snap general election?

pblakeney

If the Tories implement the Labour manifesto, then who really won the election?

FocusZing

Exactly, it's a fvck1ng joke.

surrey_commuter

does anybody else remember the good old days when politicians used to pump money into the economy so that they could call an election in which they promised the earth and then after winning a thumping majority apologised and cut everything in sight.

rick_chasey

Bloody Clegg....

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Bloody Clegg....

Where does the other £30k come from?

rick_chasey

Cost of living I believe.

Or other children?

pblakeney

There was a study done on degree v promotion in Canada in the late '80s. Their conclusion?
There was no financial benefit in studying to getting a degree compared to starting off at a lower level and slowly getting promoted to the same level.
There was obviously a crossover at PHD level and above.
Wonder how that compares to here, today?

kingstongraham

Daniel Finkelstein article yesterday putting the case for fees.

No, it is not true that fewer working-class young people are now applying to university. In fact, the opposite is the case. There are record numbers of young people going to university and the share of those students who are from disadvantaged neighbourhoods has risen. It was 9.6 per cent in 2009-10 and 11.3 per cent in 2015-16. In 2006, only 12.2 per cent of 18-year-olds who had been eligible for free school meals applied for university. In 2017 that figure was 22.5 per cent.

In other words, since tuition fees started more students are applying to university, more are going and more of those who are going are from disadvantaged backgrounds.

This isn’t that surprising. In a tuition fee system, more of the cost falls on the individual student. So they must make a judgment for themselves as to whether attending university is likely to be worth the money it costs them. And when, in 2007, Price Waterhouse Coopers assessed the value to graduates of a university degree they concluded that the financial benefit of completing a degree was greatest for those who came from families with lower levels of income.

The average debt of student borrowers is £51,000. If and when a graduate starts earning above £21,000 they pay back 9 per cent of any additional income, and any remaining debt is written off after 30 years. The result is that, on average, the state forgives about £18,000 of the loan. The state and the students are sharing the cost of fees. Modelling by the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggest that we lend £11 billion but should only expect to get £6.5 billion of it back.

By the way, this is a second reason why the current system is egalitarian. Those who pay back the largest portion of the loan are those who earn most. Those who end up on lower incomes are subsidised more.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Cost of living I believe.

Or other children?

This is what I do not get... how can they borrow £10k a year for living costs that is tax free so add in another several thousand pounds of earned income and they will have more net income than people on £25k a year

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Cost of living I believe.

Or other children?

This is what I do not get... how can they borrow £10k a year for living costs that is tax free so add in another several thousand pounds of earned income and they will have more net income than people on £25k a year

Eh? Supposing they borrow £10K per year to live on. The equivalent for earned income will be barely different as they will be below the tax threshold (and wouldn't qualify for any WTC). Earnings on the side depend very much on the course. Some will have plenty of free time. Others will be limited to just working in the holidays, so nowhere near £25K income.

Lookyhere

Student mtce loans are based on parental income, you d only get this 11k IF your parents earnt little and you were studying away from home in London, it would nt go far.
Pay back interest is 3% plus RPI, also 9% of total income to be paid once earning are above 22k, add in student fees and perhaps students need to think long and hard before embarking on uni.

bobmcstuff

Lookyhere wrote:

Student mtce loans are based on parental income, you d only get this 11k IF your parents earnt little and you were studying away from home in London, it would nt go far.
Pay back interest is 3% plus RPI, also 9% of total income to be paid once earning are above 22k, add in student fees and perhaps students need to think long and hard before embarking on uni.

My maintenance loan was only about £3k/yr (same as my tuition fees, graduated 2010), and it didn't even cover my accommodation costs. My girlfriend's was a bit more, about £5k I think, because she came from a poorer family, but still I don't think most students are going to be living the high life off their maintenance loans.

I fully expect that £11k a year would be a difficult amount in London, what with accommodation prices being very high.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Cost of living I believe.

Or other children?

This is what I do not get... how can they borrow £10k a year for living costs that is tax free so add in another several thousand pounds of earned income and they will have more net income than people on £25k a year

Eh? Supposing they borrow £10K per year to live on. The equivalent for earned income will be barely different as they will be below the tax threshold (and wouldn't qualify for any WTC). Earnings on the side depend very much on the course. Some will have plenty of free time. Others will be limited to just working in the holidays, so nowhere near £25K income.

I was netting down the chap on £25k and assuming the student was working full time in the holidays plus casual work in term time.

rick_chasey

Not a chance I'd have gotten a first had I earned money during term time.

bobmcstuff

Rick Chasey wrote:

Not a chance I'd have gotten a first had I earned money during term time.

That's my excuse for only getting a 2:1 then

rick_chasey

Knives are out for Hammond.

3 different unflattering front page stories tomorrow morning.

rjsterry

All about Brexit or just others manoeuvring to make sure he doesn't become May's replacement? Or both?

bianchimoon

hard brexiteers plotting to take over the party

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

All about Brexit or just others manoeuvring to make sure he doesn't become May's replacement? Or both?

Both.

bianchimoon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Knives are out for Hammond.

3 different unflattering front page stories tomorrow morning.

the snide, sneaky, dark hand of Mr Gove at work i have no doubt!

Stevo_666

Of course there are no such machinations like that going on in the Labour party and all is sweetness and harmony there

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Of course there are no such machinations like that going on in the Labour party and all is sweetness and harmony there

Well now that the PLP is on notice that they'll be deselected if they stray from the one true path (or point out that Corbyn is full of s*** on Brexit), I guess their options are limited. I can't for the life of me fathom the logic that places party members views over the actual electorate.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Of course there are no such machinations like that going on in the Labour party and all is sweetness and harmony there

No, that's a f*cking sh!t show too, for different reasons.

tailwindhome

TailWindHome wrote:

There are few things that the DUP want which would be within the gift of the Conservative Government to provide

Money

Money to insulate Northern Ireland from the disastrous effects of the Brexit vote they supported, without the need for Northern Ireland to have any sort of special status which would separate it from the rest of the UK

A guarantee that the British Government will block a border poll

Something to give the supporters with regard to investigation into possible crimes by British troops/Security forces

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42058901

Mr Adams, the outgoing Sinn Féin leader, said he understood a new section had been added to the 2014 Stormont House Agreement and that it was "about an amnesty for British crown forces" - the term republicans to describe the Army and police.
"That is an act of bad faith, we weren't told this, we understand the Irish government weren't told this," Mr Adams said.
"So how on earth can a British prime minister hope to persuade anybody that there's a possibility of a new dispensation emerging when she takes up this position and her secretary of state takes up this position also?"