo in the Guardian. I think it tells the story very powerfully but I can see why it makes people uncomfortable to see it. I suspect I'd need a long evening in the pub discussing it with people before I really knew what I felt.

On this you mean? https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/09/geraint-thomas-out-tour-de-france-crash-stage-nine-cycling

rick_chasey

Above The Cows wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

I'm torn on the photo in the Guardian. I think it tells the story very powerfully but I can see why it makes people uncomfortable to see it. I suspect I'd need a long evening in the pub discussing it with people before I really knew what I felt.

Yes, I think that at times these images are powerful and necessary, however, I'm so cynical I feel like these get chosen to garner clicks and clicks mean revenue.

That's not cynical, just factual.

dav1d1

https://twitter.com/veloncc/status/884143501310656512

Wheel change on martins bike from the go pro on the mavic guy

Also velon cc go pro footage from stage 9 from the bikes very cool

rick_chasey

So we know why Martin crashed again right?

Front brake didn't work.

mfin

I think photos showing what happened or after it happened are fine, it's not like there were any gruesome photos to see from today.

rick_chasey

Watching the highlights now.

Porte crash didn't look as bad as I had anticipated - the aftermath made it look worse.

Was a stupid mistake mind. He'll cringe when he sees that again.

Lanterne_Rogue

Rick Chasey wrote:

So we know why Martin crashed again right?

Front brake didn't work.

Was interested in that, actually, then sort of forgot about it. Any explanation for why the brakes didn't work?

(Edit - obviously he'd just been in a crash, but is there any confirmation that's what damaged them?)

above_the_cows

Rick Chasey wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

I'm torn on the photo in the Guardian. I think it tells the story very powerfully but I can see why it makes people uncomfortable to see it. I suspect I'd need a long evening in the pub discussing it with people before I really knew what I felt.

Yes, I think that at times these images are powerful and necessary, however, I'm so cynical I feel like these get chosen to garner clicks and clicks mean revenue.

That's not cynical, just factual.

Many things are factual but they don't get shown in the newspaper because decisions are made as to the tastefulness of showing them. News is factual but decisions are taken every day as to what to show or what not to show. Saying it's factual is an attempt to remove any human agency from the picture editor etc. A decision has been made to use this particular photo as the one that attracts people to the story. One can still report the facts without the need to show certain images. Newspapers make decisions all the time not to show 'factual' content out of decency and respect. It's exploiting pain. A sort of suffering porn.

rick_chasey

Loved the bunny hop Uran made on the decent.

Crashes aside this is a wonderful decent! Phwoar!