TDF 2017: Stage 4- Mondorf-les-Bains - Vittel 207.5kms *Spoilers*

dish_dash

RichN95 wrote:

The five stages of grief, as illustrated by cycling journalists

chapeau

Lanterne_Rogue

Blazing Saddles wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Reinstating Sagan would be terrible for the sport - implies marketing and money more important than racing. Part of the problem with Armstrong is the way the sport colluded to allow him to carry on because he was good for viewing figures.

Booting him out yet not punishing Demare for riding across Bouhanni's line also sent out a message alone those lines, according to Vive le Velo.
Something to do with clandestine French shenanigans.........

Edit:- According to Hatch just now, DD appealed the judges decision and got the sanction upgraded.
So, appeal/s allowed even though it's against the rules?

I have some sympathy with the view that Demare should have been pinged, but he's a French star, not heralded as the global superstar Sagan is. Plus he hasn't already been DQ'd, so no decision to meddle with afterwards.

Any chance Hatch is poo-stirring or just guessing? Seems unlikely DD could appeal if Sagan can't.

PS - how bad is F1 if cycling fans are able to joke about it being run badly?

mididoctors

sagan rode like a dick and he and everyone knows it.

he takes the dq and we all move on. thankfully cav 's injuries were not career ending

the end

joey54321

Cav clearly as much at fault as Sagan was. It was a racing incident with no intention or malice behind it.

If anyone should have been sent home it's Demare but, you know, French rider in a French race with a French race jury and an opportunity to send home the biggest threat that French rider has to the Green Jersey.

smithy21

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

No she isn't.

This will still happen. You are asking athletes to make spilt second decisions in the heat of battle. They will get some wrong.

Not just in cycling- disciplining people in rugby doesn't stamp out players smacking each other, eye gouging, late hits.

Well Kittel and Matthews agree with me so I'll go with them all the same thanks.

Jesus wept :roll:

hamish_mctavish

larkim wrote:

That's my solution to this too - though I'd prefer a blue line rather than a white one...

Sort of a "neutral zone" where you have to be off the power (so you can't just abuse it to go around) but to give you at least a fighting chance to avoid the barriers if someone moves across the line.

Wouldn't that just end up with sprinters forcing other riders into the neutral zone where they would have to stop pedalling? As there wouldn't be a crash, it would be more likely to be dismissed as a "racing incident".

larkim

It'd need policing to prevent forcing others into the neutral zone, agreed. It depends whether you think there needs to be a crash for their to be a sanction.

Lanterne_Rogue

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

No she isn't.

This will still happen. You are asking athletes to make spilt second decisions in the heat of battle. They will get some wrong.

Not just in cycling- disciplining people in rugby doesn't stamp out players smacking each other, eye gouging, late hits.

Well Kittel and Matthews agree with me so I'll go with them all the same thanks.

Jesus wept :roll:

Big fan, is he?

Anyway, Jesus is hardly likely to come out against Sagan in the media now, is he? Poor chap's already been crucified once...

dinyull

Would probably encourage sprints down the centre of the road to avoid being pushed out.

burnthesheep

I've never raced in anything, so my opinion is probably crap.........but it's fun to have an opinion.

IMHO, if there wasn't blood on the guy's face from an elbow then it wasn't an "assault" like people are throwing around.

How about don't be a douche and take the dangerous line and then make everyone else ensure your safety by letting you do the douche move.

What? Bike doesn't have brakes or handlebars to steer? You chose to get right up on the barrier, deal with the consequences.

above_the_cows

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

No she isn't.

This will still happen. You are asking athletes to make spilt second decisions in the heat of battle. They will get some wrong.

Not just in cycling- disciplining people in rugby doesn't stamp out players smacking each other, eye gouging, late hits.

Well Kittel and Matthews agree with me so I'll go with them all the same thanks.

Jesus wept :roll:

I don't know, I think I'll go with professional sprinters over some person on the internet or someone who lived 2,000+ years ago and who is thought to the the son of god without any evidence. But feel free to roll your eyes just be careful the wind doesn't change.

dish_dash

joey54321 wrote:

Cav clearly as much at fault as Sagan was. It was a racing incident with no intention or malice behind it.

If anyone should have been sent home it's Demare but, you know, French rider in a French race with a French race jury and an opportunity to send home the biggest threat that French rider has to the Green Jersey.

Jury isn't French. The head of the jury is Belgian.

above_the_cows

dish_dash wrote:

joey54321 wrote:

Cav clearly as much at fault as Sagan was. It was a racing incident with no intention or malice behind it.

If anyone should have been sent home it's Demare but, you know, French rider in a French race with a French race jury and an opportunity to send home the biggest threat that French rider has to the Green Jersey.

Jury isn't French. The head of the jury is Belgian.

BUT. THE. OUTRAGE.

smithy21

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

No she isn't.

This will still happen. You are asking athletes to make spilt second decisions in the heat of battle. They will get some wrong.

Not just in cycling- disciplining people in rugby doesn't stamp out players smacking each other, eye gouging, late hits.

Well Kittel and Matthews agree with me so I'll go with them all the same thanks.

Jesus wept :roll:

I don't know, I think I'll go with professional sprinters over some person on the internet or someone who lived 2,000+ years ago and who is thought to the the son of god without any evidence. But feel free to roll your eyes just be careful the wind doesn't change.

So do I get Demare and Greipel on my team?

This thread is following in the footsteps of all time classics such as Richie Porte's wheel change and cobbled stages in grand tours debates.

No_Ta_Doctor

I'm laughing at the idea that Cav was at fault in any way. Some people just love to blame him for anything.

above_the_cows

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

No she isn't.

This will still happen. You are asking athletes to make spilt second decisions in the heat of battle. They will get some wrong.

Not just in cycling- disciplining people in rugby doesn't stamp out players smacking each other, eye gouging, late hits.

Well Kittel and Matthews agree with me so I'll go with them all the same thanks.

Jesus wept :roll:

I don't know, I think I'll go with professional sprinters over some person on the internet or someone who lived 2,000+ years ago and who is thought to the the son of god without any evidence. But feel free to roll your eyes just be careful the wind doesn't change.

So do I get Demare and Greipel on my team?

This thread is following in the footsteps of all time classics such as Richie Porte's wheel change and cobbled stages in grand tours debates.

You can have whoever you want. You're the one that started arguing with me/got your knick-knacks all in a bunch because someone said I was right, just don't be surprised if I defend myself.

dinyull

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

No she isn't.

This will still happen. You are asking athletes to make spilt second decisions in the heat of battle. They will get some wrong.

Not just in cycling- disciplining people in rugby doesn't stamp out players smacking each other, eye gouging, late hits.

Well Kittel and Matthews agree with me so I'll go with them all the same thanks.

Jesus wept :roll:

I don't know, I think I'll go with professional sprinters over some person on the internet or someone who lived 2,000+ years ago and who is thought to the the son of god without any evidence. But feel free to roll your eyes just be careful the wind doesn't change.

So do I get Demare and Greipel on my team?

Hasn't Greipel since changed his mind?

above_the_cows

No tA Doctor wrote:

I'm laughing at the idea that Cav was at fault in any way. Some people just love to blame him for anything.

Well he did shoot Archduke Franz Ferdinand after all.

Pross

joey54321 wrote:

Cav clearly as much at fault as Sagan was. It was a racing incident with no intention or malice behind it.

If anyone should have been sent home it's Demare but, you know, French rider in a French race with a French race jury and an opportunity to send home the biggest threat that French rider has to the Green Jersey.

Yep, the way he rode in a straight line at high speed through a gap that was (on the overhead) big enough for the proverbial bus at the time he started and then failed to bunny hop the barrier was completely reckless and at least on a par with veering several metres off line and then throwing out an elbow.

The revisionism that goes on after incidents like this is incredible with people taking individual image captures etc. to prove their point. The only way to see this incident clearly is by watching at least the final 500m on the overhead shot.

No_Ta_Doctor

Above The Cows wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

AtC on the money about punishment.

We've seen Sagan bullying his way around the peloton for a while... was bound to come a cropper at some point. He needed a bit of disciplining. The sport is bigger than the man. Journos sobbing about it have gone well down in my opinion - notably some of the american journos.

Setting up a gofundme just to fund Kleenex for them to cry into

That's not the only thing they'll be doing with their Kleenex.

Sorry ATC, but that one's been done already. By Mr CarpetbottomCarpetbottom. Of course.

underlayunderlay wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

AtC on the money about punishment.

We've seen Sagan bullying his way around the peloton for a while... was bound to come a cropper at some point. He needed a bit of disciplining. The sport is bigger than the man. Journos sobbing about it have gone well down in my opinion - notably some of the american journos.

Setting up a gofundme just to fund Kleenex for them to cry into

No need. The way some of them speak about him, I suspect the Kleenex was already close to hand.

smithy21

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

No she isn't.

This will still happen. You are asking athletes to make spilt second decisions in the heat of battle. They will get some wrong.

Not just in cycling- disciplining people in rugby doesn't stamp out players smacking each other, eye gouging, late hits.

Well Kittel and Matthews agree with me so I'll go with them all the same thanks.

Jesus wept :roll:

I don't know, I think I'll go with professional sprinters over some person on the internet or someone who lived 2,000+ years ago and who is thought to the the son of god without any evidence. But feel free to roll your eyes just be careful the wind doesn't change.

So do I get Demare and Greipel on my team?

This thread is following in the footsteps of all time classics such as Richie Porte's wheel change and cobbled stages in grand tours debates.

You can have whoever you want. You're the one that started arguing with me/got your knick-knacks all in a bunch because someone said I was right, just don't be surprised if I defend myself.

Defend yourself. It's an exchange of views on the internet. Thesis going well, I take it??

graeme_s-2

smithy21 wrote:

Defend yourself. It's an exchange of views on the internet. Thesis going well, I take it??

It seems unfair to allow this battle of wits to continue given ATC's opponent is so obviously unarmed.

dish_dash

So... Cav's finished.

Is Sagan finished?

joey54321

dish_dash wrote:

joey54321 wrote:

Cav clearly as much at fault as Sagan was. It was a racing incident with no intention or malice behind it.

If anyone should have been sent home it's Demare but, you know, French rider in a French race with a French race jury and an opportunity to send home the biggest threat that French rider has to the Green Jersey.

Jury isn't French. The head of the jury is Belgian.

I'm not gonna let facts stand in my way!

smithy21

Graeme_S wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Defend yourself. It's an exchange of views on the internet. Thesis going well, I take it??

It seems unfair to allow this battle of wits to continue given ATC's opponent is so obviously unarmed.

Sit down Graeme. I don't think ATC needs any white knighting.

dish_dash

smithy21 wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Defend yourself. It's an exchange of views on the internet. Thesis going well, I take it??

It seems unfair to allow this battle of wits to continue given ATC's opponent is so obviously unarmed.

Sit down Graeme. I don't think ATC needs any white knighting.

:?

Were you going for definition 1, 2, or 3?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0knighting

smithy21

dish_dash wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Defend yourself. It's an exchange of views on the internet. Thesis going well, I take it??

It seems unfair to allow this battle of wits to continue given ATC's opponent is so obviously unarmed.

Sit down Graeme. I don't think ATC needs any white knighting.

:?

Were you going for definition 1, 2, or 3?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0knighting

Well that is educational

KnightOfTheLongTights

Pross wrote:

joey54321 wrote:

Cav clearly as much at fault as Sagan was. It was a racing incident with no intention or malice behind it.

If anyone should have been sent home it's Demare but, you know, French rider in a French race with a French race jury and an opportunity to send home the biggest threat that French rider has to the Green Jersey.

Yep, the way he rode in a straight line at high speed through a gap that was (on the overhead) big enough for the proverbial bus at the time he started and then failed to bunny hop the barrier was completely reckless and at least on a par with veering several metres off line and then throwing out an elbow.

The revisionism that goes on after incidents like this is incredible with people taking individual image captures etc. to prove their point. The only way to see this incident clearly is by watching at least the final 500m on the overhead shot.

hehe, spot on Pross

No_Ta_Doctor

smithy21 wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Defend yourself. It's an exchange of views on the internet. Thesis going well, I take it??

It seems unfair to allow this battle of wits to continue given ATC's opponent is so obviously unarmed.

Sit down Graeme. I don't think ATC needs any white knighting.

Well you've got something right at last.

As for the actual debate, a few points:
1) Whether DQs act as a deterrent to poor sprinting behaviour is a fairly minor point and of little interest
2) You've offered no contributory evidence for your minority view that they don't
3) Others have offered supporting evidence for the opposite view
4) You seem to be taking this rather personally
5) It's not a good look.

above_the_cows

smithy21 wrote:

Thesis going well, I take it??

No I had to give it a fail, and like the decision of the Race Jury the decision is final.