TDF 2017: Stage 4- Mondorf-les-Bains - Vittel 207.5kms *Spoilers*

above_the_cows

OCDuPalais wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Yes, let's also concentrate on how good Demare's sprint was. It was a perfect sprint.

Apart from Demare cutting Bouhanni off...

Exactly! Not a Bouhanni fan and chose Demare today... but he proper cut NB up

Ach fair enough, I've just been distracted by all the arrows on the Eurosport coverage pointing at Sagz and Cav.

salsiccia1

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

I think this will eventually come down to "that's bike racing".

Yep. And I think that's probably the right call. As much as I love Cav, to me it's what F1 fans call 'a racing incident'.

ocdupalais

Above The Cows wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Yes, let's also concentrate on how good Demare's sprint was. It was a perfect sprint.

Apart from Demare cutting Bouhanni off...

Exactly! Not a Bouhanni fan and chose Demare today... but he proper cut NB up

Ach fair enough, I've just been distracted by all the arrows on the Eurosport coverage pointing at Sagz and Cav.

That, and failing stupid students, eh?

imatfaal

Did I hear that right - Greipel being reported as saying Sagan is no friend of his anymore?

I am a great fan of Sagan (much more than I am of chippy Cav) but frankly it looks as if Sagan closed the gap and then bumped Cav into the barriers - and for such a consummate bike handler I think it is deliberate. The elbow was later - but the nudge was what put Cav into barrier

meursault

Looks like Sagan took Cav out. Sagan says he didn't see him coming, then says he was coming up fast on his right (Eurosport interview). There was no need for Sagan to continue angling towards the right and block Cav off.

Disclaimer: Not a fan boy of either rider.

Pross

Considering there were only about 10 riders left on a wide, straight road that whole sprint was bonkers. Bouhanni was all over the shop as always, don't know what happened to Greipel and then Bouhanni himself cut up by Demare. Kristoff of two years ago would have walked it as he was the only one not impeded.

Interview with Cav, he's certainly grown up and calmed down a lot. On the whole shrugging it off but not happy about the elbow. The more I see it the more it looked like Sagan using it to close the door.

above_the_cows

OCDuPalais wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Yes, let's also concentrate on how good Demare's sprint was. It was a perfect sprint.

Apart from Demare cutting Bouhanni off...

Exactly! Not a Bouhanni fan and chose Demare today... but he proper cut NB up

Ach fair enough, I've just been distracted by all the arrows on the Eurosport coverage pointing at Sagz and Cav.

That, and failing stupid students, eh?

Don't get me started. Anwyay tot straks lovelies, I have a terrasje and a biertje awaiting me.

hanshotfirst

Dorset Boy wrote:

I'd throw him off the tour for that - he knew what he was doing and has probably just put another rider out of the race as a result of his recklessness. Video don't look good for the WC

As a guy who loves Peter Sagan, I have to totally agree with this. If it's a broken collar bone then Cav is lucky, that could have been so much worse.

Love the boy and want to see him get 6 green in a row but come on! Chuffing threw him into the barrier. It was like something out of WWF.

rick_chasey

Called a journo out for saying "everyone thinks Sagan plays fair" - i show him an example of he total opposite and the response is "shrugs, I'm still right".

poweredbyidris

Looked to me like Sagan wanted Demare's wheel as he went past, and tried to muscle Cav off it when Mark came through behind.

kleinstroker

TheBigBean

I think the mistake Sagan made was doing it next to the barrier. In the middle of the road it would be fair game, or a fairer game.

Lanterne_Rogue

That was worse than the Hushovd crash that cost Cavendish the green jersey, but you'd have to also censure Demare for not sprinting straight, so nothing likely to happen. I tend towards chalking it up as a racing incident, but lots of dodgy sprinting going on there.

bobmcstuff

So I've not watched any of this, but reading the above I'm surprised Sagan is still in the race? Was it just not that bad?

Also is Cav out or not? Hard to tell...

slim_boy_fat

Roger Hammond with very strong, emotional words.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Watching http://u.nya.is/eyxtip.mp4 in slo-mo, at ~1min16, rider ahead of Cav moved to their left by about half a bar. Then Sagan sweeps to his right as Cav starts moving to his left, looks like Sagan's first contact with Cav was upper arm and shoulder.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

I think the mistake Sagan made was doing it next to the barrier. In the middle of the road it would be fair game, or a fairer game.

Quite a big difference. One is a monster accident, the other isn't.

He's got a bit of rep for being a bit argy bargy - see here: http://m.sporza.be/#!/snippet/58dc1284c9976f06001e8559

But ja, sprinting - this stuff happens.

graeme_s-2

NitrousOxide wrote:

Watching http://u.nya.is/eyxtip.mp4 in slo-mo, at ~1min16, rider ahead of Cav moved to their left by about half a bar. Then Sagan sweeps to his right as Cav starts moving to his left, looks like Sagan's first contact with Cav was upper arm and shoulder.

I think the elbow's a bit of a red herring (it looks really bad, but I think it was more of a reaction to the contact than the start of it, or the reason Cav fell). What's worse is Sagan pulls half way across the width of the road with Cav on his right hand side the whole way, and by the time they make contact Cav actually looks to be ahead of Sagan.

Would have quite liked Cav's chances there if he'd made it through that gap.

smithy21

Racing incident. Nothing to see.

Move along.

rick_chasey

Haha McEwen calling it a DQ..

hypster

Cav interviewed at end of ITV4 coverage says Sagan elbowed him so is obviously blaming Sagan.

dinyull

TheBigBean wrote:

I think the mistake Sagan made was doing it next to the barrier. In the middle of the road it would be fair game, or a fairer game.

Yeah, in the middle of the road you wouldn't give that a second look. In the barrier though and it really isn't a good look for Sagan.

Blatant use of the elbow, in fact the elbow was after he had hit the barriers, so Sagan was putting Cav in the barriers one way or another.

pirnie

I do wonder if it wasn't for the Cav Sagan incident, whether everyone would be talking about Demare cutting off Bouhanni, which was pretty bad. It just pales into insignificance next to Cav's crash as Bouhanni stayed upright

type:epyt

kleinstroker wrote:

Watching this little video loop and from first sight on an HD tv, it looks like Cav rides into Sagan's shoulder, Sagan then puts his elbow out (hopefully for protection) but there was no gap there anyway ...

Edwards and 'The Coach' tabloid journalism'ing it as much as possible ...

mfin

smithy21 wrote:

Racing incident. Nothing to see.

Move along.

I agree. I watched it about 20 times on slo-mo, I'm not sure that anyone could conclude much at all without a dollop of confirmation bias.

Anyway, tomorrow has the potential of being an interesting stage.

imatfaal

smithy21 wrote:

Racing incident. Nothing to see.

Move along.

Nah - Bouhanni would have been out of the race if he behaved like that. Sagan is racing and publicity gold so he will survive; but sweeping rivals into the barriers is not a racing incident.

graeme_s-2

type:epyt wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Watching this little video loop and from first sight on an HD tv, it looks like Cav rides into Sagan's shoulder, Sagan then puts his elbow out (hopefully for protection) but there was no gap there anyway ...

Edwards and 'The Coach' tabloid journalism'ing it as much as possible ...

No gap? Go back a few seconds, when Cav moves out to Sagan's right they're on the other side of the road. Sagan moves across over half the width of the road with Cav on his right hand side, and when they make contact they're neck and neck, with Cav possibly a fraction ahead. When Cav made his move you could have driven a bus through the gap between Sagan and that barrier.

pirnie

type:epyt wrote:

Watching this little video loop and from first sight on an HD tv, it looks like Cav rides into Sagan's shoulder, Sagan then puts his elbow out (hopefully for protection) but there was no gap there anyway ...

Edwards and 'The Coach' tabloid journalism'ing it as much as possible ...

What you don't see on that short loop is that Cav is already on Demare's wheel and Sagan comes in from the side. Starting at that point doesn't give the full picture IMO

salsiccia1

bobmcstuff wrote:

So I've not watched any of this, but reading the above I'm surprised Sagan is still in the race? Was it just not that bad?

Opinions differ, you'll have to see it yourself.

bobmcstuff wrote:

Also is Cav out or not? Hard to tell...

Off to hospital. He reckons it might be the shoulder he did in Harrogate. I can't see him starting tomorrow.

Lanterne_Rogue

The official Tour account has tweeted the overhead, and I take it back - Sagan doesn't go as straight as the head-on shot makes it look, and then fires Cavendish sideways with an elbow. I wouldn't argue with a DQ.