TDF 2017: Stage 4- Mondorf-les-Bains - Vittel 207.5kms *Spoilers*

smithy21

^ can anyone appeal to for a harsher punishment?

Richmond Racer 2

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Thesis going well, I take it??

No I had to give it a fail, and like the decision of the Race Jury the decision is final.

dav1d1

https://twitter.com/markcavendish/statu ... 5880433664

Passionate, honest, mature response, Shame the world we live in he has been reciving hate/threats

Also this from Sagan
https://twitter.com/petosagan/status/882638412544704512

lettingthedaysgoby

Dav1d1 wrote:

https://twitter.com/markcavendish/status/882644695880433664

Passionate, honest, mature response, Shame the world we live in he has been reciving hate/threats

Also this from Sagan
https://twitter.com/petosagan/status/882638412544704512

That's a classy response from Cav there. Respect.

FocusZing

Jeez, tough guys.

Pross

Dav1d1 wrote:

https://twitter.com/markcavendish/status/882644695880433664

Passionate, honest, mature response, Shame the world we live in he has been reciving hate/threats

Also this from Sagan
https://twitter.com/petosagan/status/882638412544704512

He really has changed recently, I wonder if his illness has made him reflect a bit.

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Dav1d1 wrote:

https://twitter.com/markcavendish/status/882644695880433664

Passionate, honest, mature response, Shame the world we live in he has been reciving hate/threats

Also this from Sagan
https://twitter.com/petosagan/status/882638412544704512

He really has changed recently, I wonder if his illness has made him reflect a bit.

Or very strong painkillers.

m.r.m.

dish_dash wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The five stages of grief, as illustrated by cycling journalists

chapeau

Klobúk!

As stated before I think Sagan facing disciplinary action is entirely justified. Expulsion from the race is too hard though. I do think the elbow was a reaction to Cav's left hood getting caught in his arm when Cav went down (which was clearly Sagan's fault). If you ignore the elbow and say Sagan causing Cav to crash is already grounds for expulsion from the race, I'm basically fine with that. I'd see it more as a racing incident with Sagan to blame (so points deduction etc.).

That being said, didn't Cav basically go for the gap that Sagan went for at the last world championships? That time he didn't go that direction and basically lost the race while Sagan went for the gap that closed immediately after and won the race. I think it's feasible that that fresh experience (among his immense previous race experience of course), may have made him commit to that gap this time around.

RichN95.

M.R.M. wrote:

As stated before I think Sagan facing disciplinary action is entirely justified.

I don't. But he's still a multi-millionaire with a great wife and about a hundred race wins. And everyone will say he would have won the green jersey (except me - I think he wouldn't). So not worth worrying about unless you are one of the adoring Peterphiles of the cycling media.
It might be good for him in the long run - it seems he's been increasingly throwing is weight around in the peloton.

m.r.m.

I agree, but with him I don't think it's malicious. He seems a kind and good soul who is (still) figuring out how to win and what it means to be the face of a sport.

imatfaal

Bora-Hansgrohe have appealed the race juries decision to the CAS in Switzerland alleging that UCI rules were not followed in the exclusion of Sagan.

https://www.bora-hansgrohe.com/en/news/ ... n/10983587

graeme_s-2

What are they going to do if they win the appeal? Send the Tour back to Vittel and start over from Stage 5?

dinyull

The lantern rouge would be his for the taking if he's allowed back in, 3 days behind.

imatfaal

Graeme_S wrote:

What are they going to do if they win the appeal? Send the Tour back to Vittel and start over from Stage 5?

Heaven only knows. I could cope with the Stage to Beautiful Girls being re-run that was exciting - but please please no repeat of today :-)

I could only guess they would want him included on a day-by-day basis (ie can win stages) whilst being placed last in all other competitions from tomorrow onwards. Not sure how quickly CAS can rule and whether UCI would not just re-appeal

graeme_s-2

They could let him start stage 5 by himself, and then when he finishes throw him out for missing the time cut by 3 days

graeme_s-2

It does seem poor that they would exclude a rider without allowing them or their representative to put their side of the story across. Especially if the regulations explicitly state that they're supposed to do this.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

1.5l of water per hour? Holy cow!

Richmond Racer 2

imatfaal wrote:

Bora-Hansgrohe have appealed the race juries decision to the CAS in Switzerland alleging that UCI rules were not followed in the exclusion of Sagan.

https://www.bora-hansgrohe.com/en/news/ ... n/10983587

Yeah. Thats a waste of energy

Richmond Racer 2

imatfaal wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

What are they going to do if they win the appeal? Send the Tour back to Vittel and start over from Stage 5?

Heaven only knows. I could cope with the Stage to Beautiful Girls being re-run that was exciting - but please please no repeat of today :-)

I could only guess they would want him included on a day-by-day basis (ie can win stages) whilst being placed last in all other competitions from tomorrow onwards. Not sure how quickly CAS can rule and whether UCI would not just re-appeal

CAS isnt an organisation sitting around just in case random sports teams decide to go on wild goose chases

Never mind the fact that the race rules explicitely state that a rider has to complete each stage (within the time cut) to be allowed to start the next day's stage

This is headline-grabbing desperation by the Cooking Revolution and Classy Bathroom sponsored team

larkim

Even so, if they could win in principle I think it would be an important decision. If they truly feel they have been badly done by, then CAS is their only formal option. Relying on the court of public opinion doesn't count for much.

Richmond Racer 2

Decision perhaps, but after the race has finished

larkim

CAS does have an urgent appeals route.

From their FAQs:-

"How long does CAS arbitration last ?

The ordinary procedure lasts between 6 and 12 months.
For the appeals procedure, an award must be pronounced within three months after the transfer of the file to the Panel.
In urgent cases and upon request, the CAS may, within a very short time, order interim measures or suspend the execution of a decision appealed against.­"

Richmond Racer 2

yeah, best of luck with that

Seriously, what next? Ooh, CAS, my rider got fined CHF200 by the nasty race jury for peeing mid-race when he was just adjusting his bibs,

Deal with it, Bora. Focus on Majke trying to nab a stage

graeme_s-2

I kind of feel that for this to work they'd have had to get some sort of injunction or preliminary ruling (like a suspension of his exclusion) in place between the finish of stage 4 and the start of stage 5. He then could have raced under protest until CAS ruled on it. Not unlike riders have ridden entire GTs in the past while protesting doping bans only to be retrospectively excluded later.

I can't imagine there's any precedent (certainly not in the modern era) for a rider being allowed to re-enter a stage race having missed some stages.

moonshine

Imagine the hoo-ha if he were reinstated by CAS just in time for the final stage, won it on the Champs Elyesses (cos he was fresh & hadn't ridden 3000km over the Alps & Pyrenees ) and this affected the outcome of the green Jersey, or he takes out the yellow jersey!
Beware the law of unintended consequences!
He is never going to get reinstated into the 2017 tour!

type:epyt

It's not about getting Sagan back in the race, it's about proving the TdF wrong and then they can go after the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow jersey ...

RichN95.

I'll ride as many stages in the last two weeks as Peter Sagan will.

moonshine

And opens the door for Cav to sue PS for losses as a result of the injury sustained and subsequent forced retiral...?
As i said, beware the unintended consequences..,

larkim

I agree, tbh. I think they could urgently hear an appeal, but conclude that due to the nature of the event with rider fatigue being an extremely important factor that it was entirely reasonable for there to be no route of appeal which results in a reinstatement. Financial settlement follows, Sagan / BH get to claim the moral highground and UCI forced to rewrite / reconsider their rules for mid-race DQs.

If, as BH state in their press release, UCI commissaires didn't follow the correct process in doling out the punishment, there has to be some form of redress for a rider, irrespective of the actual circumstances and the practicality of reinstatement.

burnthesheep

Why can't they be like other sports and the punishment or DQ begins after the appeal?

In other words, he should have been allowed to continue until a formal appeal process is over. If that means he goes on to win just to have it stripped away, that's his prerogative if he wants to take that risk.

If it was a fistfight or some crazy mess, sure, instant DQ. But this should have played out over a few days and let the process go about. Then pull him if the decision stayed final.

Now, if it is deemed they were wrong or two quick to judge........it's too late. Not only is the guy's tour ruined who crashed, so is the other guy's tour.

This isn't Byzantine law here.